New problem

[LunaEros]

Car temp was running relatively well considering the 90-100 degree heat lately. As long as I ran the AC. But last night on the way home that luck seemed to run out. 11:30 at night in 78 degree temps I ended up having to turn the AC to full heat because the car temp seemed to be climbing fast up to 213.
Checked this morning as best I could since I have cardiac problems now and only basic tools but I can't see any leaks anywhere and the coolant level seems to be right. The fan doesn't seem to get very fast. I would think it would be running fast when the temp starts getting up towards the higher end. Is there any easy way to check it?

 

[LunaEros]

Also I have no tool to check cooling system pressure. But I imagine the radiator hose would get fairly firm to squeeze. How long would it have to run or how hot before the hose firmed up?

I really wish there were someone that lived in my area that could help me with this.

 

[joegr]

213 is not a problem. I don't think the fan gets to max till about 230. Note that the fan doesn't run while the car is moving at reasonable speed. The radiator hose should be firm by the time the temp gauge gets to the midpoint.

You typically will not see any leaks, and the coolant will be very slow to fall. It's more a matter of air leaking in than coolant leaking out (though some does). You may be able to see some dry powder like stains where some leaks are. If all your plastic cooling parts haven't been replaced in the last six years, then there's your problem. Eventually, the radiator will crack at the top front on the passenger side. You have to remove the upper support on that side to see it.

 

[LunaEros]

213 is not a problem. I don't think the fan gets to max till about 230. Note that the fan doesn't run while the car is moving at reasonable speed. The radiator hose should be firm by the time the temp gauge gets to the midpoint.

You typically will not see any leaks, and the coolant will be very slow to fall. It's more a matter of air leaking in than coolant leaking out (though some does). You may be able to see some dry powder like stains where some leaks are. If all your plastic cooling parts haven't been replaced in the last six years, then there's your problem. Eventually, the radiator will crack at the top front on the passenger side. You have to remove the upper support on that side to see it.

Ok. I don't know which to look at then. I know the temp wasn't that high but the speed the temp is climbing is not the normal rate it goes up at. Like I told you before, Joe, I'm extremely paranoid about the temp since that time about 6 months ago when it sprung a leak at the water pump while I was driving home and it got hot enough for the engine fail-safe to kick in and start shutting down the engine. When I looked I didn't even see anything wet around what I could see but I when I took it out this morning and it got up to 215 when I stopped it I also tried undoing the coolant cap and thought that didn't feel like a lot of pressure for the 16 lbs that it's supposed to have. And the fan never seems to sound as loud as it used to quite a while before. It doesn't seem too fast looking at it when it runs and hot either but I've no idea how to check if it's running right.

 

[joegr]

Is the temperature climb while you are moving (>25 MPH) or when you are sitting still?
Is this 1st or 2nd gen, V6 or V8?

 

[LunaEros]

Is the temperature climb while you are moving (>25 MPH) or when you are sitting still?
Is this 1st or 2nd gen, V6 or V8?

Both. It slows down going up when it's stationary, About a quarter as fast I guess but when I'm driving it's going up way too fast. It's about half as fast if I shut the AC off. Last night when I got home and parked I sat there for a minute because even if it was north of 210 if I sat there in park with the AC on the temp would slowly cool back down but not last night. Instead it went up.

It's an 02 v8 Sport

 

[joegr]

Okay, whether or not your fan is working correctly, it's not the problem here.
Either your thermostat is not opening correctly, or (far more likely) the cooling system is getting air-locked due to micro cracks in the plastic.

 

[LunaEros]

Okay, whether or not your fan is working correctly, it's not the problem here.
Either your thermostat is not opening correctly, or (far more likely) the cooling system is getting air-locked due to micro cracks in the plastic.

Ok. What should I do next then, Joe?

Luckily my friend has her late mother's Jeep Grand Cherokee she's willing to sell me which probably needs either an alternator or battery. That might be easier to fix right now so I could have transportation again and it would give me a backup and time to fix the LS. Just have to work out buying from her getting it fixed and on the road.
Of course Murphy's Law would come kick me in the nuts since I just had to spend $700 for new tires a week and a half ago. (sigh smh)

 

[joegr]

It seems like unexpected income is always followed by unexpected expenses. However, unexpected expenses never seem to lead to unexpected income. I wish I knew the answer...

 

[LunaEros]

It seems like unexpected income is always followed by unexpected expenses. However, unexpected expenses never seem to lead to unexpected income. I wish I knew the answer...

No, unexpected expenses can easily lead to lost income from me missing work. Sometimes I wish my friend wasn't at my place a couple of years ago when I dropped dead from my heart just stopping.
Is there an easy way to tell if the thermostat is opening without tearing it apart and boiling it? And I guess there's no way to tell for sure if any of the plastic has microcracks and all I can do is plan on spending ridiculous amount to replace all of it, right? Do think they have a tool to pressure check the cooling systems for our cars that I could possibly rent from a parts store?

 

[joegr]

Surely you have had some experiences since then that have made it worth while to stick around a bit longer.
No, you'd have to take it out. At that point, put a new one in no matter how it tests out.
Nope, just have to replace it all. It's still cheaper to do it all at once than one at a time. Some of it will probably break during removal anyway.
Sadly, a pressure check will not help. The cracks are a problem when the system cools down and is at a mild vacuum.

