Ordered new brake stuff

[DunItRight]

I ordered my new pads and rotors, I went with the EBC line. I got the red stuff pads with the drilled and slotted rotors now all I need is someone to give me the run down on exactly what tools and what size tools I need.

I done brakes before so I have an idea on what I'm doing but I need the size of the tools the LS needs along with a link to the right tool to compress the piston back into the caliper.

I only have a hand full of tools so I wanna run out to the store and get what ever specific sizes I don't have that I would need.


Also, while Im down there I wanna paint my calipers so can anyone that had done it them self suggest a brand of caliper paint/kit to go with?

Thanks guys!

 

[eL eS]

You will need a breaker bar for the lugs, jack stand(s), 12mm and 14mm sockets and wrenches, 2" extension for the sockets, rear piston wind back tool, hunt down the ford tool check with mrzeee he is an LVC vendor, and a clamp to reset the front pistons.

You will also want to buy several packs of high temp brake grease to coat the backs of the pads, shims and clips. Now would be a good time to bleed the brakes and would spend the time doing that and save the caliper painting as a project for another weekend. I think Ken @ lskoncepts.com sells the DIY bleeder valves. They work great and allow you to bleed your brakes by yourself.

 

[DunItRight]

Cool, would have been nice if it was posted in the Tech articles seeing on how so many encouraged it:shifty:

I think I am more used to just taking off the wheel and taking off the caliper with a 10mm socket+short extension ( if I remember correctly ) and it was basically said and done from there. All I ever needed to do on other car was just that and then like I said before, use a C-clamp for the piston springs and put everything back together with the new pads and rotors. This still seems easy, those tools are very cheap!

I guess I can wait till spring to do the paint even though I doubt we will even have a winter this year in PA but, I still want to get the supplies together, so any info on that would be cool also.

 

[SoonerLS]

On the 2nd Gen LS, the caliper is bolted to the bracket with a pair of 12mm bolts, and the caliper bracket is bolted to the suspension with a pair of 15mm bolts.

You'll need a 12mm box-end wrench to do the upper caliper bolt on the front; there's no clearance for a socket. A heavier-duty ratcheting box-end wrench would be very helpful here.

A 1/2"-drive ratchet, socket, and extension will make removing the caliper bracket bolts much easier. (The longer handle and heavier body of the 1/2"-drive ratchet is the key benefit; a long-handled 3/8"-drive ratchet/breaker bar or a cheater bar on a normal 3/8"-drive ratchet/breaker bar would do the same thing.)

A pair of needle-nose pliers are needed for removing the spring steel clips/"nuts" that keep the rotors in place when the wheels are off the car. The kind with the bent nose would be very helpful.

The only special tool required is the rear caliper piston tool. I think this is the one Quik uses: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=40732 ; I use the one (a Lisle, IIRC) I gout years ago for working on my SHO's brakes. By all reports, avoid the cube-type universal tool, and stick with the disc-type (like the one at Harbor Freight linked above). A C-clamp and one of the old pads is all you need to retract the pistons on the front calipers.

If you follow the directions, you'll also need a run-out gauge. I happen to have one I got from my dad, but I don't know where you'd find one. You'll also need a torque wrench to do it right; on the 2nd Gen LSes, the caliper bracket bolts get torqued to 76 ft-lbs and the lug nuts should be torqued to 100 ft-lbs, but I don't recall the specs for the caliper bolts.

And, oh yeah, don't forget the bailing wire to suspend the caliper while you're disassembling/reassembling everything. I'd plan on this taking several hours; it's not at all difficult, but it is time consuming.

 

[gcwimmer]

Have some brake fluid handy when you bleed the brakes.

Take the cap off the brake fluid master cylinder, if topped off take some fluid out. When you compress the piston, fluid will back up.

I have used the $5 cube, from Harbor Freight, in conjunction with 3/8 drive with great success.

 

[DunItRight]

On the 2nd Gen LS, the caliper is bolted to the bracket with a pair of 12mm bolts, and the caliper bracket is bolted to the suspension with a pair of 15mm bolts.

You'll need a 12mm box-end wrench to do the upper caliper bolt on the front; there's no clearance for a socket. A heavier-duty ratcheting box-end wrench would be very helpful here.

A 1/2"-drive ratchet, socket, and extension will make removing the caliper bracket bolts much easier. (The longer handle and heavier body of the 1/2"-drive ratchet is the key benefit; a long-handled 3/8"-drive ratchet/breaker bar or a cheater bar on a normal 3/8"-drive ratchet/breaker bar would do the same thing.)

