Missing Link Unveiled?

Frogman said:
Why are you guys even arguing over this? Creationists are not going to dissuade evolutionists, and evolutionists won't dissuade creationists. You can prove to a creationist that evolution happened, and they would still not believe it.
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The problem is, you cannot prove evolution, in the Darwinian sense. All you can prove is adaption. The "proof" of evolution is based on flawed logical reasoning at best, and speculation at worst. It cannot be empirically (and thus, scientifically) proven.

That is why "Ida" is being hyped so much; because evolution is not anywhere near as concrete as people say it is, so they still need "confirmation".
 
fossten said:
Frogman, I'm absolutely impressed with your honesty. You just encapsulated the very reason why people want to believe in evolution. Thanks for that point. :cool:
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Eh. I hear there is the option of salvation at the end. :D

From what I've gathered in your various posts, I realize you're a God fearing man, Fossten, and I respect that. I just can't seem to get myself to believe (and put whatever little faith I may have) into a God that seems to be as cruel as this one. I've seen way too much evil in my life to believe that God (if he indeed exists) is loving as the Bible says. Of course, the argument can be held that God is "testing" us humans and all that jive. But this is getting a little off topic....

But hey... You believe in Him, and as I said... I respect that. Even if I don't agree with your beliefs. Besides, I hear he gave us free will, so he shouldn't get too upset if "we" don't believe in him. :D


shagdrum said:
The problem is, you cannot prove evolution, in the Darwinian sense. All you can prove is adaption. The "proof" of evolution is based on flawed logical reasoning at best, and speculation at worst. It cannot be empirically (and thus, scientifically) proven.

That is why "Ida" is being hyped so much; because evolution is not anywhere near as concrete as people say it is, so they still need "confirmation".
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Fair enough. But creationism hasn't exactly been proven either. Or did I miss a memo?

Either way, to each his own, IMHO.
 
Frogman said:
Fair enough. But creationism hasn't exactly been proven either. Or did I miss a memo?

Either way, to each his own, IMHO.
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Well. Yes. The bible is presented as truth. So you dont have to prove it. That's a big problem with evolution/atheism vs the bible

evolution has to be proven from the ground up, the bible is already presented and accepted as fact.

if you have a question, like dinosaurs, you look for an answer within the bible to answer it.

I'm trying not to sound like i'm against the bible, hopefully i didn't
 
Mr Wiggl3s said:
Well. Yes. The bible is presented as truth. So you dont have to prove it. That's a big problem with evolution/atheism vs the bible

evolution has to be proven from the ground up, the bible is already presented and accepted as fact.

if you have a question, like dinosaurs, you look for an answer within the bible to answer it.

I'm trying not to sound like i'm against the bible, hopefully i didn't
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You are comparing science to a religion, there. That is apples to oranges. If religion made perfect logical sense, then it wouldn't be religion. There has to be a "leap of faith" involved in it by design. However, there cannot be any "leap of faith" in science, or it is not valid science.
 
Please...A Time magazine article says that many scientists are rolling their eyes at this missing link claim. No doubt some, particularly atheists, will jump all over Ida and say I told you so. But, just hold off your premature jubilation. Scientists have been known for hype and even lying, particularly with it comes to evolution.
 
Scientists hype everything? They just do their research. I'm sure they don't mess around in pettiness. Lol. I guess you dont watch the news.


Here's a nice little flow chart on how science gets to you

phd051809s.gif
 
Mr Wiggl3s said:
Scientists hype everything? They just do their research. I'm sure they don't mess around in pettiness. Lol. I guess you dont watch the news.


Here's a nice little flow chart on how science gets to you

phd051809s.gif
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Good point. In these type of instances, it is usually the people other then scientists that do the majority of the hyping. However, scientists do hype; they have to when it comes to getting grants. They can also hype when it comes to promoting a certain view they hold, especially when the prevailing wisdom (which they adhere to) is being challenged. That is why, as Max Planck pointed out, "A new scientific trugh does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because it's opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it."
 
shagdrum said:
That is why, as Max Planck pointed out, "A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because it's opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it."
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That's a good point.
 
Frogman said:
Eh. I hear there is the option of salvation at the end. :D

From what I've gathered in your various posts, I realize you're a God fearing man, Fossten, and I respect that. I just can't seem to get myself to believe (and put whatever little faith I may have) into a God that seems to be as cruel as this one. I've seen way too much evil in my life to believe that God (if he indeed exists) is loving as the Bible says. Of course, the argument can be held that God is "testing" us humans and all that jive. But this is getting a little off topic....