 

[LunaEros]

So getting air locked from microcracks does what? Does it cause the same condition that filling it does as in too much air in the system that needs to be bled when it's filled?

 

[LunaEros]

Ok. I let the temp gauge get to the halfway point and it was about 195 degrees. tried squeezing both radiator hoses where I could get at them near the top and neither seemed like there wasn't much pressure in them.
The fan also does not seem to be spinning very fast or pulling much air through it. Don't know if this is anything but the AC doesn't seem to be blasting cold air but then again it's 95 degrees out and the car was closed before I went to try again.

 

[LunaEros]

Surely you have had some experiences since then that have made it worth while to stick around a bit longer.
No, you'd have to take it out. At that point, put a new one in no matter how it tests out.
Nope, just have to replace it all. It's still cheaper to do it all at once than one at a time. Some of it will probably break during removal anyway.
Sadly, a pressure check will not help. The cracks are a problem when the system cools down and is at a mild vacuum.

Hey, Joe, would I be able to get the temp to come down at all by turning the heater on full blast if the thermostat wasn't opening?

 

[joegr]

Hey, Joe, would I be able to get the temp to come down at all by turning the heater on full blast if the thermostat wasn't opening?

Yes, the heater is a separate circuit that bypasses the thermostat. However, being air-locked is the same result. If the air is in the main loop and not in the heater circuit, you get the same thing, cooling with the heater on.

Your fan should be going pretty fast at 95 with the AC on. Probably your fan actuator is sticking. I guess when it rains, it pours.

 

[LunaEros]

Yes, the heater is a separate circuit that bypasses the thermostat. However, being air-locked is the same result. If the air is in the main loop and not in the heater circuit, you get the same thing, cooling with the heater on.

Your fan should be going pretty fast at 95 with the AC on. Probably your fan actuator is sticking. I guess when it rains, it pours.

I was wondering about the actuator too. I don't suppose there's anyone that still carries those, is there? Ford Parts Giant lists it but says it's discontinued.

 

[joegr]

I was wondering about the actuator too. I don't suppose there's anyone that still carries those, is there? Ford Parts Giant lists it but says it's discontinued.

No, I don't think there is any way left to get a new one now.

 

[LunaEros]

No, I don't think there is any way left to get a new one now.

So I guess my only option would be to get an aftermarket electric fan and disconnect the hydraulic fan. Do you happen to know what the stock fan's airflow cfm is?

 

[joegr]

So I guess my only option would be to get an aftermarket electric fan and disconnect the hydraulic fan. Do you happen to know what the stock fan's airflow cfm is?

No, I don't.
It may be possible to clean and fix your existing actuator, but that is far from certain. Sometimes they can't even be removed without damaging them.
It is possible to make a 2nd gen fan work.
Anyway, you said you had temperature rise while driving, so your fan is not your only problem.

 

[LunaEros]

No, I don't.
It may be possible to clean and fix your existing actuator, but that is far from certain. Sometimes they can't even be removed without damaging them.
It is possible to make a 2nd gen fan work.
Anyway, you said you had temperature rise while driving, so your fan is not your only problem.

I'm gonna try taking it to this local mechanic tomorrow and see what they can do and how much they'd charge if they think they can fix it.
I just don't really have the capability to do this anymore and especially wouldn't be able to source a gen 2 fan system from a junkyard myself.
At this point I kinda wish I had my old 73 F250. The 390 in that was so simple and everything was easy to get to to fix.

 

[HRLNKN]

IDK, I was thinking of a possible DCCV failure
Edit: Luna, I believe yours is a Gen 1 so MOTORCRAFT YG355

 

[LunaEros]

IDK, I was thinking of a possible DCCV failure
Edit: Luna, I believe yours is a Gen 1 so MOTORCRAFT YG355

I replaced it about a year or two ago and it seems to be working still. I don't see how that failing would cause the car to overheat so quickly anyway. Also when I switch it from AC to full heat it does make the car cool down. And yes it's a Gen1.

 

[HRLNKN]

That's just a guess due to the change in air temperature being blown into the cabin (cold air turns into warm). All the DEW98-based cars have the same failure mode, including the Gen 1 XF. Maybe the unusually warm & humid temps we've all been experiencing were taxing the system to its limit that night. Quick thought: have you done a check of the radiator and/or condenser for leaves & what-not? Maybe blocked or something. (If you already posted on that I apologize in advance, I missed it)

 

[LunaEros]

That's just a guess due to the change in air temperature being blown into the cabin (cold air turns into warm). All the DEW98-based cars have the same failure mode, including the Gen 1 XF. Maybe the unusually warm & humid temps we've all been experiencing were taxing the system to its limit that night. Quick thought: have you done a check of the radiator and/or condenser for leaves & what-not? Maybe blocked or something. (If you already posted on that I apologize in advance, I missed it)

I looked down them and it's only a slight bit dirty. Nothing that would impede the airflow though.

 

[milehighmikey]

My actuators always failed when it was in the 90s outside. Sounds like a conversion to electric fan would be indicated. As you say, that fan is not spinning fast and it should be spinning fast when it is hot outside and the a/c is running. So probably the fan change and the plastics renewal. I've been there with the using the heater to cool the engine off in the summertime. It's terribly hot in a car when that has to be done.