Remote start question

I really don't think it would make that much difference if you held the lock button and rolled up the windows with a childs arm in the way VS the same parent not paying attention and rolling the windows up with their childs arm in the way from the drivers seat window switches (which as silly as it sounds, my mother has done to me... more than once...)


either way, the motors current sensing auto reverse feature will still do its job the same way.

it is a shame that our legal system has devolved into its current state of affairs. I dont know when exactly we thought it would be a good ideal to go after companies building good products becase people are not paying attention to what the hell we are doing, now we have bred a society where no one ever pays attention to anything and are hungry to go after any company they car instead of working for their dollar... (sh!t, I better step off of this damn soap box now...)




I will tell you one thing, having my viper roll the windows up has been a real lifesaver many times when the car is left with the windows down and it unexpectedly starts raining.
 
Be that as it may, but in the first case Ford would lose the lawsuit (WHAT..... NO safety stop?????? Judgment plaintiff!!)

When law schools started cranking out lawyers for the ACLU!!
 
LS4me said:
Be that as it may, but in the first case Ford would lose the lawsuit (WHAT..... NO safety stop?????? Judgment plaintiff!!)
Click to expand...

but there is a safety stop, with automatic reverse...
 
ahhh yes, I forget that 1st gen didn't have express up windows.
 
I assume you can't just swap DDMs, right? I'm guessing that even without wiring issues, PATS would pose a problem since the door key pad is tied into it. I also know I'd need new switches to get the express "buttons" in the regular rockers
 
LSFrank said:
I assume you can't just swap DDMs, right? I'm guessing that even without wiring issues, PATS would pose a problem since the door key pad is tied into it. I also know I'd need new switches to get the express "buttons" in the regular rockers
Click to expand...

Correct. The computer protocol is different between generations.
 
LSFrank said:
I assume you can't just swap DDMs, right? I'm guessing that even without wiring issues, PATS would pose a problem since the door key pad is tied into it. I also know I'd need new switches to get the express "buttons" in the regular rockers
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure the auto-up feature is in the "smart motor" that the gen II front windows use.
 
joegr said:
I'm pretty sure the auto-up feature is in the "smart motor" that the gen II front windows use.
Click to expand...

Is the express triggered by pressing the button into an extra notch or pressing it for a short enough time? Or even press it for a long enough time?
 
LSFrank said:
Is the express triggered by pressing the button into an extra notch or pressing it for a short enough time? Or even press it for a long enough time?
Click to expand...

I'll try to look at the wiring diagrams later to confirm, but I do believe that it is pressing the button an extra notch. This is from the way it works for me, and from the service manual.

Principles Of Operation

One-Touch Down/Up Window

The one-touch down feature can be activated by pressing either front window control switch to the second down position. This allows either front door window glass to move downward until it is fully lowered. Momentarily pressing the front window control switch while the window is moving downward stops the front door window glass and restores proportional down operation. The one-touch up feature can be activated and operated in the same manner by pressing the window control switch to the second up position.

Door Window Glass

The bottom of the door window glass is mounted on a slider bracket which is part of the door window regulator. Door window glass bracket spacers provide attachment points for the door window glass and prevent direct contact between the slider bracket and the door window glass.

Window Control Switch

The driver window control switch can be used to power any or all of the windows. A single window control switch is located on all passenger door armrests to activate that individual window only. The driver window control switch sends a voltage signal directly to the smart motors for operation of the front window motors in the commanded direction. The driver window control switch sends a voltage signal to the driver door module (DDM). When rear window motor operation is requested, the DDM sends a message over the standard corporate protocol (SCP) network to the rear electronic module (REM). The REM operates the rear window motors in the commanded direction.

Window Motor

NOTE: The front window motors require initialization. Refer to Door Window Motor Initialization in this section.

New front and rear window motors are installed separately. The front window motors are "smart" window motors, meaning they have the one-touch up/down features. The rear window motors have no one-touch up or down operation, only proportional up/down operation.

Front Electronic Module (FEM) and Rear Electronic Module (REM)

The FEM receives inputs and delivers outputs to a majority of the electronically controlled features which reside primarily in the front of the vehicle, including the RH power window. The REM receives inputs and delivers outputs to a majority of the electronically controlled features which reside primarily in the rear of the vehicle, including the rear power windows. The FEM and REM are configurable modules and must be correctly configured to the vehicle. The modules may also be configured to allow additional features or functions to be added to the vehicle. The FEM and REM do not have any optional window control configurations.

Driver Door Module (DDM)

The DDM receives inputs from the remote keyless entry (RKE) transmitter and hardwired components such as the LH front window control switch and delivers outputs in the form of SCP network messages and hardwired component control, including control of the LF and RF power window and roof opening panel (if equipped) during the global open/close feature. The DDM is a configurable module and must be correctly configured to the vehicle. The DDM may also be configured to allow additional features or functions to be added to the vehicle. The only DDM window feature that can be optionally configured is the window global open and close feature.

