Political Monopoly Power

shagdrum

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Political Monopoly Power

The Federalist Papers, written by James Madison, John Jay and Alexander Hamilton, is the document most frequently referred to when trying to get a feel for the original intent of the framers of the Constitution. One such intention is found in Federalist 56 where Madison says, "...it seems to give the fullest assurance, that a representative for every thirty thousand inhabitants will render the (House of Representatives) both a safe and competent guardian of the interests which will be confided to it."

Excellent research, shows that in 1804 each representative represented about 40,000 people. Today, each representative represents close to 700,000. If we lived up to the vision of our founders, given today's population, we would have about 7,500 congressmen in the House of Representatives. It turns out that in 1929 Congress passed a bill fixing the number of representatives at 435. Prior to that, the number of congressional districts was increased every 10 years, from 1790 to 1910, except one, after a population census was taken.

We might ask what's so sacrosanct about 435 representatives? Why not 600, or 1,000, or 7,500? Here's part of the answer and, by the way, I never cease to be amazed by the insight and wisdom of our founders: James Madison, the acknowledged father of the Constitution, argued that the smaller the House of Representatives relative to the nation's population, the greater is the risk of unethical collusion. He said, "Numerous bodies ... are less subject to venality and corruption. " In a word, he saw competition in the political arena as the best means for protecting our liberties. If Madison were around today to see today's venal and corrupt Congress, he'd probably say, "See, I told you so!"

In addition to venality and corruption, restricting the number of representatives confers significant monopoly power that goes a long way toward explaining the stranglehold the two parties have and the high incumbent success rates. It might also explain the power of vested interest groups to influence congressional decisions. They only have to bribe, cajole or threaten a relatively small number of representatives. Imagine the challenge to a lobbyist, if there were 7,500 representatives, trying to get a majority of 3,813 to vote for this or that special privilege versus having to get only a 218 majority in today's Congress.

Another problem of a small number of congressmen, with large districts, has to do with representing their constituents. How in the world is one congressman to represent the diverse interests and values of 700,000 people? The practical answer is they don't and attempt to be all things to all people. Thus, a congressman who takes a principled stand against the federal government exceeding its constitutional authority -- whether it be government involvement in education, business welfare and bailouts and $2 trillion dollars worth of other handouts -- is not likely to win office.

Appealing for the votes in a district of 700,000 is a more difficult challenge than appealing for the votes in a district of 40,000 or 60,000 people. Larger sums must be raised requiring a congressman to be wealthy or raise money from vested interest groups. Who is going to give a congressman money and not expect something special in return?

One should not be optimistic about increasing the size of Congress to make it more representative of the American people. There are powerful forces that benefit from the status quo. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac lobbyists get Congress to look the other way. Hundreds of other lobbyists get Congress to rig the market, or confer special privileges, to benefit one class of Americans at the expense of another class. I guarantee you that the vested interest groups, who now have a strong grip on Washington, at the detriment of the nation's well-being, wouldn't as easily get their way if they had to scrounge for 3,813 votes as opposed to 218.
 
Term limits has never been a great answer to the problems in the house and senate. Looks good - but, actually removes your right to vote for who you want, and there is something to be said for carrots.

Plus, it would have to be an amendment - amendments move through Capitol Hill first - I don't think it would have a lot of support ;)

Williams states a problem, but no solutions. Obviously 7500 congressmen isn't the answer, we would have to pay them:p. And, although you could end up with many parties, finding coalitions to achieve majorities could be daunting, with more skank-y behind the scenes deals going on then you currently see on the hill.

And, in the end, probably even less would get done in Congress then is getting done now...

A great answer is to remove much of the federal government's power, and return it to the states. But, can we at this point, remove that much federal power? It is so wrapped around our daily lives, that we have become more of a federal republic. The framers ideal of a 'state based democracy' has in many ways disappeared.

A nation the size of the U.S., faced with the problems inherent in a 'small' world, as far as social/political/economic issues, may not be successful with the framer's ideal of state democracy. A true state based democracy could doom the United States as a global power.

So, is embracing the concept of a 'republic' more of where we should go? I don't think so - but I do think that is were we are heading.
 
VERY well stated, Fox-y! Succinct, and with nothing said that leaves any room for dissent. My congratulations!
KS
 
I am not so sure a huge amount of congressmen is a bad thing (besides paying them). The legislature is designed to go slow so as not to rush things through to make mistakes (you could point to the patriot act and/or the recent bailout, depending on your persuasion, to see the flaw in rushing things through).

Less getting done in congress is not a bad thing. People are displease with congress, but that doesn't mean they are displeased with their inaction. When the actions they take create more problems and/or magnify current ones (often, because they are dictated by special interests) then it is their actions that are the problem.

