New here, considering a 1998-2002 Continental

[spliteye]

Hey everyone, first post here. I can be a bit long winded, so sorry if this post is long. If you don't feel like reading my spiel, feel free to read a couple paragraphs down :lol: .

I'm considering finding a good, clean, well kept 1998-2002 Continental in the nearish future. I've always been a fan of the styling, even though I'm 22. I've always loved luxury cars. While other 12 year olds wanted a Mustang, I wanted a Continental. I've always loved large, soft-riding cars. This one in particular.

I figured this was the perfect site to join and make this post, as 8 months or so ago, I owned another dream car of mine, a 2003 Cadillac Seville STS, for just a year prior. I loved this car, however the romance ended shortly after the car was just about constantly falling apart. It had 85,500 miles on it when purchased and I sold it at 103,500. During that time I invested about $2,500 in repairs (too many to list, and keep in mind that that price reflects parts prices, as I did 90% of my own work). The car was cherry when I purchased it, other than a front motor mount that was on it's way out. I found that all four of the magneride struts were leaking (roughly $1,000 per corner and there's no way to trick the computer on F55 cars, only CVRSS equipped vehicles). Like a fool, I was about to scavenge up the money for it, but I decided to test for head gasket leaks before hand. Low and behold, it failed. I had done the test when I purchased it and it passed then. I of course had to let it go, as the repairs would cost more than the car was to begin with and it would have taken more than my resources permitted to complete the repairs.

This experience shied me away from luxury cars, so I bought a low mile Ford F-250 with the 7.3idi diesel, thinking I could use it for it's capabilities and it would be simple and bullet proof. My dad father has a Power Stroke with a 7.3 that has been awesome, so I figured I would be safe. Even though it's in much better shape than 90% of the rest of these trucks I see running around, it has been a constant project, a bit more than I can handle on my off time. I've been missing luxury cars as well since, but I've been stumbling across some killer deals for these Continentals with low miles.

I have a few questions. Apart from normal maintenance (belts, hoses, tensioners, etc.), how reliable are these realistically? I'm a good mechanic and can fix just about anything that comes up, however I'd like a little break from serious issues. If I could drive the car for three months without a repair, it would be the first vehicle I've owned that would be able to do that. I've read that these cars are essentially stretched Ford Tauruses with V8s, air bags, and electronc gizmos. My father has a 2002 Taurus that he bought with 14K miles in 03, and it now has over 170K and has required little over normal maintenance.

This car uses the same transmission as said Taurus, correct? This means that it's overstressed? Is this an every 100K mile replacement, or does it more or less depend on the previous owners driving and maintenance habits?

Anything I should look for upon test drive, other than dark, burned smelling transmission fluid?

What is the overall quality compared to the Seville? I was deeply disappointed when I found things like the coatings on the various leather and plastic surfaces on the door panels and seats were wearing off, leather ripping when it looked to be in good condition, flash left on the dash molding and a pillar covers that could be pulled off just by grabbing them and tugging gently.

Once again, I apologize for the long post, but I appreciate any help/advice you can give.

Happy New Year,
Dan

 

[bradyelich]

Too bad you wanting the 1998, the 1997 are the best looking and the most reliable. Read my blog/post of my running maintenance and upkeep. Tranny not that bad. Just change tranny oil and filter - do not do a flush or buy a car that ever had a tranny flush.

 

[mark0101]

Had a 95 Lincoln Continental from 72K-226K. It was an ok car but it did have lots of little issues like it needed a new fuel computer thing that would not start the car when it was cold out side. Unlike my Mark VIIIs and Town Car which don't have these little problems show up here and there. Although it NEVER left me stranded once during my ownership which can't be said about my Mark VIIIs.

Now I don't know if the newer Continental had electronic controlled suspension (you can change from Firm, normal, or plush) but my 95 had air suspension on all four wheels. Newer Continentals like you are looking at only had rear air suspension so you will never have to worry about airs springs for the front. The rear shocks are expensive because it is kinda of like the STS. Never replaced mine but I do remember that they were $400+ but I don't know if they put these on the newer Continentals. Comparing the STS and Continental, IMO Continental will not be as high maintenance as the STS.

My 95 Continental was failing apart but the newer ones seem much better, others will chip in on that. The transmission on mine started to slip at 155K, I just replaced the fluid and it went to 226K without having to replace the transmission. Still had the original motor and transmission at 226k. Let the car go because it needed a power steering pump and I didn't feel like spending anymore money into it.

