My Dream Lincoln LS Project and Engine Swap (Hypothesis/Proposal)

Lincoln LS

  1. lurk_

    lurk_ New LVC Member

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    Overview:

    So I am here to start a discussion about a dream I’ve been having ever since I bought my current LS. I have been a fan of this site for a long time and I find it amazing that there is a place for all us LS fanatics to geek out with each other. I am going to do my best to outline what I have so far. I am hopefully looking for people that can offer some helpful feedback on what steps I should be taking, and if what I’m proposing is even possible. Now, I have already read many of the threads explaining the basic mods, and that is not what I am looking to cover.

    The Dream:

    I, like many others, have always thought the LS needed a bit more power. Now 282hp isn’t that small of a number, but when its combined with the weight of a luxury car like the LS, it comes up a bit short. I contemplated following in the footsteps of Alax when he turbocharged his, but that would require a ton of custom work totaling a large bill when it’s all said and done. I am willing to do a bit of custom work, or getting some done, but preferably to a lesser degree. I did some research on the 2006 LS engine (Jaguar AJ-V8), and I also saw a lot of people suggesting Jaguar parts fit on the LS (due to Ford and Jaguar sharing the platform that the LS was constructed on). This got me thinking about which cars shared the LS's platform (Ford DEW98).

    The list consisted of the following cars:

    2000–2008 Jaguar S-Type
    2000–2006 Lincoln LS
    2002–2005 Ford Thunderbird
    2008– Jaguar XF

    That last one immediately caught my eye. After cross referencing whish cars the AJ-V8 was used in, the 2009 Jaguar XF came up once again. Now I’m sure that those of you reading this fall into one of three categories.

    (1) I already knew that, tell me something I don’t already know.
    (2) I honestly didn’t know that, interesting.
    (3) I couldn’t care less, shut up and get to the point.

    I'm sure some of you can see the idea forming in my head right about now. The point I’m trying to get at is this... I had the thought of dropping the Jaguar 4.2L supercharged AJ-V8 into a 2nd Gen LS. The concerns I have at the moment are as follows:

    - Whether or not the engine mounts will be in the same location for both engines.
    - Whether or not the larger 4.2L w/ the supercharger set up will even fit in the LS's engine bay
    - The mechanical connections... Ex: transmission, driveline, etc.

    The Dream Pt.2:

    This next part is assuming that the swap is even remotely possible...

    I have been in love with my LS since I bought it (despite its many problems), and unfortunately, I don’t think the car I currently have will be a good starting point for this project. My original plan was to buy a lower mileage 2006 V8 LS Sport to use as a starting point. As I was looking around in my area for potential candidates and I quickly started to realize the cars I were looking at were way to mint to just tear apart for some experiment.

    My first solution to this problem was to just find a non-running LS that had a body that was in decent shape, and was likely to be parted out. The problem I ran into with this was that the only cars available were the gen1's. This isn’t a deal breaker considering the biggest differences between the two generations were the power increases. However, I would prefer some of the nicer trims and options that come on the gen2's.

    My second solution is the one I prefer, but it's a bit more farfetched... The V6 gen2's sell for really cheap around me, I was thinking that if I were to pick up a V6 that was in good shape I could make something work from there. My concerns about this were mainly if there were any real differences between the V6 and V8 other than the engine, tranny, and trim. I figured that because I would be replacing the engine anyway, I would be able to toss the V6 and grab some sport trim off a V8 model?

    Conclusions:

    I wanted to get some thoughts/ideas from some of you guys about the probability of my idea. Please only offer constructive responses. I know most of you guys are awesome and respectful, but I'm only looking to toss around the idea. Then potentially put this idea into fruition if the response is positive enough.

    To recap... My current best idea is to drop the 4.2 supercharged AJ into a gutted V6, followed by misc mods.

    I will post some specs I managed to acquire after my initial research...

    I look forward to brainstorming with you guys!!

    View attachment 828476297
     
  2. FDR

    FDR Dedicated LVC Member

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    Drop a 4.2SC into a V6... are you planning on redoing all of the wires and use a standalone PCM on this route? I don't see ANY advantage to starting with a V6 LS to drop in a V8 of any kind unless you're building a racer or live in a non-inspecting state. If the advantage is saving a grand or two, then this project is not for you.

    The 4.2SC has different, stronger internals than the 3.9/4.0/4.2 NA engines and, more importantly, a lower compression ratio. The small size and high compression ratio is one of the largest reasons boosting the LS is so difficult.

    The Jag 4.0 and 4.2 are relatively similar to the 3.9. I don't think the mounting points are any different if you get an S-type variant, but I may be wrong, as the Gen 2/3 S-type has a different forward subframe.

