raced a civic in my mark

[poniesviii]

I hear those NASCAR stickers are good for 100HP a side.

:lol:

:lol: :shifty:

 

[Dr. Paul]

If a car A is quicker to 60 but car B runs the 1/4 in less time and traps higher... which one is quicker Paul?

In general, if a car is quicker to 60, it will be quicker through 1320 feet.

If a car traps higher than another, it is faster, not quicker.

 

[MediumD]

In general perhaps, always.. no. As for quicker vs faster, do you see the word AND between runs the 1/4 in less time AND traps higher? I guess that would make it quicker AND faster?

 

[poniesviii]

In general, if a car is quicker to 60, it will be quicker through 1320 feet.

If a car traps higher than another, it is faster, not quicker.

It means car A is quicker to 60 than car B and car B is quicker through the 1320 than car A.

There's no wrong answer to the question. If you're asking which one's quicker through the quarter in that case it would be car B.

If a car traps higher than the other it means with a better driver and better traction it's likely quicker, even though in that case it wasn't. When you're talking about the quarter mile it's all about quickness, not who's faster. That's what the salt flats are for.

And, if a car has a higher trap speed than the other but the other made it there first it's faster. And quicker. Lol. Not really faster but it's an interesting subject, ..faster, vs quicker.

 

[vr4]

wow this thread got heated.


the NEWEST civic Si is a completly different car than all previous versions. its actually halfway decent for a stock honda.

264 HP out of an OEM stock turbo 2.3 is pretty damn good.

yes mark 8s run 14s stock. the 1s in great shape and with good conditions. (mine did 14.666 with me driving and 14.665 with my GF driving it the next month.)

AWDs DO have torque steer. at least my stealth and both of my 3000gt VR4s did/do. some are much more pronounced than others.

stock for stock marks are for the most part quicker than an LS. i smoked a couple over here pretty good. the new LS is quite a bit more impressive than the early 1s though.

 

[Calabrio]

Calabrio you won't even acknowledge that a Mark VIII can run 14s stock... I can't argue with someone who won't acknowledge something that's been proven over and over again.]/quote]
Does your run stock 14s? Do most? And are most of those cars that did it in 1993 still doing it 14 years later?

Are there some that may? It's possible. I've seen claims. Do most. No. So, when we look at these cars, do we look at the few cars at the small end of a bell curve, or do we use the majority of them in the middle for our baseline?

To compare the best case example of one to the median one of another is unfair. But with that said, even if we determine that every stock Mark VIII ran 14.9s- it doesn't change anything. That ties it with the Motor Trend numbers of the Civic Si, it's still .6 slower than the speed3, and using that figure it just barely makes it faster than a Toyota Camry.

So, I fail to see why you are making this an issue.

The only one of the cars you listed that's definitely appreciably faster than the VIII is the Mazdaspeed 3.

The Civic SI is NOT,

The 2.0 liter four cylinder is not "appreciably faster in a straight line. This is your big point? So, it's just " a little faster" in a straight line, and then corners, stops, and has better build quality.

the Camry is NOT. Unless you think Mark VIIIs are incapable of anything better than low-mid 15s, it all goes back to you underestimating the Mark VIII.

Even pretending most Mark VIIIs run a 14.9, which they don't.

Even according to lore, only the 93-96s had the chance of doing that. The 97-98s never broke into the 14s stock. So, if you want to compare the small part of the bell curve again, fine. End result, again, is about the same performance to the 1/4 mile, and the other figures still give the 6 cylinder Camry the advantage.

So, after all your huffing and puffing, you're basically just finding more ways to state that "those cars aren't much faster."

As far as cars in/near it's class, yep they're generally faster now as well they should be.

Yes.

As for the sport compact crowd, a few of them are faster, some of them are similar, some of them are slower - they're supposed to be sporty anyway so they should ALL be faster. The family cars and econoboxes are still, with very few exceptions, slower than the Mark VIII.