Don't buy a 98, go for a 99+. Later models got C heads for more power. 260 hp vs 275 hp

 

[spliteye]

Too bad you wanting the 1998, the 1997 are the best looking and the most reliable. Read my blog/post of my running maintenance and upkeep. Tranny not that bad. Just change tranny oil and filter - do not do a flush or buy a car that ever had a tranny flush.

Thanks for the advise. Just out of curiosity, what makes the 1997 more reliable than the newer cars? Yes, I've heard that you should never actually flush an automatic transmission, just do a fluid and filter change. That's what I did with the STS. I started to notice that tcc lockup started to engage late after running down the freeway, even when the vehicle was warm, so I started to become concerned that it was soon going to need the $2,000 lockup solenoid repair.

Had a 95 Lincoln Continental from 72K-226K. It was an ok car but it did have lots of little issues like it needed a new fuel computer thing that would not start the car when it was cold out side. Unlike my Mark VIIIs and Town Car which don't have these little problems show up here and there. Although it NEVER left me stranded once during my ownership which can't be said about my Mark VIIIs.

Now I don't know if the newer Continental had electronic controlled suspension (you can change from Firm, normal, or plush) but my 95 had air suspension on all four wheels. Newer Continentals like you are looking at only had rear air suspension so you will never have to worry about airs springs for the front. The rear shocks are expensive because it is kinda of like the STS. Never replaced mine but I do remember that they were $400+ but I don't know if they put these on the newer Continentals. Comparing the STS and Continental, IMO Continental will not be as high maintenance as the STS.

My 95 Continental was failing apart but the newer ones seem much better, others will chip in on that. The transmission on mine started to slip at 155K, I just replaced the fluid and it went to 226K without having to replace the transmission. Still had the original motor and transmission at 226k. Let the car go because it needed a power steering pump and I didn't feel like spending anymore money into it.

Don't buy a 98, go for a 99+. Later models got C heads for more power. 260 hp vs 275 hp

Thanks as well. I believe the newer one did have adjustable suspension, but then again, I've never even sat in one, so my knowledge is limited to just what I've read. About the air shocks, I remember a company who was constantly advertising on the Caddy forums called Arnott Industries. Do you know anything about aftermarket air springs, quality wise? I checked their website and they sell them for a little over $100 a side, however I know that you get what you pay for. That's pretty impressive that you got and additional 71K miles out of an already slipping transmission. I'll note that the '99s and up had an extra 15hp. I'd actually like to buy as close to 2002 as possible anyway, so that works perfect.

 

[lincolnelite]

I got a 98 Continental and it's even more reliable than my 2002 lincoln ls and mercury mountaineer combined. I only have minor issues with it. The TPMS doesn't work anymore (it's outdated) and I disabled it, the rear view mirror leaked and I have to remove the glass. One of the best features of this car is the heated lumbar and butt seats, can't find that feature on any cars (only the butt has warmers)

Recently I have to replace the valve cover gaskets due to oil seeping on the plugs and the oil pan gasket. The engine is too big for the large car and space is tight so it's a PITA to work on.

I'd say they are pretty good if it was well maintained by the previous owner.

 

[spliteye]

I got a 98 Continental and it's even more reliable than my 2002 lincoln ls and mercury mountaineer combined. I only have minor issues with it. The TPMS doesn't work anymore (it's outdated) and I disabled it, the rear view mirror leaked and I have to remove the glass. One of the best features of this car is the heated lumbar and butt seats, can't find that feature on any cars (only the butt has warmers)

Recently I have to replace the valve cover gaskets due to oil seeping on the plugs and the oil pan gasket. The engine is too big for the large car and space is tight so it's a PITA to work on.

I'd say they are pretty good if it was well maintained by the previous owner.

That sounds great. How many miles have you put on it? The STS valve cover gaskets were leaking as well, into the spark plug wells. The front was also leaking onto the exhaust manifold, which caused an oil burning smell. Do you need to tilt the engine to replace the gaskets?

 

[mark0101]

Arnott also sells suspension parts for Lincoln as well. You can get air springs if your rear springs ever leak and they are good for JUST the air springs. Honestly though, I wouldn't worry about it that much. I still have my Conti sitting in my backyard fully aired on original air springs. Even if they go out, like you said, it's only 100 for the rear air spring. Then you have the shock for the rear also. These on my 95 could be firmed up electronically (again don't know about the newer models). If these need replacing, they can cost a lot of $$.