    Forget anything related to the Jag 5.0L V8 (AJ133/134/S/whatever), as it shares little more than the series name with the AJxx V8s (unless going down the racer/standalone PCM/non-inspection state/good sticker scraping skills route)

    This project is easy. It just takes several thousand dollars and the willingness to let your car sit at a competent, compliant shop for a few months
     
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    • LS4me

      LS4me Dedicated LVC Member

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      Mechanicals... Pretty easy.... Electronics... Not so much. Like FDR said...

      Check out the problems the Lincoln engineers had with the One Lap of America LS. Also the LSx thread.
       
    • Kumba

      Kumba Dedicated LVC Member

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      Easiest option (and still probably cheapest) is getting a super-charged 4.2 out of an S-Type R and putting it in the LS. Just get the long block minus the accessories and adapt the LS ones to fit. If you have a Gen2 you might have to do some trickery with the electronics to make the variable valve train think it works or figure out how to turn that off/ignore it in the computer. Alternatively you can try putting the 3.9 heads on the 4.2 and retaining the VVT.

      Anything else is basically going to be using a standalone computer or spending who knows how long to adapt all the electronics. I've only seen the electronics adapted to a different engine done once successfully. Dwiggy was able to put a 302 Windsor into a Gen1 LS by adapting some circuits and cross referencing other stock sensors from an explorer. If you can get sensors with a similar output, then in theory you can make other engines work with the stock PCM, although the Gen1 has that whole computer-driven alternator that's a pain, and the Gen2 would require a compatible electronic throttle body.
       
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      • oddball

        oddball Dedicated LVC Member

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        Your plan works fine for mechanical fit. Springs *might* be different on a V6, and you won't find Sport shocks, but otherwise the platform is the same.
        As noted, the problem is the computer. Top of my list would be finding someone willing to deeply hack the stock LS PCM. There's such a small market that no one spends much time on it.

        An alternative is recreating QwikLS's build. He documented it pretty well on here back in '08 (or so?) where he added a Jag SC to the 3.9 engine. Although that was a Gen1 IIRC? A rear tie rod broke on the highway, totalling the car. Qwik thankfully walked away.
         
      • LS6_5SPD

        LS6_5SPD Dedicated LVC Member

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        Isn't Ken's a 4.2 swapped LS?
         
      • cammerfe

        cammerfe Dedicated LVC Member

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        I haven't put it in yet although I have an engine setting in my storage. I am going on the basis that if I use all Lincoln-based inputs the 'hardware' can be anything you want to use. Jaguar 'blower' motors don't have VVT. They thought the blower gave enough torque at all times that the VVT was unnecessary.

        KS
         
      • Kumba

        Kumba Dedicated LVC Member

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        VVT doesn't do much on a super-charged engine. It's more useful for NA and Turbo.
         
      • FDR

        FDR Dedicated LVC Member

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        I believe the springs are all the same, but the front shocks and sway bars depend on both trim and engine. How different are they? I don't know, but seeing as how the Sport V6 sway bar is only 1 or 2mm larger than the V8, I can't see there being any appreciable difference.

        Quik used a Thunderbird Eaton supercharger (M90? M80?). The StR uses a larger charger. He fabbed up a custom intake manifold. Yes, Gen 1
         
      • LS4me

        LS4me Dedicated LVC Member

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        OP seems to be MIA....

        Smelling a little fishy...
         
      • DeviLSh

        DeviLSh Dedicated LVC Member

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        Based on my last 3-4 years of looking into this (I think I have every thread on LVC saved in my personal archive), the aj34s from the STR is probably the best idea. If you have a donor STR and a non running 06, would probably be the most cost effective. Like the others said, you'll have to turn off VVT if you retain the LS's ECU. (which would be easiest, as the two chassis systems between cars are not compatible between S-Type and LS).

        Lately though, I have been interested in the 4.2 NA jag (AJ34?) motor from the later S-Type. they pop up pretty cheap every once and a while.
         
      • lurk_

        lurk_ New LVC Member

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        Sorry guys, was a little busy yesterday. I do appreciate all of your input.

        Based on what the majority of you said, I think i'll just go ahead and start with the v8. Better to spend a little extra money to make sure this project is done right. As FDR said "This project is easy. It just takes several thousand dollars and the willingness to let your car sit at a competent, compliant shop for a few months" ... I certainly agree. I have a basic understanding of the LS and cars in general, which is why i came here to ask questions. So i will most likely have a shop take care of the work i wouldnt be comfortable doing myself.

        I guess now the search begins for a suitable LS to start the project with. Might take some time to find the "right" one. I'll also keep my eye out for a decent deal on the 4.2SC.

        Would any of you suggest getting an aftermarket ECU over the stock one in the LS? Seeing as oddball and Kumba said theres a pretty small market for people willing to deal with the stock ECU..

        And thanks again for the feedback, you've given me far more insight than i couldve asscertained on my own. I will also take a deeper look at the threads you guys suggested.
         
      • joegr

        joegr Dedicated LVC Member

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        If you lose the stock PCM, you will lose the stock gauges, climate control, transmission, ABS, AdvanceTrac, ...
         
