My first Mark VIII Project

[LandYachts]

Have kind of lusted over these cars for a few years, mostly because they were Lincoln's latest PERSONAL luxury vehicle. I derive the most pleasure from my car's pampering features and ergonomics, so it's only magnified whenever everything is driver-oriented.

I test drove two before this one, and they're all the same. None are as impressive as everybody makes them out to be as far as performance. My Town Car is 1,000lbs heavier and about 55hp short but it REALLY moves when it kicks down a gear. Even my Mark V felt faster than this car.

Oh well, I am going to enjoy my comforts at least.

I currently have the interior stripped so that I can clean it, re-dye the worn leather, make repair to the mounting or retaining tabs on certain pieces and paint any worn pieces as well.

My plans are as follows:

1. Install MVH-1400NEX double DIN head unit. MAYBE a backup camera as well.

2. Replace torn headliner.

3. Install remote start, with a push-button starter in place of the key cylinder.

4. Upgrade to dual crossover exhaust with Magnaflow mild mufflers.

5. Polish headlights and CNC fabricate an adapter for 9006 HID bulbs.

Let me know any advice you guys can send my way. I love the car so far, just haven't driven it much considering it's in so many pieces.

 

[LandYachts]

I couldn't very well drive it much anyway, considering the seat does not go forward and the steering wheel does not extend. I'm already on my way to solving these. I believe my seat gearbox will need to be opened and I'll need to replace a gear or two. I tested moving the gear manually and it doesn't really engage anything in there using the same square peg as the electric motor.

The steering wheel is a project for another day.

My first priority for weeks now has been finding the right headliner. Once the headliner is in, the rear panels, parcel shelf, and newly conditioned rear seats can all go in.

I didn't like the options for headliner foam that I found. At first I was thinking a basket-weave or lace pattern like modern cars (stiff rigid fabric). But I was trying to find a matching ivory color in anything and I just happened to stumble on this faux suede. I took it for $7/yd. and haven't regretted it thus far. I should have it sprayed and in place tomorrow.

Q: How can I make the nap stand on end without necessarily going one direction or the other? Real suede shoes or nubuck seam to have no nap direction until you touch them, they're very good at standing on end.

Q: Since one of the gears is stripped in my seat gearbox, are there any easier solutions besides breaking the rivets and diving in?

Q: As you can see, the outboard bolster of the driver's seat is worn to much that the foam is dangling and loosely hinged. What is the easiest repair for this foam?

 

[Sincoln]

I had a '96 base for years and it was a solid lower 14 sec car. It always had custom-cut fresh plugs, full synthetic oil, fresh air and fuel filter, trans fluid done, freer flowing and lighter rear mufflers, rear diff oil changed, etc.. I lowered mine early on. which REALLY helped with the coefficient drag and still respectable MPG numbers by today's standards of 32-33 highway (after all the mods, it went from 28 to 33 highway with cruise on and perfectly flat roads at 70 mph) and 18-20 city depending how much it was babied.

Cars I beat with it were stuff like the 07' Nissan Maxima 3.5L (was brand new at the time) which was a 14.3 car IIRC. Beat him by about a car and a half (I had a slightly better reaction time leaving the stop light) up to about 100mph where he pulled out of it. Had we been side by side, our cars were evenly matched (not gaining/loosing ground). Highway smoked a poor SVT Contour that someone had invested some time in. Smoked a Marauder. One of the more surprising ones was a 2010 SHO. To be fair, I was putting along at 35-40 mph when this old guy was in one and tailing me hard for some reason in the right lane no less. I saw he was finally trying to pass in the left lane so I stood on it. He couldn't pass me and pulled out of it around 80~. Had originally thought it was a base Taurus, but saw the SHO lettering after I slowed enough and he went by.

All in all, it wasn't "bad" vs. cars of the late 90's up to the '10's (talking every day cars) for what it was and how heavy it was. You really need a solid twin screw supercharger though if you want to compete against faster cars, etc..

Can pull a couple hundred pounds out by ditching the factory front seats (weigh around 75 pounds EACH) and another 35 pounds from the spare tire, about 10 pounds for jack and lug wrench, and I think the mufflers were something disgusting like 45 pounds EACH. The resonator weighs something like 8-10 pounds too.