FYI... there was also a collector edition that was made for 02. Don't know what it added but would be cool to have if you spot one while looking.

 

[lincolnelite]

That sounds great. How many miles have you put on it? The STS valve cover gaskets were leaking as well, into the spark plug wells. The front was also leaking onto the exhaust manifold, which caused an oil burning smell. Do you need to tilt the engine to replace the gaskets?

It has 117k miles on it. I did the transmission flush when it was around 85k miles, the color was brownish at that time (thank God it has a dipstick for the trans!) Normally when you see it black it's not recommended to flush(too late already). I was changing all the plugs when I noticed some oil in the boots and it caused those boots to crack when pulled out. I just replaced the boots which are very cheap. No need to tilt the engine when changing oil pan gasket, just remove the exhaust.

 

[eots44]

Arnott also sells suspension parts for Lincoln as well. You can get air springs if your rear springs ever leak and they are good for JUST the air springs. Honestly though, I wouldn't worry about it that much. I still have my Conti sitting in my backyard fully aired on original air springs. Even if they go out, like you said, it's only 100 for the rear air spring. Then you have the shock for the rear also. These on my 95 could be firmed up electronically (again don't know about the newer models). If these need replacing, they can cost a lot of $$.

FYI... there was also a collector edition that was made for 02. Don't know what it added but would be cool to have if you spot one while looking.

The Collectors Edition was really just to commemorate the end of the Continental name plate since 2002 was the final year. Buick did something similar when they ended production of Roadmaster in 1996, except all 1996 Roadmaster's had the Collectors Edition Emblems and body claddings. As for what special comes with the Collectors Edition Continental, chrome rims, platinum painted grille, real Burl Walnut wood trim on steering wheel, center console, and doors, as well as a few exclusive color schemes. There was also a Limited Edition Conti for 2001 which had unique leather seats with Limited embroidered on the seats, special rims, two toned interior trim, and a 6 CD Changer, probably a few other options I didn't name.

 

[MooJohn]

Transmission fluid does break down and it's silly to expect to never flush it over the lifetime of a vehicle. Over the years I've heard the same thing about various other vehicle makes & models and it still makes no sense. Ford fluid is best changed every 30k miles or you'll have shudder problems. If you wait too long, new fluid will no longer help and you'll need a rebuild. The new fluid didn't cause that. I don't believe that the new fluid can knock enough varnish loose to cause issues. Fluid with the proper friction qualities can only help a transmission's operation.

The previous owner of my car followed that philosophy and I had to foot the bill for the rebuild. It shuddered when I bought the car and I gambled that the fluid change would fix it. It didn't, so now at 90k miles I have a full rebuild and a mean Luk torque converter, and I'm ready for another 100k miles of trouble-free driving. Since I average under 8k a year, that's a long time

BTW, when my grandmother bought a 95 Continental new that year, I swore I'd own one someday. I didn't know that day would be 18 years later but after having it for about a year and half, I'm still glad I bought it.

 

[eots44]

Transmission fluid does break down and it's silly to expect to never flush it over the lifetime of a vehicle. Over the years I've heard the same thing about various other vehicle makes & models and it still makes no sense. Ford fluid is best changed every 30k miles or you'll have shudder problems. If you wait too long, new fluid will no longer help and you'll need a rebuild. The new fluid didn't cause that. I don't believe that the new fluid can knock enough varnish loose to cause issues. Fluid with the proper friction qualities can only help a transmission's operation.

The previous owner of my car followed that philosophy and I had to foot the bill for the rebuild. It shuddered when I bought the car and I gambled that the fluid change would fix it. It didn't, so now at 90k miles I have a full rebuild and a mean Luk torque converter, and I'm ready for another 100k miles of trouble-free driving. Since I average under 8k a year, that's a long time

BTW, when my grandmother bought a 95 Continental new that year, I swore I'd own one someday. I didn't know that day would be 18 years later but after having it for about a year and half, I'm still glad I bought it.

It seems silly to me as well to expect to not have to change the trans fluid in a cars life. Owners manuals and Maintenance booklets would have told you when and what to use. For example heres what it says for a 2000 Deville.

