Secondary Tensioner Symptoms but Look Fine

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Gator1

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I cold started up my 2000 LS V8 with 170K and it ran like the timing chain had skipped a link, which means barely, almost no power. After researching here, I thought I had a secondary tensioner problem but when I took off the valve covers, the flats lined up perfectly on both sides and, amazingly, the tensioners look perfect and have never been replaced. While it's opened up I'm going to replace them anyway with the upgraded version. Valvetrain looks super clean too, almost no varnish. BTW, that driver-side cover is a pain for an amateur!

Here is my question: Several of the spark plug recesses were full of oil. I was shocked it ran at all but it was running perfectly, even with the spark plugs and coils literally in an oil bath on both sides of the engine. Oil was dripping from the coils as I removed them but why would the symptoms come on so suddenly? It ran perfectly the night before on a 200 mile jaunt.

It probably goes without saying that I'll be installing new plugs, coils, and gaskets along with the tensioners, but is there anything else I should look at while its open? Any thoughts or advice from the experts here? Do you think the oil in the spark plug recess was my problem even though it ran perfectly the night before?

Thanks.
 
I think that sometimes people think their car is running perfectly, when it really isn't. Random minor misfires from marginal coils can be hard to tell sometimes. It could be that once you get done replacing the coils and plugs (and gaskets and tensioners) you'll find that it runs better than you can remember it ever running.

Alternately, you may have a brittle PCV vacuum line that has just opened up somewhere, a failing fuel pump, or some other issue.
 
Okay

Thanks Joe,

I'll give it a go and see how it goes. Though I'm sure it's documented somewhere I have been unable to find the torque values for the valve covers and for the camshaft bolts since I'll be needing to remove them to swap tensioners. Can anyone help me with those numbers?

I have read here that the camshaft bolts are position dependent so will mark them and their orientation before removing.

Thanks.
 
Gator1 said:
Thanks Joe,

I'll give it a go and see how it goes. Though I'm sure it's documented somewhere I have been unable to find the torque values for the valve covers and for the camshaft bolts since I'll be needing to remove them to swap tensioners. Can anyone help me with those numbers?

I have read here that the camshaft bolts are position dependent so will mark them and their orientation before removing.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Look here.
 
Keep in mind, that's the Shop manual for the second Gen LS's,
you have a first Gen. Not all is the same.
 
Thanks BigRigLS:

I've owned this rig since new, January of 2000, and have been lurking here for a very long time, I just haven't often needed to ask too many new questions with all of the info cataloged in the archives. Still, I'm aware of the gen 1 and gen II distinction (wish I would have waited for gen II) but it's been a fine car. Any vehicle that gives a good 170K before a disabling breakdown need make no apology. The original battery on this car lasted for almost 13 years. Unbelievable.

To my mind, the only two pieces of information that I'll be pulling from the '06 manual for this job are:

1) torque values and tightening procedure for the camshaft bolts
2) torque values for the valve cover bolts

If you're aware that these have changed from gen 1 to gen II, please let me know.

All the best,
 
Gator1 said:
Thanks BigRigLS:

I've owned this rig since new, January of 2000, and have been lurking here for a very long time, I just haven't often needed to ask too many new questions with all of the info cataloged in the archives. Still, I'm aware of the gen 1 and gen II distinction (wish I would have waited for gen II) but it's been a fine car. Any vehicle that gives a good 170K before a disabling breakdown need make no apology. The original battery on this car lasted for almost 13 years. Unbelievable.

To my mind, the only two pieces of information that I'll be pulling from the '06 manual for this job are:

1) torque values and tightening procedure for the camshaft bolts
2) torque values for the valve cover bolts

If you're aware that these have changed from gen 1 to gen II, please let me know.

All the best,
Click to expand...

From Alldata
Valve cover bolts 89 in.lb

Camshaft Bearing Cap Bolts Stage 1 Hand Tighten
Stage 2 6 Nm (53 in.lb)
Stage 3 Additional 90 degrees

Left side is in the left....

LH CAM sequence.gif


RH CAM sequence.gif
 
PVC Pipe to the Rescure

Perfect. That is very helpful LS4me. Thank you.

Several of my spark plug access cylinders (is that what they're called? The hole where you access the spark plugs.) were half full of oil and had to be cleaned before removing the plugs or when I changed the spark plugs the oil would drain into the engine in quantities that I thought might be damaging upon startup.