Pull all the weight out and replace with light-as-possible replacements, and you can probably subtract 250-280 pounds off the curb weight assuming replacement seats weigh near nothing. Curbweight was around 3600-3700 depending on the car, how full the tank was, etc.. Lighter weight rims and tires would make a difference too, as would something like 3:73's to 4:10's if willing to sacrifice top-end speed.

 

[Svets96]

Good job, on restoring your Mark VIII.

As far as the interior goes, the seats and such, I can't really be of much help.

Although, the headliner, I think matches the interior code trim in the VIN or door sticker. Any upholstery shop can color match. If you already are happy with the option you had chosen its all good.

The seat foam any upholstery shop can also do this. I want to point you toward Temple Performance and Super coupe performance, they specialize in many resto parts for Mark VIII's. Including the interior. Links: Mark VIII Muscle Super Coupe Performance Parts| Hoods / Leather / Carpet / Rubber Seals / More

You can buy a new gear assembly if you can't salvage one. You have to determine if its to much money or not for new. At least you know its like brand new.

Here is a google link for the seat gears: drivers seat gear box 1997 Lincoln mark viii - Google Search

Hope this helps. Keep on the updates.

 

[LandYachts]

...

I think I may have given you the idea that I'm chasing trap times. Really I just wanted something that would pull the slack out of my pants, but it will do fine either way. Besides, i don't feel bad for putting more vocal pipes on it. I wouldn't ever bring myself to put the magnaflows on the town car but now I can let my V8 sing.

You can buy a new gear assembly if you can't salvage one. You have to determine if its to much money or not for new. At least you know its like brand new.

Wow I hadn't even considered looking, since it seemed that the unit appears to be permanently affixed. Thanks. That's a bargain though! Unfortunately the majority of the budget is going to re-dying all of that neglected leather.

I should mention that when I rebuild things, they tend to be better than new or better than replacements. I can't wait to clean the motors up and re-grease the gears.

When the door lock actuators start failing, I just split them open, pull the motor, open that and remove the thermistor. I replace it with a CNC cut piece of pure copper and my doors lock with such a strong, sure and quick snap it sounds like opening a switch blade. I also adjust the exterior door handles so that they open the door as easily as pressing eject on a tape deck. Then I lock the adjustment rod in place using a nut. Now I need to figure out how to take the slack out of the interior handles since this one uses a cable!

Oh by the way I am a CNC operator.

 

[germansheperd]

3.73’s or 4.1’s as states above (I have 3.73’s but wished I had gone 4.1’s instead)
good dyno tune
Underdrive pulleys
J-mod

The car will be a completely different animal. Drive like stock around town and run more like you’d expect it too-ask me how I know.

Don’t believe the gears will take away top speed they wont, they will ‘put you in your power band’.

 

[LandYachts]

Don’t believe the gears will take away top speed they wont, they will ‘put you in your power band’.

How's your fuel economy if you aren't getting into it? The top speed is definitely affected, as the LSC has a lower top speed for instance.

I've considered the underdrive kit, but as far as I know it affects the A/C and alternator. I'd wait and look up more input from people that have done it but I do like the idea.

 

[Svets96]

I think I may have given you the idea that I'm chasing trap times. Really I just wanted something that would pull the slack out of my pants, but it will do fine either way. Besides, i don't feel bad for putting more vocal pipes on it. I wouldn't ever bring myself to put the magnaflows on the town car but now I can let my V8 sing.



Wow I hadn't even considered looking, since it seemed that the unit appears to be permanently affixed. Thanks. That's a bargain though! Unfortunately the majority of the budget is going to re-dying all of that neglected leather.

I should mention that when I rebuild things, they tend to be better than new or better than replacements. I can't wait to clean the motors up and re-grease the gears.

When the door lock actuators start failing, I just split them open, pull the motor, open that and remove the thermistor. I replace it with a CNC cut piece of pure copper and my doors lock with such a strong, sure and quick snap it sounds like opening a switch blade. I also adjust the exterior door handles so that they open the door as easily as pressing eject on a tape deck. Then I lock the adjustment rod in place using a nut. Now I need to figure out how to take the slack out of the interior handles since this one uses a cable!

Oh by the way I am a CNC operator.

That's awesome, being a CNC operator. You'll never have any problems you know how to fix.

 

[LandYachts]

This should go in tonight. Should.

 

[Svets96]

Wow did that color match come out perfect! That's gonna look real good.