 

[jrdnhsnbrg]

I own a 2001 Lincoln Continental which I bought in May 2013 with 161,000 miles behind her. My grandpa owned her before me and he brought her from 25,000 to 161,000 miles. Besides regular maintenance the only issues I've had is a couple ignition coils gone bad and some issues with my transmission. After driving the car for a while (say a half hour) and the transmission is up to fully operating temperature it has a hard shift from gear 2 to gear 3 and has a slight shudder while under gentle acceleration, say giving it a little gas to get up a hill on the highway. Currently, though, she is sitting gutted in the garage for some major upgrades to my sound system, I'm running 2 runs of 1/0ga wire and installing aftermarket door speakers and an amplifier for them as well as a subwoofer and amplifier for it.

 

[lincolnelite]

Ford transmissions are notorious for servo wear. You are one of those lucky guys that has transmissions lasts for over 150k. Since it's a bad design, even a yearly fluid change will not eliminate that issue.

In the continental, the v8 was mated to a weak transmission (used in taurus) so eventually the transmission fail if being used aggressively.

 

[spliteye]

Hey guys, thanks again for the great responses.

A transmission flush actually differs from a fluid change, in the fact that when you flush a transmission, you use a machine to run fluid through the transmission, which can (and has on some occasions) move dirt through the transmission and into places it doesn't belong, if not done properly. Cleaning the pan and replacing the filter first would help, however many people don't trust it all together. All I've ever done is drain the transmission, draining everything I can manage to drain, replace the filter, add a drain plug (all should have had drain plugs from the factory), and replenish with the proper fluid. I've never had a problem when doing that.

If you do feel the need to replace what's in the torque converter, lines and cooler, you can disconnect the return line and let it run into a bucket while a parter is there to shut the engine down once the fluid stops running out. I never trusted this method, as it can potentially allow the pump to be starved of fluid for a second.

In my opinion, a transmission fluid change should be done every 30-40K miles, irregardless of driving habits or the color of the fluid. I believe that the ideal operating temperature for an automatic transmission is best in the 160 degree range to 175 degree range. Some disagree, however too cold and it will create sludge, just as your engine will if it never reaches a proper operating temperature to boil out moisture in the oil. Hotter than 175 or so, the fluid life begins to deteriorate.

On the Cadillac forums the general rule of thumb was to wait for 100K miles, or until the car told you to via fluid life monitor. I always thought that was insane.

Dan

 

[eots44]

Hey guys, thanks again for the great responses.

A transmission flush actually differs from a fluid change, in the fact that when you flush a transmission, you use a machine to run fluid through the transmission, which can (and has on some occasions) move dirt through the transmission and into places it doesn't belong, if not done properly. Cleaning the pan and replacing the filter first would help, however many people don't trust it all together. All I've ever done is drain the transmission, draining everything I can manage to drain, replace the filter, add a drain plug (all should have had drain plugs from the factory), and replenish with the proper fluid. I've never had a problem when doing that.

If you do feel the need to replace what's in the torque converter, lines and cooler, you can disconnect the return line and let it run into a bucket while a parter is there to shut the engine down once the fluid stops running out. I never trusted this method, as it can potentially allow the pump to be starved of fluid for a second.

In my opinion, a transmission fluid change should be done every 30-40K miles, irregardless of driving habits or the color of the fluid. I believe that the ideal operating temperature for an automatic transmission is best in the 160 degree range to 175 degree range. Some disagree, however too cold and it will create sludge, just as your engine will if it never reaches a proper operating temperature to boil out moisture in the oil. Hotter than 175 or so, the fluid life begins to deteriorate.

On the Cadillac forums the general rule of thumb was to wait for 100K miles, or until the car told you to via fluid life monitor. I always thought that was insane.

Dan

In the 90's Cadillac also claimed the Northstar could be driven 100,000 miles before the engine's first service, and we all know how that turned out, they would blow head gaskets as early as 60,000 miles in the 90's, that limp home fail safe mode sure was cool and interesting though, if the engine didn't have any coolant it would only run one cylinder bank and have the other one air cool allowing you to drive 100 miles without causing any harm or damage to the engine, it's too bad the coolant lost when they blew head gaskets wasn't enough to cause this mode to activate, it wasn't designed for the head gasket failures though it was really just to prevent the engine from blowing up and causing other damage that's associated with loss of coolant.

 

[spliteye]

In the 90's Cadillac also claimed the Northstar could be driven 100,000 miles before the engine's first service, and we all know how that turned out, they would blow head gaskets as early as 60,000 miles in the 90's, that limp home fail safe mode sure was cool and interesting though, if the engine didn't have any coolant it would only run one cylinder bank and have the other one air cool allowing you to drive 100 miles without causing any harm or damage to the engine, it's too bad the coolant lost when they blew head gaskets wasn't enough to cause this mode to activate, it wasn't designed for the head gasket failures though it was really just to prevent the engine from blowing up and causing other damage that's associated with loss of coolant.