Remember the old saying; the government that governs least, governs best. A larger congress would insure that.

The chances that it will happen are slim and none though. But it is an interesting topic for discussion.
 
another concern is that with term limits, you never develop any actually statemen, who know how the system works and how to use it. You'd have hundreds or rotating "newbies" (to steal from the gamer vernacular). You wouldn't have political experts or gravitas when dealing with international matters of state.

With that said, I don't think Ted Kennedy or Joe Biden are any great asset on any of those fronts. It'd also be nice if this perpetual political aristocracy wasn't here either.

While we're at it, let's repeal the 17th amendment.
 
While we're at it, let's repeal the 17th amendment.

Calabrio, you want the senators chosen by their respective state legislative bodies again?

Doesn't this create even a deeper Republic by removing the people from the making and voting of law by yet another layer?
 
Calabrio, you want the senators chosen by their respective state legislative bodies again?

Doesn't this create even a deeper Republic by removing the people from the making and voting of law by yet another layer?

No, it strengthens the federalism.
It's late, so I'm just going to just copy someone else's argument:

Libertarian author,lawyer, and radio host Neil Boortz, February 25, 2004
I believe the argument can be made that the 17th Amendment has done more to promote the growth of federal government than any other action in our country's history. The 17th Amendment, ratified in 1913, provided for the popular election of U.S. Senators. Our original Constitution created a system whereby the people of the United States were represented in Washington by the members of the House of Representatives, while the state governments were represented by Senators. Each state legislature would appoint two people to serve staggered terms in the Senate. The people had their voice in Washington, and so did the States. Tell me, do you think that the federal government would have successfully usurped so many powers from State governments? Would the U.S. Congress have placed so many unfunded mandates on the backs of the states? Our founding fathers (the politically correct term is now "framers") felt that in times of peace 90% of all government should emanate from state and local levels, and only 5% from the federal level. The growth of the federal sector at the expense of local power can be traced back to the ratification of the 17th Amendment. Repeal it. Return the power to the local governments.
 
I thought that the federalists had it totally right at one time myself. And I think probably for the 1st hundred or so years they did have the right idea.

However, with current conditions, I don’t think that repealing the 17th would move any more power to the states. I actually think it might weaken the states at this point.

When the amendment was seriously being considered (mostly after the civil war, although it had been discussed for a few decades before the war) the federal government was becoming more powerful. It was becoming larger, in part, to build back the country after the war, and also to accommodate the huge amount of immigration that was occurring and the massive amount of expansion westward.

During this time frame the state legislative houses were also in upheaval. They too had to deal with the same problems as the feds as well as a great deal of corruption was occurring in many of them. Often that corruption was tied to the legislators so they would 'consider' supporting a 'certain' candidate to represent the state in the US Senate. Bribes were pretty commonplace.

Part of that was because the people started to vote for their state legislators increasingly for their stand on who they would vote to take the state's Senate seats in D.C. As the 19th century was closing, your state legislative vote basically became a vote for a ‘proxy’ in the US Senate. The ultimate litmus test as it were.

And the state legislators were spending increasingly more and more time out of their schedules to vote for their representatives to the US Senate. Occasionally these sessions became riotous, with people protesting outside of the capitols. (Colorado is rather famous for this – many times the police were called in to break up the protesters). Causing more delays and time away from state issues.

Because of this there were times in the latter part of the 19th century that many states didn’t have equal representation in the Senate – because they couldn’t agree on who to send. Delaware’s seats sat empty at one point for 4 years. Many states had gaps of 2 years or more. Obviously if no one is there, on the hill, your state isn't being represented at all.

So, with people voting for their legislators based on whom those legislators would move through to the US Senate, other state issues were being set aside. Basically the candidate could support the state issues that you were concerned with (public education, fire departments, lower taxes, whatever), but if they didn’t support the man you wanted to go to the US Senate, there was a pretty good chance you didn’t vote for him. I know that some states at certain points had lists of over 50 people that were on the ‘ballot’ in the state’s house and senate to move on to the US Senate – it was a mess getting consensus.

So, I certainly believe today there is a good chance that particular scenario would take place again. With as powerful and invasive as the federal government has become, I think that you might be more concerned with whom your state legislators were going to vote for to represent your state in the US Senate than with how they might vote on state issues. Therefore perhaps having the effect of weakening the effectiveness of your state government, and causing important state issues to be shelved while they battled out the question of who would go onto Washington.

Yes, it obviously has given more power to the Feds, but, unless we can turn back time, we are somewhat stuck with that much power at the federal level. I doubt at this point repealing the 17th amendment would feasibly change the power the federal government has. With how the world is today, I still think that a state based democracy could weaken the United States on the global playing field. I would rather in this case keep my state legislators working on my state issues rather than take time worrying about who they would want to send to D.C.
 

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