 

[Sincoln]

Sorry, wrote wrong curb weight. 3700 would be the lower end after pulling some things like mufflers and low fuel. 3800-4000 would be the norm with an adult driver and full tank IIRC (mine was constantly going over scales).

At least consider lighter front seats (hopefully yours don't have airbags else it'll trip the airbag light). When I replaced my carpet (I went with a similar shade as yours, Summit Racing has a vendor that offers carpet for these) I left my passenger seat out for a while and I could definitely tell 75 pounds had been dropped.

I never once took mine to a 1/4 mile track. Was mainly squeaking minor performance bumps out of it and increasing MPG as it saw tons of highway trips. IF you can ever find '89 Probe Front seats anywhere, those things are about as comfortable as you can get for non electric Ford. I plopped some '92 SHO seats from my SHO into my old '79 Mustang Cobra (1st year Fox, not the Charle's Angels Cobra II) and the electric wiring on those was a 2 wire affair (12v+ and Neg) as everything was controlled by the seat. Both seats were more comfortable than the stock Mark VIII. The earlier 90's Thunderbirds had more plush seats than the Mark too.

Realize you aren't shooting for anything other than a refresh-resto, but pulling some weight out of the 3800+ curbweight while waking it up a bit, will make it more enjoyable.

As mentioned with the pulley kits; I ran a large custom alt on mine (290 amp IIRC) and no ONE offered a pulley to correct the idle turn-on for it. I went through Summit Racing and was put in contact with one of their suppliers that does the under pulley kits, and they were able to custom-cut an alt pulley for me that allowed it to charge at roughly 200 rpm sooner, so the giant rewound alt would charge at idle around 650 vs 850-900.

IF you want to run an aftermarket pulley kit, but do NOT want to sacrifice everything being under driven, those companies have the ability to custom-tailor a kit for you, though it'll cost more. Think I paid about $85 just for that custom alt pulley, but it was definitely worth it.

Sorry about the rant, GL with the build!

 

[LandYachts]

This is good information. Glad I didn't jump into that stuff too early in. I'll come back when I am ready to boost the output.

Here it is, and for being a piece that was found on the rack, it matches amazingly well to the factory plastic. I could only be happier if it didn't get some bubbles while it was curing. There is a small streak of them and no way I can think to flatten it out.

If I did it again, I'd glue the suede to the foam first, so that there is more rigidity to work with when laying it out and rubbing it smooth.

 

[Svets96]

Looks really good.

Sometimes its hard to "iron" out the wrinkles, when doing things like this. You did a hell of a job.

 

[PenGun]

Yeah Gen 2s are slugs. Its fine, they are lovely cars.

 

[LandYachts]

Yeah Gen 2s are slugs. Its fine, they are lovely cars.

What makes the early ones faster? Just the primary/secondary type throttle?

 

[LandYachts]

The seat doesn't move forward. I can hear the motor move whenever it tries to move at all so that's the bad news.

I took the motors apart and cleaned the commutators. Because the forward/backward drive motor is the most worn, I switched the windings and brushes over so that one with a bit more meat could go to the most used function.

There was so much carbon build up on the forward/back motor I had to thoroughly clean all of its components.

Turns out these worm gears are both worn out. I would need to replace both and it should work fine. For now I'll look to see if it's possible to buy the gearbox without the motors to save some scratch.

 

[slowmkviii]

Nice job look forward to seeing more and much more pictures

 

[germansheperd]

How's your fuel economy if you aren't getting into it? The top speed is definitely affected, as the LSC has a lower top speed for instance.

I've considered the underdrive kit, but as far as I know it affects the A/C and alternator. I'd wait and look up more input from people that have done it but I do like the idea.

Fuel economy is fine car still gets 24mpg at 70mph.
A/C is fine with the UD pulleys, light are just a bit dimmer at idle but its never at idle 99% of the time.
A tune will take out the top speed limiter on an OBD II car. I promise you the top speed on my 3.73 Car is WAY HIGHER than a stock base or any other LSC.

 

[LandYachts]

I have very little to update as I'm waiting to tackle the seat-belt webbing before I install the rear panels and seats. They will have to be thoroughly deep-cleaned and I may even use steam, and then wound tighter so they retract properly. I'm also going to remove the middle belts from the sleeves that they share with the other buckles and tuck them so that they will be out of the way but accessible for that 0.01% occurrence that I have a full bench.