I found that to be interesting as well, a good feature. The Northstar is an open deck design, leaving minimal support for the head gaskets. I feel that this is one of the main reasons why the gaskets blow. What actually happens is the coolant seeps past the gaskets and into the head bolt holes. Over time, electrolysis occurs and corrodes away the treads, so the bolts "pop" and the only ways to properly repair this is to drill and re-tap the holes and instal steel inserts, drill and re-tap to a larger thread and install studs (probably the best solution), or replace the block. This typically requires engine removal, the car is lifted off the cradle and the drivetrain, front suspension, and steering come out as one unit.

Now, part of the issue too is the fact that Dexcool long life coolant is good for 5 years or 150K miles (upped from 100K), whichever comes first. People forget about the 5 year part and after that length of time, it can begin to do damage. I found records after purchase saying that my car had a coolant flush after 6 years. A little late, but not too bad. I really feel that the open deck design was the largest flaw, however in 2004-5 they did a third redesign, which had the same head bolts as the LS series engines, which seems to have solved the issue, however it's no longer in production anyway.

A tip if you ever decide to purchase a Northstar powered car-
Northstars with blown head gaskets rarely mix coolant in the oil, the only way to really test for one is by renting or purchasing an block test kit at an autoparts store and purchasing the blue fluid that changes to yellow when there's an issue. If it changes any, there's an issue. Always do this test prior to ownership. Mine was turning a greenish yellow at 103,000.

Edit: Now that I've gone back and seen that you're a Cadillac guy, I'm probably telling you things you already knew lol. Sorry about that.

 

[spliteye]

Another question for those of you that own 1998-2002 Continentals. Is there any more driver leg room in these cars over that generation Taurus? I was involved in a serious motorcycle crash a couple years ago and it left me with many issues in my left leg, one of which is it's pretty sensitive to seating positions. My main concern is that built-in footrest under the parking brake lever. I can't drive my father's for more than 15 minutes before my hip starts giving me pain. As soon as I see one locally, I'll go check it out.

 

[eots44]

I found that to be interesting as well, a good feature. The Northstar is an open deck design, leaving minimal support for the head gaskets. I feel that this is one of the main reasons why the gaskets blow. What actually happens is the coolant seeps past the gaskets and into the head bolt holes. Over time, electrolysis occurs and corrodes away the treads, so the bolts "pop" and the only ways to properly repair this is to drill and re-tap the holes and instal steel inserts, drill and re-tap to a larger thread and install studs (probably the best solution), or replace the block. This typically requires engine removal, the car is lifted off the cradle and the drivetrain, front suspension, and steering come out as one unit.

Now, part of the issue too is the fact that Dexcool long life coolant is good for 5 years or 150K miles (upped from 100K), whichever comes first. People forget about the 5 year part and after that length of time, it can begin to do damage. I found records after purchase saying that my car had a coolant flush after 6 years. A little late, but not too bad. I really feel that the open deck design was the largest flaw, however in 2004-5 they did a third redesign, which had the same head bolts as the LS series engines, which seems to have solved the issue, however it's no longer in production anyway.

A tip if you ever decide to purchase a Northstar powered car-
Northstars with blown head gaskets rarely mix coolant in the oil, the only way to really test for one is by renting or purchasing an block test kit at an autoparts store and purchasing the blue fluid that changes to yellow when there's an issue. If it changes any, there's an issue. Always do this test prior to ownership. Mine was turning a greenish yellow at 103,000.

Edit: Now that I've gone back and seen that you're a Cadillac guy, I'm probably telling you things you already knew lol. Sorry about that.

Yeah I know pretty much what to look for as Northstars go, they did get more reliable as the years go on, well I should say decades because it wasn't until 2004. I'm looking around at Devilles 2002-2005 and I was pretty much going to stay away from 90's Northstar anything cause that's when they were the worst, but I just saw a 99 Deville online and the guys says when it stared overheating he had the car sent to one of those Northstar specialists that does the studs and what not and had that done and it came with a 100,000 mile warranty on the head gaskets so that really caught my eye, usually I won't even give 90's ones a look. I've kinda switched to looking at 94-96 Fleetwoods with the LT1, found a nice 96 Fleetwood Brougham with cloth seats, I thought that was unusual to find cloth on the brougham model.

