No start, no crank, at a loss.

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bschooled

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Went to go start the car this morning to go to work. Got in turned the key ... nothing.

Doesn't turn over at all, no relay clicking, just nothing.

You can turn the key to the on position and the whole cluster lights up, everything appears okay. Checked battery ... it's fine.

Checked engine compartment power box, switched starter relay with the wiper heater relay, still nothing.

Check other starter fuses and they are also fine. I am at a complete loss, I just drove it last night.

Does anyone have any suggestions.
 
suspect battery

no power to starter, or starter bad. how old is battery? age of car?
 
it's a 2000. Battery is 2 years old, tried a different battery. Everything else is powering up. Where is the starter located on these cars?
 
Hmmmm

Check all fuses in trunk too. Starter located under engine of course. Check battery with voltmeter. Post readings.
 
What is the PATS light doing when you try to start?
If it's flashing, then there's your problem. PATS will prevent the starter from running.

If it's flashing, then wait for it to stop flashing rapidly and then start flashing out a two digit code. Post that code here, and we can point to where the problem might be. Also, if you have more than one key, then try another key to start it.
 
bschooled said:
it's a 2000. Battery is 2 years old, tried a different battery. Everything else is powering up. Where is the starter located on these cars?
Click to expand...

It's on the engine, at the bottom. But don't bother with that yet. What's the little red light (PATS) at the center of the dash by the windshield doing when you try to start it?
 
I doubt it would be the battery after putting it on a battery's charger for a while not to mention all accessories.power up.

I wasn't sure if the starter was located somewhere weird in this car, I had a car where it was located under the intake manifold.

As far as the "pats" light, I will have to check that when i get home.

this car has been an incredible pain, it literally breaks every week.
 
Just My $.02 But I Had The Same Prob Put It In Neutral And C If It Starts If It Does Its The Shifter Linkage
 
Alright. Just got home, went out to check and see what the PATS light is doing.

While the doors are locked it flashes steadily like it always has. Unlock doors stops flashing. Put key in ignition, turn to on position, it turns on steady for a second and then goes off, while attempting to start the light is off.
 
Oh also tried to start in neutral and again nothing. Starter is not engaging at all.
 
Also checked rear fuse box, nothing says it's specifically related to the starter but I check pretty much everything and all the fuses are good.

*edit* Nevermind I found the diagram for the starter
 
Does anyone have any suggestions on how to test if the starter is bad ? I can't afford just replacing parts to figure out what is bad.
 
bschooled said:
Does anyone have any suggestions on how to test if the starter is bad ? I can't afford just replacing parts to figure out what is bad.
Click to expand...

You'll need two people.

Get under the car with a voltmeter (or multimeter set to DC volts). Measure between ground (metal part of frame or engine) and the "B" terminal on the starter solenoid. You should get 12 volts or more. If not, then there's something wrong in the wiring between the starter and the battery.

Now, have someone turn the key to start while you measure the voltage between the "S" terminal on the starter solenoid and ground. You should get over 10V. If not, then you have a wiring, PATS, ignition switch, starter relay, or neutral safety switch problem.

Now, again have someone turn the key to start and this time measure between ground and the "M" terminal on the starter solenoid. You should get over 9 volts. If you don't and if the other tests passed, you have a bad starter solenoid. If you do get over 9 volts, then you have a bad starter.
(I think that normally, the starter and the solenoid are replaced as a set.)
 
Thanks joegr for the useful information. I will try to do this this weekend, although it's supposed to very cold.
 
Ummm, so I think people may have missed where I described what my PATS system was doing when I tried to start it.

I was searching some more and found this

"you are correct joe, the PATS light should come on solid while cranking the car if the keys code is correct, the PATS light should blink if the code is not correct, since you light is doing neither, then there might be a problem with the PATS module"

My PATS light comes one for about 3 seconds and goes off in the acc position, in the start position it doesn't go solid. That would indicate a PATS problem right?

Also while attempting to start the car, all my dash lights and radio die and then immediately come back as soon as I leave the start position.

What the hell is going on with my car?!?
 
I'm going to throw this out there just as a suggestion, not sure if it may help but its something to check off. Check the power junctions behind the black plastic inner fender well on the passenger front to see if they have come loose. You can see it in pic 13 with the red cap. Be careful and not over tighten the bolt.
http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/showpost.php?p=877948&postcount=64
 
bschooled said:
Ummm, so I think people may have missed where I described what my PATS system was doing when I tried to start it.

I was searching some more and found this

"you are correct joe, the PATS light should come on solid while cranking the car if the keys code is correct, the PATS light should blink if the code is not correct, since you light is doing neither, then there might be a problem with the PATS module"

My PATS light comes one for about 3 seconds and goes off in the acc position, in the start position it doesn't go solid. That would indicate a PATS problem right?

Also while attempting to start the car, all my dash lights and radio die and then immediately come back as soon as I leave the start position.

What the hell is going on with my car?!?
Click to expand...

Sorry, thought you meant that the PATS light went off after being on solid for a while. When you turn to start, most of the dash (like the radio and climate control) is supposed to be suppressed. However, if the warning lights are also going off, then you have a power problem. Another verification is to turn the headlights on. If they go out when you turn the key to start you have a power problem.

If you do, then here are some tests. Start with the battery. measure across its terminals while someone turns the key to start. If the voltage drops below 10V, your battery is gone.
Measure from the negative terminal to the metal of the car while some turns the key to start. If the voltage goes above 0.5 volts, you have a bad ground at the battery. Repeat between the positive post and the power bus in the trunk. Keep going from there.
 
Again thanks for all your guys suggestions. You at least are giving me new places to look.

I measured the voltage across the battery terminals, at no load it's a solid 12, trying to start its around 11.50, no voltage from negative terminal to ground.

Like I said, all the lights die in the car trying to start it, no instrument lights or warning lights. If I manually turn on the headlights they stay on and stay bright while "starting"
 
bschooled said:
...
Like I said, all the lights die in the car trying to start it, no instrument lights or warning lights. If I manually turn on the headlights they stay on and stay bright while "starting"
Click to expand...

Pull the starter relay, and see if that allows the warning lights to stay on or not when turning the key to start.
 
Schetthog, will let you know the results tomorrow morning. It's far to cold and late to go out there and mess with it now.

Hopefully we can both figure out what's going on.
 
Yes, it has a starter relay, but it is controlled by several things, including PATS. Why do you think it is the relay, and what is your PATS light doing. Do your headlights and warning lights stay on while attempting to start the engine?

starting-small.jpg
 
Well I finally had some more time to look into what is going on. I pulled the starter relay, along with any fuses related to the starter and it did not change the condition of my cluster not lighting up.

The auto-lights will stay on if I hold the key in the start position, indicating at least that it isn't a completely dead ignition switch.

I don't really know what to do at the moment. I don't want to throw parts at it or have a shop do that either. Do you think a scanner would pick up on the problem?
 
Alright well I had it towed to a shop I have used before. They have always been good to me. I hope they can figure out what it is. Should get a call tomorrow. I will update with results.
 
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