You're very wordy, but you're just agreeing with everything I said.
Many of the good sport compacts are now faster than the Mark VIII.
And there are still cars slower than it.

What are you taking issue with? In 1993, there really wasn't much on the road, stock, that could take the Mark VIII. Nowadays, the industry and technology have advanced and even some of the little cars will outrun it.

Here's the thing about the Mazdaspeed 3. You were trying to make it look like "gee look, this mazda makes almost as much power as a Mark VIII out of a engine half the size." You neglected to mention it had a turbo. You were trying to make it out to be way more impressive than it was.

You're projecting alot more on my statement than I ever did. I don't care how it makes the power. Turbo, supercharger, or VTEC- it doesn't need to be explained. The point is, it's a compact, hatchback, that makes about 260 horsepower and blazes through the performance benchmarks. Turbo or not.

I'm only talking about straight line racing. Handling is nice, but it's pretty much impossible to compare car handling to other car people. You can't say "I did the standard autocross course in 39 seconds" or whatever, because there IS no standard course, whereas you can easily say "I run the 1/4 in 13.4."

This might be relevant if we were comparing cars that were competitive. No one in their right mind thinks the 8 will handle better than any of the other cars mentioned.

And there are issues like grip, figure 8 times, and the such can be used in a pinch.

People race stoplight to stoplight WAY more than they race around curves, it's safer, there's less room for excuses, and there are way more straight roads here than curvy ones. So I personally think handling is nice but not as important than straight line acceleration. If you want handling none of these cars handle really well anyway.

They race stoplight because it's easier.

Handling is what driving is about.

And if you want handling, both the speed3 and the Si are excellent.

I could also give less of a crap about MPG,

this isn't about you.

Of course driller isn't in the 12s, he's going the N/A route which is much, much harder. I don't know how many 150 shots a 145k Mark will take either, but heck if you're comparing it to a $21k Civic SI you can either find a VERY low mileage Mark or rebuild the entire drivetrain twice over.

You mean compared the the $40k cost of the new Mark VIII?

So you rail on about the Mark VIII being a slow POS that handles like a pig runs 15s and you say that? You're SO full of it.

I've owned my Mark VIII longer than you, I've driven it more than you probably have, and I've done a considerable amount of work on it, so I'm intimately familiar with it.

Your reading comprehension is terrible. You also lack the ability to discuss something without intensely personalizing.

I've have stated, repeatedly, the Mark VIII is STILL a car that has respectable performance. This is a testament to how impressive it was when it came out, that despite time, it still is competitive.

But, it does handle like a bit of a pig, despite the bigger tires and sway bars on mine.

I'm not defending the Mark VIII as gods gift to performance, like I said I'm just saying not every pos an asian car maker puts out on the market is going to beat it.

Who said that? Did you read, or just defensively and ignorantly respond in fits of passion?

The point is, many of the small imports are faster now. That wasn't the case 14 years ago.

It's funny how you exaggerate a situation to the point of making an ass of yourself.

You're the wordy guy who has, despite your intention, reinforced my arguments. Frankly, you're not even arguing at this point, you're just defensive.

 

[J3FF]

Hold on a minute! Who on this forum would prefer a fiberglass pos with an engine smaller than a half gallon of milk, rather than a MArk VIII?? I wouldn't drive a Civic...EVER. Those...(is it safe to say vehicles?) are too hyped up to be something they aren't. I sware, when I opened the hood of a civic for the first time, I thought it looked just like something out of my Zip Zap RC cars..

 

[Calabrio]

If a car A is quicker to 60 but car B runs the 1/4 in less time and traps higher... which one is quicker Paul?

Bringing this up, in this thread, is still foolish, given that all the cars I listed were faster both in 0-60 AND 1/4mile....AND passing.

