PATS or complete death? Solved

Lincoln Mark VIII

  1. HopefulAcres

    HopefulAcres LVC Member

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    Now what??
    Recent replacements PCM relay and the starter on the 8th, car has been running great since. This evening I went to start it and it wouldn't crank. I could hear the fuel pump and the starter so their fine. I popped the hood and checked the battery cables, they are tight and secure. Tried to start it again but the same crank no start.
    Unhooked the battery (replaced 8/18) and put a battery tester on it and it's fully charged. Put it back in the car tightened up cables and waited a few minutes. Tried to crank but nope. Dash lights dimmed and the Anti Theft light started quickly blinking and there was a clicking sound that matched the blinking. I could only get the clicking to stop by disconnecting the battery.
    I waited a few minutes. Hooked it back up and waited. Same result for thirty seconds then everything went dark and now nothing happens.
    Nothing period. No interior lights, no dash lights, no anit theft light, no crank, no clicks, no beeps just plain dead.
    So could this be a PATS problem or probably some other money sucking problem?
     
  2. germansheperd

    germansheperd Active LVC Member

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    Did you test the battery under a load? That kinda sounds like a weak battery.
     
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    • HopefulAcres

      HopefulAcres LVC Member

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      Yes.
       
    • HopefulAcres

      HopefulAcres LVC Member

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      Tried to start the car again but got the same result. This morning tyere were interior lights but one thing that is confusing is that the car wasn't locked last night but the Anti Theft light was blinking this morning. As soon as I tried to start the car the same flashing light and clicking but then quickly everything went dead and dark.
      Put the tester back on the battery without load it's at 75%, can't check with load this time because it won't even crank. I am not good with electirics and can't make sense of wiring diagrams so I am lost.
       
    • joegr

      joegr Dedicated LVC Member

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      Bad battery, 95% + likely.
      A non-loaded test doesn't show anything.
       
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      • HopefulAcres

        HopefulAcres LVC Member

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        Used the multimeter to do some testing.
        Did a No Load Battery voltage test, came up 12.66
        Did a Engine Off Current Draw test, came up 100ma.
        While still trying to figure this out I had to get something out of the car and when I open the driver door the interior lights came on. Quickly tried the key, the dash lights came on, the door open chime sounded and it tried to crank. Turned it off waited a minute and tried again, it tried to crank. Tried again, it struggled but it did start. Going to assume having the battery cables off and on while volt testing did the trick.
        HOWEVER I did a quick volt test for the alternator and it read 13.65. Couldn't test the Fuseable Link because of course it started raining and I have no garage. But by sound alone it's most likely going south and since most everything on this engine is original I am going to just buy a new alternator and see if I can get it put on some time today.
         
      • capt fast

        capt fast LVC Member

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        fuseable link warm to the touch? clean batt connectors? check power lead from batt to fuse/relay power distribution panel? no power trouble shoot tree says always start at the batt and work your way in.
         
      • 04_Sport_LS

        04_Sport_LS Dedicated LVC Member

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        Sounds like a corrosion issue. Check all your connections... including ground wire in bottom of trunk. Relay box in trunk. Starter wires at engine. Front relay box. Connection at PCM in passenger kick panel. Etc. , etc. , etc.

        Either that... or your year old battery took a dump.
         
      • 04_Sport_LS

        04_Sport_LS Dedicated LVC Member

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        If the battery light wasn't on at any time while the engine was running... it's most likely not an alternator issue.

        Your alternator was showing a volt over battery voltage. A tad low... but still within spec. I wouldn't bother with the hassle of swapping an alternator... until you know 100% it's not the battery.
         
      • heyjewel

        heyjewel Well-Known LVC Member

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        13.65v should be OK for the alternator.
         
      • HopefulAcres

        HopefulAcres LVC Member

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        Ok car ran okay for a day but during a 60 mile round trip errand the car stalled at a long light and dipped in power twice. Changed the alternator and the car is running better.
        So far so good until my mother went to drive it. She came in and told me it wouldn't start I was frustrated because I had just run it an hour earlier. Took both battery cables off for 5 minutes, reinstalled them and started the car just fine. Scratched my head then it dawned on me , KEYS! I tried my mom's key and everything shut down. Took off both batt cables for 5 minutes and tried to start again with my key and it was fine. Turned it off and tried my mom's key again and it shut down. Conclusion one key is bad. At least I now know I am not going crazy and can fix that problem easily.
         
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        • kleetus

          kleetus Well-Known LVC Member

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          You mean the PATS part of the key is dead and that's what's not allowing it to start? Interesting.

          My LS has been sitting a year plus because it started doing similar things to me... was going down the road and it just shut off (at 70 mph...) got about every imaginable light on the dash, plenty of warning beeps.. would crank but no start.... open the door close the door with the key off repeat a time or two and it would restart, but shakey... then it would be fine. went through that for 2 days then it quit and wouldn't restart at all.

          Interestingly about a month prior, the alarm would go off for no reason and eventually reset, but never failed to start.

          Replaced her with a 15 Jag XF 5.0 SC, but would like to do or get something for her as she was a fantastic car.
           
        • joegr

          joegr Dedicated LVC Member

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          PATS will never shutdown a running engine. That's a safety feature. It will only ever prevent the engine from being started. This is not a PATS problem.

          This is most often indication of severe electrical system problems. Forscan should be able to pull codes from all the modules to confirm this. Note that on the LS, PATS will prevent the starter from engaging. This is not a PATS problem.

          PATS prevents the engine from being started. It's can't make it run badly. This is likely an electrical problem or a fuel pump problem.
           
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          • kleetus

            kleetus Well-Known LVC Member

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            Makes sense, but when the gremlins run wild, who knows... Lol. Thank you for the clarification.

            I may need to pick up a copy of that. I'm sure I can use it with my 06 powerstroke as well.
             
          • capt fast

            capt fast LVC Member

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            before you pitch the pats key into a dark place try reprograming the key into pats. you will need the NGS star unit to do that, according to the info I have. you would need it to program a new key regardless, so if you need that second key...
             
          • capt fast

            capt fast LVC Member

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          • capt fast

            capt fast LVC Member

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            then again, if you have access to an NGS tester, you can check most everything thru the DLC. Ain't electronics wonderful? it's software that drives me up the alley.
            97/98 was the start of ford putting product specific codes into the PCM systems and using the communications buss and related software. it is very helpful. on my 98, only the air suspension is not on the line and has it's own test connector. light bulbs to fluid levels get codes set. it just doesn't tell you how to fix it. if you have the test gear, repairs are easy to confirm.
            I bought a HICKOK NGS to work this cars problems. It upset me that the factory won't allow access to software of legacy vehicles. OK> I will live with that and find a way around that. it's been a few years now since I had any electronics issues not counting HVAC which was in a world of its own.
            Ford products have issues with ignition switch assembly wear causing a multitude of problems. having a mess of keys hanging off the car key causes a lot of problems by wearing out the key switch assembly. you may want to look at that.
             

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