So for today I just cleaned a bunch of the plastic in the tub. I use Dawn dish soap, a vinyl scrubbing brush, Mr. Clean magic erasers (I can believe it's magic), and in some cases I use mineral spirits to clean up oils, greases and plastic or paint transfers.

I had to reattach the bosses that are used for the screws and push-rivets. It seems that almost all of these are broken on every Mark VIII I encounter. Pretty common, maybe it is a flaw?

Anyway, some cyanoacrylate and baking soda made the bosses so stiff that I can hold this seat trim piece horizontally holding just the boss. As well, I filled a small missing chunk in the front of the trim piece with the baking soda and then dropped some CA there. I smoothed it out so that it dried without leaving any sheen or texture. I'm happy with how good it looks and don't feel the need to paint unless I find a killer plastic dye that would match.

Before and After images are probably my favorite use for the internet.

 

[unity]

If you CNC your own HID adapters, be careful. Most that people have made are flawed. They think the OEM lamp is offset, its not. The outer protective glass is because of one of the leads to the top end of the lamp. But the discharge point is actually centered. Yet many people created adapters for newer lamps that dont have the butter protective glass envelope. So there was this visual disconnect that some could not see.

 

[LandYachts]

If you CNC your own HID adapters, be careful. Most that people have made are flawed. They think the OEM lamp is offset, its not. The outer protective glass is because of one of the leads to the top end of the lamp. But the discharge point is actually centered. Yet many people created adapters for newer lamps that dont have the butter protective glass envelope. So there was this visual disconnect that some could not see.

Can you post a comparison of the bulbs you're referring to?

 

[PenGun]

What makes the early ones faster? Just the primary/secondary type throttle?

The computer mainly. My W3Z2 allows unlimited speed and I get 6 grand in first gear. She has done 240 Km/h, almost lost the sun roof.

The 3.08 rear end makes fast easy and I think it has the best performance out of the box. They steadily nerfed that as they produced more cars.

They took a 93, shaved the mirrors and did 183 mph at Bonneville. Nuf said?

 

[LandYachts]

The computer mainly. My W3Z2 allows unlimited speed and I get 6 grand in first gear. She has done 240 Km/h, almost lost the sun roof.

The 3.08 rear end makes fast easy and I think it has the best performance out of the box. They steadily nerfed that as they produced more cars.

They took a 93, shaved the mirrors and did 183 mph at Bonneville. Nuf said?

I'm aware of the record-setter. But I doubt I'd ever have enough stretch of road or even such an inkling. What I do like is the jack-rabbit take off of a torquey engine. You mention the 3.08, could that also be called a 3.07? I understand sometimes fractions get rounded one way or the other. As far as I can see, all Mark VIII base models have the 3.07 and only the LSC has a different ratio; 3.27.

So regarding acceleration, what is the difference?

 

[PenGun]

I just Googled a stock Mark VIII rear end and got 3.08. Close enough. You don't see how fast your cars go? Must be an old school thing.

I dunno, I used to field a Cutlass with a 502 and a fairly tall rear end. The front end started to lift off around 135 and it was far too exciting to go faster, without some serious work, although it probably had 160 odd in it.

It was quick too. Not things I especially wanted from my Mark VIII. Luxury cruising is what she was designed to do and mine sure did a great job at that.

Now I'm hooliganing a 2017 Fiesta. My grocery getter is a go cart.

 

[91 LSC SE]

None are as impressive as everybody makes them out to be as far as performance. My Town Car is 1,000lbs heavier and about 55hp short but it REALLY moves when it kicks down a gear. Even my Mark V felt faster than this car.

I have to disagree. I have a Mark VII with the 5L H.O. and believe your Town Car has the non-H.O. motor going from your note above.
Your TC may feel faster, but if you line them up, you of course will see a big difference. Your TC has an older transmission just as the Mark V does. I'll bet the TC has a solid rear axle too. The M8 may not feel as fast, but that is due to Lincoln refining the HP through the transmission and IRS. I too have driven a Town Car same gen as your Mark V, which I'll bet yours had a 460 (7.5L) and the one I drove geared down at 85 mph when you put her to the floor. Felt like she would lift herself right off the payment and start flying. If you want to feel the raw power, do what others have suggested here with the jmod, gears, etc and I would go one more and recommend a T56 (6 speed). I took my Trans Am GTA from auto (700R4) to T56 and still do not believe it's the same car.
Hey Great job on the repairs you are completing! Nice work!!