A pair of needle-nose pliers are needed for removing the spring steel clips/"nuts" that keep the rotors in place when the wheels are off the car. The kind with the bent nose would be very helpful.

The only special tool required is the rear caliper piston tool. I think this is the one Quik uses: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=40732 ; I use the one (a Lisle, IIRC) I gout years ago for working on my SHO's brakes. By all reports, avoid the cube-type universal tool, and stick with the disc-type (like the one at Harbor Freight linked above). A C-clamp and one of the old pads is all you need to retract the pistons on the front calipers.

If you follow the directions, you'll also need a run-out gauge. I happen to have one I got from my dad, but I don't know where you'd find one. You'll also need a torque wrench to do it right; on the 2nd Gen LSes, the caliper bracket bolts get torqued to 76 ft-lbs and the lug nuts should be torqued to 100 ft-lbs, but I don't recall the specs for the caliper bolts.

And, oh yeah, don't forget the bailing wire to suspend the caliper while you're disassembling/reassembling everything. I'd plan on this taking several hours; it's not at all difficult, but it is time consuming.

Is thsi the same for the first gen?

 

[SoonerLS]

Is thsi the same for the first gen?

The sizes of the sockets may be slightly different (eLeS said 14mm on the bracket bolts, but I'm almost positive I used 15mm), but the procedures and the tools themselves should be the same. The lugnuts are all supposed to be torqued to 100 ft-lbs, but the other torque specs may be different for a 1st Gen.

The only deep-socket you'd need would be for the lug nuts; the rest of the sockets I used were just standard 6-sided 3/8"-drive and 1/2"-drive Craftsman sockets, and those socket sizes should be included in any normal metric socket set.

 

[DunItRight]

Went out and got a tool set and a nice jack and stand set pretty cheap today but I gotta ask, what type of headaches did the square shape tool for the caliper cause?

I just have to ask cause when I asked everyobe at all the stores I went to about one of the round ones, they all told me they never had any problems with them at all. I also see that someone here said it wasn't that bad either.

Just wanted to ask cause I have quick easy access to one but I will order one of the others on line if I must.

 

[eL eS]

the two I have owned did not match the grooves if the piston well... rather did not fit at all. I had to file the hell out of my first one to get it to even come close to fitting. This last one I bought just plain did not have the width between the teeth to fit across the piston.

Have a plan B just in case or at least a second car so you can run for parts/tools.

 

[SoonerLS]

My disc brake tool is the disc-type, not a cube, and gcwimmer's account of using the cube is the first one I've heard that was positive. All of the others I remember were negative. Of course, I've had my disc-type tool for longer than the LS has been in existence, so I never really payed all that much attention to those discussions.

And definitely make sure you have either Permatex or CCH Disc Brake Quiet and some hi-temp grease. The Disc Brake Quiet goes on the backs of the pads where they mate to the caliper; the hi-temp grease goes on the caliper bracket where the pads make contact. (On the fronts, it's a piece of stainless sheet steel; on the back, it's the raw metal of the bracket.) It would also be a good idea to buy a spray can of brake cleaner.

I've used both Permatex and CCH; the main difference I've found is that the Permatex is blue and comes in two packets per package, while the CCH is red and comes in a bottle. The two packets of Permatex are really more than you need to do an LS; the CCH bottle is dang near a lifetime supply. (I used CCH when I installed my EBC rotors, and I haven't heard any squealing yet.) FWIW, I don't recall what Permatex's instructions were, but CCH says to apply the goo and let it sit for 10 minutes before installing the pads; basically, what I did was disassemble the caliper, apply the goo to the pads, and set them aside while I R&R'd the caliper bracket and rotor.

 

[DunItRight]

Have a plan B just in case or at least a second car so you can run for parts/tools.

Got a second car but I am going into plan b at this moment now that I am convinced by yours and Sooners posts seeing on how both of you seem to be the most involved in my thread, and plan b is buying the damn tool online . THANKS!

I also have everything Sooner tells me to have cause I think I like the look of the rotors, I never had brake squeal and was that concerned about it but I also dont want a over abundance of dust and ruin my new rotors & wheels ( I put them, the wheels, on for a day to see how they work and I allready got a screw in the tire ) if that may occure.

Thanks guys. As soon as I get my rotors and pads Im taking a six pack of Mikeys out to the driveway and going to work so I am planing a whole day with a couple of friends.

Ill shot some pics I guess as well.

 

[eL eS]

six pack of Mikey's .

I have the big mouths in a long time. enjoy

 

[eL eS]

Hey SoonerLS... What does the runout guide do. Obviously I did not use it but do recall reading around it once.

Also what is CCH? Is it a lube or adhesive?