Global Open/Close

The global open/close feature is controlled by the DDM. The global open feature involves the DDM either receiving a signal from the door lock cylinder being held in the UNLOCK position for 2 seconds or the DDM receiving a signal from an RKE transmitter (when the customer holds the UNLOCK button on the transmitter for 2 seconds to activate the feature) and sending a voltage signal to the LH front, RH front smart window motors and the smart roof opening panel motor (if equipped). The smart window motors and smart roof opening panel motor carry out a global open (simultaneous opening of the front windows and roof opening panel). Pressing any button on the RKE transmitter, or actuating the door lock cylinder to the UNLOCK or LOCK position interrupts the global open function.

The global close feature can only be accomplished with the key in the door lock cylinder. The key must hold the door lock cylinder to the LOCK position for 2 seconds, at which time the DDM receives the door lock cylinder signal and sends a global close signal to the smart window motor and the smart roof opening panel motors. The smart motors then carry out a global close (simultaneous closing of the front windows and roof opening panel) function. The global close function can be terminated in the same manner as the global open function.

Module Inputs and Outputs

This system is unique in that many of the inputs that the FEM, REM and DDM receive are over the SCP communication network. These input messages come from other modules connected to the network. The FEM, REM and DDM interpret the inputs then command the correct output that was requested. The modules also receive inputs which come from components directly hardwired to the modules, such as the window control switches.

One type of output the modules provide is over the SCP communication network in the form of messages. These types of outputs are usually generated from a module monitoring a hardwired input and sending a status message to another module. These outputs are commonly required by other modules to carry out their functions. The second type of output is the control of a component directly hardwired to the module.

Passenger Window Power Supply

The REM controls the power supply to all 3 passenger window control switches. To protect the REM from a potential failure, the REM removes voltage from the common passenger window power supply when a short to ground is sensed in any passenger window control switch, associated circuitry or the power output circuit of the REM. Power is restored to the power output circuit upon a cycling of the ignition switch. If the REM output circuit is shorted to ground, the REM immediately removes voltage from the common power supply circuit. If any passenger window control switches or their associated circuits are shorted to ground, the power remains on the REM output circuit until the switch or circuit containing the short to ground is activated.

Passenger Window Lock-Out

The LH front window control switch incorporates a passenger window lock-out switch. Activating the passenger window lock-out switch sends a separate voltage signal to the DDM. The DDM then outputs a message to the REM. The REM removes voltage to the passenger window control switches. Passenger window operation is allowed from only the LH front window control switch, or until the passenger window lock-out switch is turned off.

Passenger Front Power Window

The passenger front power window is controlled by input signals from the LH front window control switch or the RH front window control switch. The REM powers the RH front window control switch, which sends a voltage signal (when activated by the passenger) to the RH front window smart motor. The window motor raises or lowers (proportionally or one-touch, depending on the command) the window according to the command signal from the RH front window control switch. The DDM powers the LH front window control switch so it may send a voltage signal (when activated by the driver) to the RH front window smart motor.

LH Rear and RH Rear Power Windows

The LH rear and RH rear power windows are controlled by the REM. Operating commands for the rear power windows are received from the LH front window control switch over the SCP network from the DDM, or directly from the LH rear or RH rear window control switches, which are hardwired to the REM.

Activating the LH rear or RH rear switch on the LH front window control switch causes the DDM to send a message to the REM over the SCP network. The REM then controls voltage and ground to the appropriate window motor to raise or lower the window.

Activating either the LH rear or RH rear window control switch sends a voltage signal to the REM. The REM controls voltage and ground to the appropriate window motor to raise or lower the window. A voltage signal is only received if the window lockout is OFF and the REM is supplying voltage to the rear window control switch voltage circuit. The rear window motors are not smart motors and have only proportional mode operation with no one-touch operation.

 
Thank you. It seems Ford switched to the double-button somewhere around 2000, but that could just be anecdotal. Of my 97, 02, 03, 10, and 14 FLMs, only the 97 is time-based. Any chance a smart motor could be fitted in a Gen 1? That would seem like most of the battle if the motor gets a separate express signal.
 
LSFrank said:
... Any chance a smart motor could be fitted in a Gen 1? That would seem like most of the battle if the motor gets a separate express signal.
Click to expand...

I would think that with enough time and/or money almost anything could be done. (It may not take much of either, I don't know.) I suspect that you would have to use a gen II window regulator. I don't know if that would just bolt in or not. I guess that in the worst possible case, you could swap out the whole door. Of course either way, you will be doing some custom wiring.
 
I think it would be much easier (and cheaper) to use a viper/directed window module to just add the functionality to what you already have VS hoping that swapping some of the cars electronics will work...

DEI 529T
 
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