2007 Toyota Camry
January 2007 Motor Trend (COTY)
0-60: 6.0
1/4: 14.5 @ 97.5 mph
passing 45-65: 2.9 sec

2006 Civic Si
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_0606_midsize_coupe_comparision/specs_pricing.html
0-60: 6.3
1/4: 14.9 @ 94.7 mph
passing 45-65: 3.4 seconds.

2007 MazdaSpeed 3 Grand Touring
11/2006 Motor Trend
0-60: 5.9
1/4: 14.3 @ 99.4
passing 45-65: 2.8

Lincoln Mark VIII
0-60: 6.9
1/4: 15.2 at 95.5 mph
passing 45-65: 3.7


But, clearly, these numbers are never exact, ever refrence will be a little different. Here's another review of the Mark VIII:

 

[MediumD]

Are there some that may? It's possible. I've seen claims. Do most. No. So, when we look at these cars, do we look at the few cars at the small end of a bell curve, or do we use the majority of them in the middle for our baseline?

To compare the best case example of one to the median one of another is unfair. But with that said, even if we determine that every stock Mark VIII ran 14.9s- it doesn't change anything. That ties it with the Motor Trend numbers of the Civic Si, it's still .6 slower than the speed3, and using that figure it just barely makes it faster than a Toyota Camry.

So, I fail to see why you are making this an issue.

I made it an issue because you said it was slower than the SI and Camry, and it isn't.

So, after all your huffing and puffing, you're basically just finding more ways to state that "those cars aren't much faster."

That's all I've been trying to say since the start (although in 2 cases I'd say "those cars aren't any faster".)

You're very wordy, but you're just agreeing with everything I said.
Many of the good sport compacts are now faster than the Mark VIII.
And there are still cars slower than it.

Ok, I'm not taking issue with that. Some of the sport compacts are faster, some aren't. Family cars like the Camry is one thing I'm taking issue with, where the majority are still slower. The big thing I'm taking issue with is that now is the perfect time to START thinking about racing Mark VIIIs, it's still quite the sleeper because even today few people know what's under the hood, the price of the cars are low, and the performance possibilities are high. It's not time to throw in the towel because sport compacts have finally caught up.

Handling is what driving is about.

We were talking about acceleration. You finally admitted the Mark isn't going to lose hardcore to a friggin Camry or SI, so now you bring up handling and gas mileage.

You mean compared the the $40k cost of the new Mark VIII?

You mean I can go to the Lincoln dealer and get a new Mark VIII for 40k? You can go out and buy an SI for $21k, you can go out and buy a nice Mark VIII for $4k, today which is what matters. If you'd like to compare the Mark VIII when it cost $40k, we can compare 90s Camry/Civic/Mazdas.

And there are issues like grip, figure 8 times, and the such can be used in a pinch.

You're missing the point on this one. Figure 8 times? What city has a figure 8 track I can go to and get times? Where can the automotive enthusiast go to get some handling numbers for his/her car? Nowhere but a magazine, and once again magazine racing is worthless even for stock cars.

I've have stated, repeatedly, the Mark VIII is STILL a car that has respectable performance. This is a testament to how impressive it was when it came out, that despite time, it still is competitive.

Ignoring the insults before this quote... that's far from what you've been saying thusfar in this thread, your first posts were nothing but putting the car down.

Frankly, you're not even arguing at this point, you're just defensive.

That's all I've ever been trying to do, defend the car when you say it's a slow pos that's not worth racing.

 

[poniesviii]

If this wasn't internet and you two were talking in person you'd make good friends. lol.

 

[02LSE96LSC91SE84TC]

stock for stock marks are for the most part quicker than an LS. i smoked a couple over here pretty good. the new LS is quite a bit more impressive than the early 1s though.

Fewer LS people have tracked timed their car and the LS crowd in general doesn't race.

Gen1 MarkVIII vs. Gen2 LS even match-up. Best will run 14.6-14.8 stock and 14.99 at the worse. Bad drivers aside.

Gen2 MarkVIII vs. Gen1 LS even match up. Best will run 15.0-15.2 and 15.39 at the worse. Again bad drivers side.