 

[spliteye]

Yeah I know pretty much what to look for as Northstars go, they did get more reliable as the years go on, well I should say decades because it wasn't until 2004. I'm looking around at Devilles 2002-2005 and I was pretty much going to stay away from 90's Northstar anything cause that's when they were the worst, but I just saw a 99 Deville online and the guys says when it stared overheating he had the car sent to one of those Northstar specialists that does the studs and what not and had that done and it came with a 100,000 mile warranty on the head gaskets so that really caught my eye, usually I won't even give 90's ones a look. I've kinda switched to looking at 94-96 Fleetwoods with the LT1, found a nice 96 Fleetwood Brougham with cloth seats, I thought that was unusual to find cloth on the brougham model.

Very unusual to find one with cloth seats, but I have seen one like that on craigslist. I believe that was the last car Cadillac even offered cloth seats in. The LT1 Fleetwood Brougham is a nice car. I remember sitting one as a kid at a local Cadillac dealer that has since been bought out twice and is now a Chevrolet dealer. So comfortable. Great sleeper.

I'd look at that '99, being it's been studded. Does he have receipts or any paperwork on the job? Is it a Concourse? I believe those had the CVRSS suspension and a center console, which I love. The struts are a very nice option, however expensive to replace, albeit you can replace them with normal struts with a resistor to trick the computer. It won't work as intended, however it could save you a couple grand. The Fleetwood would definitely be the more reliable choice, as it's basically a Caprice.

I forgot what the first engine code was that determines if the car had the final redesign of the Northstar in it, however I would try to find one of those if I were looking for a Northstar car. It was mid to late 2004 as I recall when they started putting the LSX head bolts in. Do you own a 2000 Deville?

Also, make sure you check those codes right there through the dash. Steer clear of any codes that involve torque converter lockup. Also, on 2000 and up, water crossover gaskets are another fairly common occurrence.

Too bad they had so much trouble with head gaskets, as the Northstar itself was a fantastic engine. The Bose sound system was fantastic as well. My head unit failed, so I installed a factory Nav system in mine. Loved it.

 

[eots44]

Very unusual to find one with cloth seats, but I have seen one like that on craigslist. I believe that was the last car Cadillac even offered cloth seats in. The LT1 Fleetwood Brougham is a nice car. I remember sitting one as a kid at a local Cadillac dealer that has since been bought out twice and is now a Chevrolet dealer. So comfortable. Great sleeper.

I'd look at that '99, being it's been studded. Does he have receipts or any paperwork on the job? Is it a Concourse? I believe those had the CVRSS suspension and a center console, which I love. The struts are a very nice option, however expensive to replace, albeit you can replace them with normal struts with a resistor to trick the computer. It won't work as intended, however it could save you a couple grand. The Fleetwood would definitely be the more reliable choice, as it's basically a Caprice.

I forgot what the first engine code was that determines if the car had the final redesign of the Northstar in it, however I would try to find one of those if I were looking for a Northstar car. It was mid to late 2004 as I recall when they started putting the LSX head bolts in. Do you own a 2000 Deville?

Also, make sure you check those codes right there through the dash. Steer clear of any codes that involve torque converter lockup. Also, on 2000 and up, water crossover gaskets are another fairly common occurrence.

Too bad they had so much trouble with head gaskets, as the Northstar itself was a fantastic engine. The Bose sound system was fantastic as well. My head unit failed, so I installed a factory Nav system in mine. Loved it.