But hey... You believe in Him, and as I said... I respect that. Even if I don't agree with your beliefs. Besides, I hear he gave us free will, so he shouldn't get too upset if "we" don't believe in him. :D
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Thanks for the comment.

Your second paragraph explains your first. Free will means that man has the ability and the freedom to screw up the planet. All the evil in the world is the result of man's sin, not some sort of mischief dreamed up by God. It's not about 'testing' us, it's about our willful disobedience and rejection of God.

Don't forget that there is actual evil in the world, Satan and his demons exist, and man has a wicked heart to begin with. None of this is God's fault. That said, God still waits with open arms to anyone who repents and seeks Him.
 
hrmwrm said:
devil, devil, come out. i want to sell my soul.
you make yourself a target everytime you do this.
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I think it is more that you feel the need to mock and belittle Christianity whenever you can. Fossten presented you an opportunity and you couldn't pass it up, eh? ;)
 
hrmwrm said:
an opportunity at what.
and it's not belittling christianity. it is belittling religious ideas no matter the source. if he was talking of god and devil and was muslim, i'd respond the same.
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Oh, I see, merely belittling all religion in general..
You'd just belittle anyone of faith.

Mind you, you didn't ask a challenge or pose a thoughtful challenge, you "belittled".

And it should be noted, you did change your quote.. at least to something a little more concise.
Wasn't Charlie Chaplin the communist who had a thing for young girls? (ephebophilia)
 
I'm not insulted by weak minded scoffers like hrmwrm. I know what his fate will be. The very fact that he apparently doesn't believe in ANYTHING supernatural is laughable. That type of scoffer is the most closed-minded, naive person there is.
 
hrmwrm said:
show me any evidence(proveable and verifiable) of ANYTHING supernatural. if not, then you'd be the weak minded scoffer.
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Apparently you haven't learned any new snappy comebacks since the fifth grade. :rolleyes:

I'm not interested in 'proving' anything to you. Your fate awaits you after death. God will deal with you Himself. And I won't be sorry to see it.
 
hrmwrm said:
show me any evidence(proveable and verifiable) of ANYTHING supernatural. if not, then you'd be the weak minded scoffer.
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So your position is that anyone that exhibits faith is a weak mind scoffer?
Of course, would I presume that you think because you don't embrace any religious faith, you think yourself superior to any weak minded scoffer, and that gives you justification for your hostility and belligerence?
 
hrmwrm said:
scietifically verifiable. there are lots of magicians and tricksters. and so far i've seen none that can pass the reality test. it's amazing what the power of suggestion can do.
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Quick question, you keep posting signature quotes that are hostile and condescending towards religion. That's fine, enjoy your shallow crusade.

But are you aware of the context or the back stories of the people you're quoting? Because when you actually know that, the sources aren't really enlightened at all.

Pirsing may speak critically of "religion" but is very spiritual. So much so that he thought his murdered son's (the one in his first book)life force was carried over into his next child's body. He was actually going to have the child aborted until he arrived at that mystic conclusion. And, for the record, I thought his book was horribly overrated, pop philosophy crap.

And the Chaplin quote that you're repeating is widely considered to be a misquote, or a quote that is void of the proper context. It comes from the Manual of a Perfect Atheist, by a radical leftist Mexican writer named Eduardo del Río who writes under the pen name of Rius. Chaplin, according to his own autobiography was very spiritual as well. If anything he was an agnostic, not an atheist.
 
hrmwrm said:
but then it's no more targeting than other sigs. like fosstens at present anti liberal sig. it's only offensive if you let it be offensive.
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I would also argue that Fossten's signature is intentionally "offensive" and was selected in order to provoke a response. He may also have thought it to be a form of parody or mocking humor, as you probably do with your avatar.
 
so people say that fossils that bear resemblance dont necessarily prove evolution, i agree with this. in order to PROVE evolution you would need to find a fossil from EVERY generation of said animal to see the progression. i believe in evolution but i also believe it will never be proven.
 
stlunatic said:
so people say that fossils that bear resemblance dont necessarily prove evolution, i agree with this. in order to PROVE evolution you would need to find a fossil from EVERY generation of said animal to see the progression. i believe in evolution but i also believe it will never be proven.
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As mentioned in the other thread, people overwhelmingly recognize that evolutionary processes take place in nature. The debate between creationsim, ID, and Darwinian Evolution, is specifically about the origins of all species.

Did they come about complete at random, mutating from the primordial ooze.(Darwinian Evo)
Was there some sort of external influence directing the evolution and organizing the complex systems.(ID)
Or were the species created largely as we see them. (Creationism)
 
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