The LSes above only have 2 mods each. My 02 will run below 15.0 stock IMO, I'm not removing the exhaust and intake to find out unless someone bets me.

 

[shiryu0]

why in the heck are we comparing a Mark VIII to a freaking hatch......only reason they can go fast is cause they dont weigh a thing!!!!!! compared it to something similar for crying out loud......like say, my friends '99 Solara, or my other friends '01 Prelude........and of course out of the 3 im the fastest........barely, but i win ......heavy cars w/ heavy cars........let the kids play with their RC cars in the other yard.

and if we HAVE to compare them on the street againts them......were most likely to win against a (insert favorite RC looking car model here), cause they probably wont take a Mark VIII serious........happened to me, and guess who won , now of course you got the people that know what theyre doing w/ the little toy cars, but theyre VERY few out there.........most are just ricers that think theyre fast, and dont know how to drive............



i want that JBL 10 speaker system that mag article mentions..................

 

[MonsterMark]

Gen2 MarkVIII vs. Gen1 LS even match up. Best will run 15.0-15.2 and 15.39 at the worse. Again bad drivers side.

My 02 will run below 15.0 stock IMO, I'm not removing the exhaust and intake to find out unless someone bets me.

Is Union Grove Open? Let's go and settle it.

 

[02LSE96LSC91SE84TC]

Is Union Grove Open? Let's go and settle it.

Haha. I wish they were its been so nice I've called to see. The recording says if the weather allows they'll open, I guess 40s in the end of December isn't good enough.

Hey I got my stack of timeslips and best on video......You?

http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/showthread.php?t=27765

The LS is very strong in the 1/8th 9.361@75.68 in my Gen1, the Mark does have the longer legs.

 

[MonsterMark]

Hey I got my stack of timeslips and best on video......You?

I'm busy setting my XCal2 fuel tables to 8-1 for maximum power with 50 degrees of timing to turn my badboy into a rocket ship. I'm also adjusting my shift points up to 7500 rpm and increasing line pressure in the tranny 200% so I can chirp the 3-4 shift. Put on some 5 inch skinnies front and rear to reduced the rolling resistance for a way better launch and bumped up the tire pressure to 80 psi so this baby will really be rolling at the finish line.

What else....Hummm. Oh yeh...I'm removing the exhaust manifolds from the heads (along with the rest of the exhaust to save weight) for a truly full free-breathing exhaust system. (Yes, I have the same earplugs just like the top fuel guys have.) I also taped the grill and removed the side mirrors to make the car more aero-dynamically stable. And lastly, I removed that stupid intake tube and MAF thingy that really constricts the airflow. I wish I had an air cleaner cover that I could flip upside down like I used to do in the old days.

I expect my 'mods' to add at least 150 hp so I should be trapping low 10's with a strong 1.20-60 ft.

Mackdaddy...You better be ready

 

[02LSE96LSC91SE84TC]

3-4 shift chirp huh, the tracks only 1/4mile long you'll be half way home before you hit 4th in that sled. The LSE hits 4th around 100, just after the 1/4 ends. A good wax job will help too.



LOL.

 

[mespock]

Bryan's been nipping too much Christmas Cheer again....

I bet he creamed his shorts after typing all that LOL...

 

[02LSE96LSC91SE84TC]

Quick vs. Fast

Heres a few timeslips of me racing the same car 2 different weeks. Not my best times and, Yes I did beat him a couple times, but he won the most. Good example of the discussion here. I always have the higher trap by at least 2 mph and as much as almost 3 mph, yet he won more than me. But heres a good question, WHO HIT 60 MPH FIRST?

The races were typically close enough that it was hard to tell who won till you saw your timeslip. But at the end I was always moving faster that was obvious and a few times we stayed on it being so close and I would always start pulling more and more. A race to 120 I would win every time and by probably as much as 2-3 cars. So whos faster depends on how long the race is in this case.