The 99 Deville is just a base model, it says he has the maintenance records. It's black on black, one of my favorite colors for a caddy, the Fleetwoods are sweet cars, the last of the greats, RWD, 19ft. Long, big 350 LT1, and a full 7,000 lb towing capacity, it doesn't get much better than that, I know today 260HP doesn't seem like all that much, but you figure they started putting the LT1's in the B body's in 94 and back then that was a pretty healthy number. It is quite rare to find a Fleetwood with Cloth let alone a the Brougham model since it was top of the line trim level. It wasn't the last however, the 2000 Deville was offered with cloth seats, but was dropped for the 2001 model year. No I don't own a 2000 or well any one for that matter, I have a very large collection of Deville items though from owners manuals, the Northstar engine badges, Deville name plates, hood ornaments, original sales brochures (2000, 2002,2003), Northstar engine covers, original window stickers, and a few Northstar ads framed on the wall. In the mail is a 2004 300HP Northstar engine cover, they are probably the rarest northstar engine cover you'll find, because 2004 was the final year for the 300HP Northstar and 2004 was the only year the made a cover specific to the 300HP one also the there was only 1 car that had the 300HP Northstar for 2004 (Deville DTS) and you figure they sold about 8,000 or 10,000 of the DTS models for 2004. I guess you could call me a Northstar fan lol. Do you have a Deville? One thing I always wanted to know was if I could buy a factory nav unit online and put it in like a base model that doesn't have one, I would have also liked to swap the standard sound system for the factory Bose, do you think that's possible on a 2002-2005 base model? I am very picky about keeping the factory look. Isn't the Bose system just amazing! I have it in my 04 CTS and its such a wonderful system. My 2012 Tahoe has a Bose system too, but not as nice as the caddy. They were pretty cool, and you figure Cadillac was using a Bose system when Mercedes Benz was using Becker systems! The (2000-2005) Deville DTS and DHS used the Bose 4.0 system which came out in 1998 pretty awesome for back then!

 

[spliteye]

The 99 Deville is just a base model, it says he has the maintenance records. It's black on black, one of my favorite colors for a caddy, the Fleetwoods are sweet cars, the last of the greats, RWD, 19ft. Long, big 350 LT1, and a full 7,000 lb towing capacity, it doesn't get much better than that, I know today 260HP doesn't seem like all that much, but you figure they started putting the LT1's in the B body's in 94 and back then that was a pretty healthy number. It is quite rare to find a Fleetwood with Cloth let alone a the Brougham model since it was top of the line trim level. It wasn't the last however, the 2000 Deville was offered with cloth seats, but was dropped for the 2001 model year. No I don't own a 2000 or well any one for that matter, I have a very large collection of Deville items though from owners manuals, the Northstar engine badges, Deville name plates, hood ornaments, original sales brochures (2000, 2002,2003), Northstar engine covers, original window stickers, and a few Northstar ads framed on the wall. In the mail is a 2004 300HP Northstar engine cover, they are probably the rarest northstar engine cover you'll find, because 2004 was the final year for the 300HP Northstar and 2004 was the only year the made a cover specific to the 300HP one also the there was only 1 car that had the 300HP Northstar for 2004 (Deville DTS) and you figure they sold about 8,000 or 10,000 of the DTS models for 2004. I guess you could call me a Northstar fan lol. Do you have a Deville? One thing I always wanted to know was if I could buy a factory nav unit online and put it in like a base model that doesn't have one, I would have also liked to swap the standard sound system for the factory Bose, do you think that's possible on a 2002-2005 base model? I am very picky about keeping the factory look. Isn't the Bose system just amazing! I have it in my 04 CTS and its such a wonderful system. My 2012 Tahoe has a Bose system too, but not as nice as the caddy. They were pretty cool, and you figure Cadillac was using a Bose system when Mercedes Benz was using Becker systems! The (2000-2005) Deville DTS and DHS used the Bose 4.0 system which came out in 1998 pretty awesome for back then!

Wow, I didn't know you could get a 2000 Deville with cloth seats! I'd love to run across one of those, that must be quite rare. The Deville looks like it's a much more comfortable car than my Seville was, not that it was uncomfortable.

I've never owned a Deville, however I'd love a DTS with Nav. Really a pretty car. My neighbor has a 2005 and it's been a good car. It really hits the wallet hard when things go wrong, however they don't do any of their own work on it. I know that it needed a rear strut replaced and the coolant crossover gaskets. That totaled over $1,500, but a dealer may charge upwards of $130/hr around here to repair an average car, and the parts most likely weren't over $400 for that job.

I'm very picky about the factory look as well. I think you must have a Bose equipped car to install a factory nav system. It's a pretty complex system that I still don't completely understand. I know the Bose cars have a separate amp and the head unit does nothing, except provide a user interface, buttons and a DVD drive. It doesn't even really provide the clock, the driver information module does. User N*Caddy over on the Cadillac forums is the know all for this upgrade.

The nav system that came in the 2002 and up vehicles is the one to get. You need to make a jumper harness (or modify the harness in the car, which is not recommended) and on some vehicles splice a wire with the vss wire behind the cluster. I got lucky on mine, the vss wire was already at the harness. After install, many times the car will need to be taken to the dealer (or someone with a techII), to unlock the theftlock system. You will not be able to use it until then. You can also disassemble the head unit and unsolder the backup battery, then reload the firmware, which you can find on the forums or by talking to N*Caddy. Once again, I got lucky. My nav unit had been sitting outside of the Deville it was pulled from for a long enough period of time to where the battery drained enough to allow it to loose the theftlock security and firmware. I just made a dvd with the firmware, ran it, and it all worked great, steering wheel controls and all.