      • LS4me

        LS4me Dedicated LVC Member

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        Or power windows, radio, power seats, rear window defroster, power mirrors, memory function... Virtually anything electrical.

        The other problem is the PCM in each LS is unique to that LS. There is no way to "chip" the PCM. All the parameters are burned into unique locations on the board. The reason it's difficult to get a programmer to work on the LS is that car-specific uniqueness. Not that it can't be done; just that it turns out to be cost-prohibitive.

        IMHO, your best bet is what has been suggested. Adapt the LS sensors to the Jag engine.

        Why not do it the easy way and just get ab S-Type R????
         
      • grizzlyls

        grizzlyls Dedicated LVC Member

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        If I ever rob a bank, and get wacky, just curious on my Gen1 would I be able to put in the S type R (with that sensor adapt bit)?
         
      • LSV8FAN

        LSV8FAN Active LVC Member

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        How about the rest of the drive train: transmission, driveshaft, differential, half-shafts, etc.

        Will that be able to take the additional HP or will it need to be also upgraded?
         
      • cammerfe

        cammerfe Dedicated LVC Member

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        Probably a good idea to go to the 8.8 in the GenI dif. Then you can have limited slip. Might make sense to go to a 1-piece DS. Both of these upgrades are to be found in the archives here.

        I've put 400+ HP through the stock stuff with no failures but I've not done much more to the trans than re-flash to raise the line pressure and alter shift points. The 5R55N trans will carry 800+ with the right improvements. Basic rule is that 'if it doesn't slip it won't go bang'.

        KS
         
      • pragmatic

        pragmatic Dedicated LVC Member

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        Why waste the time. The Chevrolet SS is available new.
         
      • joegr

        joegr Dedicated LVC Member

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        That's the biggest problem with all these proposed projects that go nowhere. The cost to benefit equation just doesn't work compared to other options.
         
      • Kumba

        Kumba Dedicated LVC Member

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        That's why it helps to be "in love" with the car, that way you can do irrational (read: stupid/crazy) things like try to mod it. :)
         
      • FDR

        FDR Dedicated LVC Member

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        You say "helps", I say "cripples"
        Like FDR himself.
         
      • tijoe

        tijoe Active LVC Member

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        Latest Jaguar S-type LSX engine swap that is in the works. Swapper hasn't stated what he is going to to electrically.

        http://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...guar-s-type-turbo-ls-swap-165122/#post1492834

        Not much to add regarding what has been already posted. But if you really really really love your LS, have a year of project time and $10K to $15K sitting around you want to put into your car, go for some sort of engine swap. But plan it out based on the electrical and engine control system before you commit to the engine you want to install.
         
      • tijoe

        tijoe Active LVC Member

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        Clarification about VVT in the 4.2 Jaguar Supercharged engines. 2003-2005 did not have VVT. Later model 4.2L supercharged engines do have VVT. The were able to get another 5 hp out of these engines. As stated earlier, the newer 5.0 Jaguar engines are completely different than the 4.2L engines. The new engines have VVT in both the intake and exhaust, allowing higher lift cams that still meet emission requirements.

        The biggest problem with the 03-05 STR engines it that it is really hard to find a dropout that has less than 75K miles on it. I wouldn't use any engine with over 100K miles as my baseline for an engine swap. Therefore a rebuild would be required. If you have to rebuild the engine, it will take too long and cost too much.
        Therefore it is better to go with an LSX series Chevy engine or some other main-stream V8. Either path you take you will have the engine control problem versus functionality of the rest of the car's electrical. Kind of sucks how modern cars are "swap limited" due to their ECM/body control modules and new CAN systems.
         
        Last edited: Jul 25, 2016
      • cammerfe

        cammerfe Dedicated LVC Member

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        Use any chibrolay and you end up with a belly button.

        KS

        I had no trouble finding a 2004 with 60K miles. But that WAS several months ago.

        It's now 1:06 and I have all spec's on a 2004 'R' engine for sale. 47K miles, for 3K$. I guess I should have waited!
         
      • tijoe

        tijoe Active LVC Member

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        For the $3k, does it have the supercharger, harness and all the accessories? Over the past year I have seen several low mileage STR engines that show a picture of the complete engine, for a good price, but when you ask them it is basically a long block.

        I purchased an 04 STR engine 8 months ago with 70K miles for $2400. I call it the "refresh engine" for my 03 S-type R I purchased with a blown engine.
        I have it torn apart and am slowly putting on new timing chains, tensioners, hoses, new supercharger bearings and a new pulley. (Close to $1k in parts so far)
        Dang, if I was able to locate one with that few of miles, I would have purchased it and installed it directly.

        One important comment from a reliability perspective for anyone considering using a Supercharged Jaguar engine, make sure you spend the extra time and money to replace the infamous bypass water line that routes beneath the supercharger to the back of the engine. Many engines have been destroyed because of a leak in this line.
         
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