new to the forum, need struts and other performance mods, where do i go?...

[NateRW21]

I have my reservations about the cryogenic coolers for the N/A vehicle like this company makes too. The cooling does help but flow restrictions are not a good thing, especially in an N/A setup where your VE is totally dependent on how much air you can pull into the cylinders. Flow becomes less important in an FI combo which is why supercharger manifolds like what Eaton, Kenne Bell and Whipple use can have so many tight bends but still be fine. In a N/A combo the air inlet temps do not become nearly as critical due to the IAT's being close to or at ambient when under hard acceleration. The FI combo's heat the intake charge quite a bit which is why they actually see allot of advantage from them. I do not see the point in using a chiller kit like this for a N/A vehicle. Not worth the money or time to install it as far as I am concerned.

That's pretty much along the lines of what I was thinking. And looking at it from a FI stand point... the friction of the molecules being compressed together causes the heat; seems your typical inter-cooler, provided it is sized correctly would be MUCH MUCH more effective due to the overall surface area cooling the intake charge. I think this is really nothing more than a sham. Also, we're not even factoring in the weight of a full bottle for CO2 when we think about how effective this would be. I would much rather dump pounds of CO2 onto my inter-cooler than through a little nub protruding in my intake tract. Again, it comes down to surface area.

After-all, isn't the point to be able to push more VOLUME into the intake? (the more effective the air is cooled, the more dense it becomes, the more the pressure is decreased) Theoretical case in point, going from running a blower with no inter-cooler at 14psi, adding an inter-cooler and changing nothing else... drops your boost to 12psi... yet performance is unchanged. It's the same volume of air, just at a lower pressure. (insert typical water faucet example).

Yup, I don't buy it for NA or FI...

CO2 on your inter-cooler, sprayed on your manifold to lower temps (got to be easier than icing it!), fuel rails in a return style fuel system (all that flow does build up a considerable amount of heat)... I can see the logic; but induction air-flow cooling? Hardly seems beneficial enough to throw my money away.

 

[ILLS]

After-all, isn't the point to be able to push more VOLUME into the intake? (the more effective the air is cooled, the more dense it becomes, the more the pressure is decreased) Theoretical case in point, going from running a blower with no inter-cooler at 14psi, adding an inter-cooler and changing nothing else... drops your boost to 12psi... yet performance is unchanged. It's the same volume of air, just at a lower pressure. (insert typical water faucet example).

Volume? No. The point is to push more AIRMASS into the intake. There is a VERY large and key difference there. Also going from a non-IC to a IC you will usually see a 1-2 psi drop in pressure. While there may be slightly less volume of air going into the intake it has a higher mass due to it being cooler, thus the air molecules are able to be packed more tightly per cubic inch of air. MASS is the name of the game.

Depending on how high the Aircharge temps were before the addition of the IC, and the efficiency of the IC itself will determine if there will be a significant power gain (even at a lower manifold pressure) or not. For most intents and purposes when you add an IC to any FI combination you WILL see a performance increase.

Yup, I don't buy it for NA or FI...

I do not see big benefit resulting from spraying (N20 or CO2) like what some kits do for their cooling affect on N/A combo's. I do see it working quite well on FI combo's while using a spray bar for the exterior of the intercooler.

 

[thethirdeye88]

once again, thanks guys for having more knowledge...i'm still learning...remember the old espn commercials about the "knowledge"?...the big furry ball with the hobbit feet?...

 

[NateRW21]

Volume? No. The point is to push more AIRMASS into the intake. There is a VERY large and key difference there. Also going from a non-IC to a IC you will usually see a 1-2 psi drop in pressure. While there may be slightly less volume of air going into the intake it has a higher mass due to it being cooler, thus the air molecules are able to be packed more tightly per cubic inch of air. MASS is the name of the game.

Depending on how high the Aircharge temps were before the addition of the IC, and the efficiency of the IC itself will determine if there will be a significant power gain (even at a lower manifold pressure) or not. For most intents and purposes when you add an IC to any FI combination you WILL see a performance increase.

I do not see big benefit resulting from spraying (N20 or CO2) like what some kits do for their cooling affect on N/A combo's. I do see it working quite well on FI combo's while using a spray bar for the exterior of the intercooler.

I'm sorry, on that first part, I simply used the wrong wording. Although, it could be argued that my thought process wasn't all that far off... when discussing gases, volume and mass are somewhat related as as volume for gas is usually measured at a specific density (or mass). We're making the same point, just my wording wasn't as good as it could have been.

On the second part... Again, we agree!

 

[ILLS]

I'm sorry, on that first part, I simply used the wrong wording. Although, it could be argued that my thought process wasn't all that far off... when discussing gases, volume and mass are somewhat related as as volume for gas is usually measured at a specific density (or mass). We're making the same point, just my wording wasn't as good as it could have been.

On the second part... Again, we agree!

Yep, you were pretty close. Gas volume's are measured at specific densities but those specific densities are not encountered on the road all the time. Although the ratings systems that we happen to use correlate mass and volume with gases to establish a sort of common ground, pure physics takes much more into account. When talking about complex airflow dynamics and other physic's based idea's a person has to be very specific in their wording. Changing one thing will give a totally different meaning to some things. Either way I get what you meant to say.