I'm sure you could put a nav system in an older Deville, however it all depends on how much work you want to do and money you want to spend. On the topic of whether or not you could install just a Bose system in a base model car, I really am not completely sure, however I recall people asking that same question and that it was a pretty major upgrade, as it's not just a hu and an amp, it's integrated into the car.

I wish I was a little more educated on it.

 

[eots44]

Wow, I didn't know you could get a 2000 Deville with cloth seats! I'd love to run across one of those, that must be quite rare. The Deville looks like it's a much more comfortable car than my Seville was, not that it was uncomfortable.

I've never owned a Deville, however I'd love a DTS with Nav. Really a pretty car. My neighbor has a 2005 and it's been a good car. It really hits the wallet hard when things go wrong, however they don't do any of their own work on it. I know that it needed a rear strut replaced and the coolant crossover gaskets. That totaled over $1,500, but a dealer may charge upwards of $130/hr around here to repair an average car, and the parts most likely weren't over $400 for that job.

I'm very picky about the factory look as well. I think you must have a Bose equipped car to install a factory nav system. It's a pretty complex system that I still don't completely understand. I know the Bose cars have a separate amp and the head unit does nothing, except provide a user interface, buttons and a DVD drive. It doesn't even really provide the clock, the driver information module does. User N*Caddy over on the Cadillac forums is the know all for this upgrade.

The nav system that came in the 2002 and up vehicles is the one to get. You need to make a jumper harness (or modify the harness in the car, which is not recommended) and on some vehicles splice a wire with the vss wire behind the cluster. I got lucky on mine, the vss wire was already at the harness. After install, many times the car will need to be taken to the dealer (or someone with a techII), to unlock the theftlock system. You will not be able to use it until then. You can also disassemble the head unit and unsolder the backup battery, then reload the firmware, which you can find on the forums or by talking to N*Caddy. Once again, I got lucky. My nav unit had been sitting outside of the Deville it was pulled from for a long enough period of time to where the battery drained enough to allow it to loose the theftlock security and firmware. I just made a dvd with the firmware, ran it, and it all worked great, steering wheel controls and all.

I'm sure you could put a nav system in an older Deville, however it all depends on how much work you want to do and money you want to spend. On the topic of whether or not you could install just a Bose system in a base model car, I really am not completely sure, however I recall people asking that same question and that it was a pretty major upgrade, as it's not just a hu and an amp, it's integrated into the car.

I wish I was a little more educated on it.

Yeah I didn't know about the 2000's having cloth until I picked up a 2000 sales brochure. I saw a 2000 Deville in Polo Green with cloth seats a few years ago and I was so confused because I didn't know that then. From what I understand to find one with cloth is very rare indeed as dealership would have stocked up on the leather models and very few owners would have wanted to opt for cloth (hence why it was shortly dropped) I love DTS's and would love to get a clean 04 with nav and night vision in blue chip, the blue chip is such a beautiful color I looked at a 2008 DTS LUX III in blue chip back in March and it was just gorgeous. I am mainly looking at base models because of the costly repairs for DTS models. To do all 4 struts is like a $5,000 or $6,000 job! I like the look of the base with the hood ornament and I love the way the 2003-2005 base chrome rims look. I've never driven an STS, but I did get a 2003 Deville as a loaner car back in the day and it was just one of the best riding cars I've ever driven and so comfortable. People give these cars a lot of hell and say they're old people cars, but that's not true at all, you lay into them and they just want to go like there no tomorrow, I'm sure you know you have or had a STS! A few years later they gave me an 07 DTS performance as a loaner cars, and that was a fun package as well, and I remember that was like brand new only had like 100 miles on it. Don't even get me started on the sound they make ugh it's amazing! If it wasn't for the head gasket issues, and leaking and burning of oil I would have owned 10 of them by now. I talk to a lot of owners of 2000-2005 Deville's around town and they love them, they always love talking to me because they usually share the same passion for them, they all feel the same way I do about the new XTS and that it just isn't a good enough car to replace the DTS and STS. Well if I get a base model I probably won't mess with stereo system that much because I forgot about all that stuff I would have to do the standard systems are pretty nice anyway.