 

[SoonerLS]

Sorry; it should be CRC, not CCH. As far as I can tell, their Disc Brake Quiet is the same thing as the Permatex product, only it's red instead of blue. Both appear to be more of a flexible sealant that "glues" the pads to the calipers. Here's what CRC says it is:

CRC Disc Brake Quiet dampens the vibrations that cause disc brake noise. It is an elastomeric polymer product, applied to the back of disc brake pads to act as a vibration and sound absorbing layer.
-- http://www.crcind.com.au/catalogue.nsf/web_brands/Disc+Brake+Quiet?openDocument

Here's a link to it on Amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/CRC-Disc-Brake-Quiet-oz/dp/B0007N1ZPO

The runout gauge measures runout ("wobble," for lack of a better term) in the rotor. EBC says there should be no more than 0.03" or .003" (I remember it's 3, but not whether it's hundredths or thousandths) of runout on the disc; if there is, you're supposed to take the rotor off, rotate it one lug hole, and remeasure. If it's still in excess of the tolerance, you're supposed to have the hub checked. The warning on the box was if the runout exceeds the tolerance and nothing is done to correct it, you'd hear a "once per revolution click," and, within a few thousand miles, you'd develop a dangerous "judder" in the brakes.

...or something like that; mine was in spec, so I didn't pay much attention to what came after "check the runout." I'm sure the FAQs on the EBC Web site will cover that in more depth (and with more accuracy).

Also, one more thing I forgot: Anti-seize compound. IIRC, the EBC instructions call for a thin coat of anti-seize on the rotor where it meets the hub. I also put it on the caliper bolts.

Finally, if you need to have the rotors turned, AllData says you should only use an "on-car brake lathe" for the job.

 

[DunItRight]

I got everything except for the pads and rotors. Thats all I neeed now, I got the tool from Napa today surprisingly they had it and it was only 12 bucks!

Oh and I need another case of grenades, I finished my last last night.

They had one of those little tiny bottles of that red brake quiet to.

 

[eL eS]

Thanks for all of the detail.

I didn't check the run out but haven't heard any clicking sounds but do hear a swishing/swooshing sound. It definitely isn't squeal but not certain how to define the sound.

Their documentation remarked on some airplane sound. I will revisit the install tis weekend.

I did use the crc red stuff... man o man that stuff is a real mess to work with.

Sorry; it should be CRC, not CCH. As far as I can tell, their Disc Brake Quiet is the same thing as the Permatex product, only it's red instead of blue. Both appear to be more of a flexible sealant that "glues" the pads to the calipers. Here's what CRC says it is:


Here's a link to it on Amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/CRC-Disc-Brake-Quiet-oz/dp/B0007N1ZPO

The runout gauge measures runout ("wobble," for lack of a better term) in the rotor. EBC says there should be no more than 0.03" or .003" (I remember it's 3, but not whether it's hundredths or thousandths) of runout on the disc; if there is, you're supposed to take the rotor off, rotate it one lug hole, and remeasure. If it's still in excess of the tolerance, you're supposed to have the hub checked. The warning on the box was if the runout exceeds the tolerance and nothing is done to correct it, you'd hear a "once per revolution click," and, within a few thousand miles, you'd develop a dangerous "judder" in the brakes.

...or something like that; mine was in spec, so I didn't pay much attention to what came after "check the runout." I'm sure the FAQs on the EBC Web site will cover that in more depth (and with more accuracy).

Also, one more thing I forgot: Anti-seize compound. IIRC, the EBC instructions call for a thin coat of anti-seize on the rotor where it meets the hub. I also put it on the caliper bolts.

Finally, if you need to have the rotors turned, AllData says you should only use an "on-car brake lathe" for the job.

 

[SoonerLS]

I did use the crc red stuff... man o man that stuff is a real mess to work with.

I didn't have much trouble with it when I let it sit the 10 minutes before trying to put the pads back on the car. By then, it had set up just enough to (mostly) stay in place. If I didn't wait, yeah, it was a mess...

 

[eL eS]

Yeah I let it set as well but found it to be a sticky mess when trying to wipe off my hands. Works great though.

 

[DunItRight]

Thats why Im glad I stole a shlt load of gloves from the last Dr's visit..lol

 

[SoonerLS]

Yeah I let it set as well but found it to be a sticky mess when trying to wipe off my hands. Works great though.

Ain't that the dyin' truth. That stuff is sticky as all get out when you get it on your hands. Between that and the liquified brake dust slurry from when I shot the calipers and brackets with brake cleaner, I didn't think I was ever going to get my hands clean. Some of that stuff survived several applications of Fast Orange, dish soap, and shampoo...