I tried towels but it was taking forever and I couldn't get it all so I cut a piece of 1/2" PVC pipe a little bit longer than the length of the cylinder, attached a 90 degree connector on the end of it, and attached that to an old shop vac. The pipe slides right down over the spark plug and clears out the oil fast. I then took a cotton 12 ga cotton shotgun cleaner to swab out any debris that might be along the walls, hit it one more time with the vacuum, and they're as clean as new.

I can post pictures if anyone is interested or if my description is insufficiently clear.
 
Simple Tool to Clean Spark Plug Wells

Just some pics to show the simple tool I made to clean the oil out of my spark plug wells. It's just 1/2" PVC pipe, cut to about 6", and hooked to a shop vac.

P2100849.jpg


P2100850.jpg


P2100851.jpg
 
How did your secondary timing chain tensioners look ?

Hard to see from the pic but kudos to you for tearing into it like that.

I appreciate these type of threads as I know I'll eventually have to get into my 2001 and replace them, no leaking VCG's for me just yet.
 
LS4me said:
Camshaft Bearing Cap Bolts

Stage 1
Hand Tighten​
Stage 2
6 Nm (53 in.lb)​
Stage 3
Additional 90 degrees​
Click to expand...


Really appreciate this info, strange how they want it tightened down to 53 in.lb,
then cranked further an additional 90 degree without measurement.

I guess in a sense to get all the Bearing Caps to sit even on the Cam @ 53 in.lb,
then further tighten to secure.

Would have thought they would suggest a final torque on Stage 3 though.
 
BigRigLS said:
How did your secondary timing chain tensioners look ?

Hard to see from the pic but kudos to you for tearing into it like that.

I appreciate these type of threads as I know I'll eventually have to get into my 2001 and replace them, no leaking VCG's for me just yet.
Click to expand...

The tensioners look to be in perfect condition and I know them to be original. I am going to replace them while it's apart since it's such a pain to get access, at least on the driver's side. (Make sure you have a swivel in your socket set and several different extensions.)

Given how it was running when I tore into it, I will likely have other problems to deal with once it's back together. But I feared the worst when it went from running well when I shut it off the night before to barely (and I do mean barely) running upon cold start the next morning. From Joe's comments I may be looking at a fuel pump, MAF, or other once it's back together. Still, it's very good news that my timing didn't jump a few teeth and ruin the engine. It's an old car now, not worth much and no longer my daily driver, but it has been a reliable machine and one that I still enjoy driving.
 
Good to hear and I can see by the pics you're enjoying working on it.
Best of luck, hope it goes back together easy for you and not much further probs getting it back up and running nicely.

+1
 
Tensioners Installed

By way of update, I did get the new tensioners installed yesterday using the cam removal method. A few minor points of interest for those contemplating this job:

1) Though they did not fail, the tensioners were both cracked, not visible until removal. Of course I don't know how many more miles I'd have gotten before complete failure, but they were going to fail. If anyone ever replaces the valve cover gaskets, you might as well change the tensioners while it's opened up (if they are the original design) as it's not that much more work.

2) I bought the tensioners from Christophers. He lists them on ebay too at the same price but offers free shipping on ebay, saving $10.

3) The Fel-Pro gaskets were much cheaper than Ford's and look to be of high quality. I guess I'll see. I do have a question: There is one small gasket in the kit, 1/4" in outside diameter that I cannot find the point of install. Did Fel-Pro include this gasket merely to have me pulling out my hair or to make me look ignorant on a public board instead?

4) The secondary tensioners can separate upon removal so take care that the bottom section doesn't fall into your engine. (I had stuffed towels in the openings to keep anything from falling.)

5) It's possible to rotate the engine such that all valves are closed, making the removal and reinstall of the camshaft much easier.
 
Back on the Road

Just by way of status for those attempting this job, we had a warm enough day this past Saturday to button things back up and, I'm both happy and relieved to report, it fired up immediately and ran perfectly.

The left side (driver's side) truly is a pain, just no room to work, especially some of the back bolts on the valve-cover gasket but it can be done. Just have an inventory of extensions of various lengths and a u-joint.

Thanks again to those who answered my questions.
 
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