 

[eL eS]

Some of that stuff survived several applications of Fast Orange, dish soap, and shampoo...

Yeah it took me a day or two to totally clean up my act.

 

[DunItRight]

OK I'm starting this today in the afternoon, I have to go out of state for a funeral, my girlfriends grandfather died and he has a nice garage and some good back roads to cruise down and test out the brakes like the pamphlet says to do.


Now one thing, the pads came with clips that aren't already on them. Do the factory pads have the same clips and can I use them to see how to put them on? If not does anyone have any pics from a job they did saved on PC at all?

I'm gunna take pics just for the hell of it of the whole deal, tools used and all. I figured what the hell may as well do the fuel filter, I got gas about 3-4 times since my last incident with the bad gas but I still get this faint pinging once in a while.


Thanks!

 

[NateRW21]

OK I'm starting this today in the afternoon, I have to go out of state for a funeral, my girlfriends grandfather died and he has a nice garage and some good back roads to cruise down and test out the brakes like the pamphlet says to do.


Now one thing, the pads came with clips that aren't already on them. Do the factory pads have the same clips and can I use them to see how to put them on? If not does anyone have any pics from a job they did saved on PC at all?

I'm gunna take pics just for the hell of it of the whole deal, tools used and all. I figured what the hell may as well do the fuel filter, I got gas about 3-4 times since my last incident with the bad gas but I still get this faint pinging once in a while.


Thanks!

Hopefully I'm not posting too late. Everyone hit on just about all the issues you need to address, except one; No one mentioned the need to re-grease the slider which the calipers ride on. I've done so many brake jobs it's hard to remember just how the LS is set-up (especially since it's been a while since I did my brakes). But, if I recall correctly, there is a slider inserted into the caliper for which the 12mm bolts bolt into (some have slider bolts in which the caliper actually rides on the bolt instead of a seperate slider). It is imperitive that you remove these sliders, being careful not to damage the rubber boot, make an attempt to get some of the old grease out, wipe down the slider, then re-grease. If you fail to do this and moisture happens to get into the boot, you risk having the slider seize into the bore. Not only does this end up ruining your rotors (because the caliper no longer can slide back and fourth; all braking pressure is then applied to the piston side of the rotor), but you also run the rist of ruining your caliper. I've had to replace a couple calipers due to this. Sometimes they can be heated with an oxy-gas torch, removed and drilled to clean out the corrosion... but you really don't want to have to mess with that!

Further, you'd be well advised to apply light coating of anti-seize to the hub face; this will allow easy removal of the rotors in the future (too many times I've had to throw on safety glasses and take a dead-blow hammer to a rotor). And lastily, it wouldn't hurt to throw a light coating of anti-seize on the wheel-face of the rotor either. Although not as common as a rotor seizing onto the hub, wheels do sometimes seize onto the rotor; this can be a major PITA when you get a flat and can't get your tire off! And, without opening the feild to debate... another option is a SMALL dab of anti-seize on the threads of the lugnuts. I've two times had to cut lugnuts off due to seizing... not a process I enjoy. I will go ahead and state... some people feel anti-seize on the lugs is unsafe, some feel it's fine. I've done it for years with no problems; lug nuts are not held on by friction, but rather clamping force. Friction actually will give you false torque readings (which is why ARP, the ONLY performance hardware manufacture requires moly-lube be applied to the threads of their hardware). Anyway... on the lugs... it's your call.

And lastly; while you've got your wheels off... might want to consider changing your brake fluid, not just bleeding. The fluid accumulated moisture through condensation over time. Easiest way to do it is pick up a large syringe, suck out all of the old fluid from the master cylinder, replace with fresh fluid (DOT3 or DOT4; go synthetic), then bleed your brakes until the fluid runs out clean (remember, always bleed furthest to closest; right rear, left rear, right front, left front).

Goodluck!

 

[DunItRight]

Thanks for taking the time!

I got it all down now lol.

I got a small can of the grease for 9 bucks! I hated paying for but I did it anyway just cause I don't see 2 of the little packets doing much like the auto store guy told me to use.

I got the anti seize to bud, but thanks for the concerns!

 

[SoonerLS]

Further, you'd be well advised to apply light coating of anti-seize to the hub face; this will allow easy removal of the rotors in the future (too many times I've had to throw on safety glasses and take a dead-blow hammer to a rotor).

I thought I mentioned the anti-seize in the hub... (Look right above the picture of the CRC Disc Brake Quiet bottle. )

BTW, I've seen the anti-seize on the lugs debate, and I recall seeing something from an authoritative source that said you should never put anything on the lugs. I'm sure it's around here somewhere...