Master cylinder upgrade?

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luxuryrules

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On the car in question, my 96, I have replaced all calipers, pads, & rotors all around. I used Classic Tube's SS brake line kit. I have no leaks, and no air in the lines, and have tried both Valvoline SynPower fluid and Motul. Still, my pedal is not as firm as I think it should be (or at least would like it to be).

The only think left I think is the master cylinder. I'm not inclined to think the vacuum booster is shot because I can't detect a vacuum leak and, if it were the booster, I would imagine the pedal would be too firm instead of not firm enough.

So, in the interest of thoroughness, I'm going to replace the master cylinder, but I'm interested in knowing if there is potential for an upgrade here. Larger or higher capacity one, from a Cobra maybe? I imagine as long as the shaft is the same dimensions, mounting points match up, and fittings are the same I should be good to go, yes?
 
luxuryrules said:
On the car in question, my 96, I have replaced all calipers, pads, & rotors all around. I used Classic Tube's SS brake line kit. I have no leaks, and no air in the lines, and have tried both Valvoline SynPower fluid and Motul. Still, my pedal is not as firm as I think it should be (or at least would like it to be).

The only think left I think is the master cylinder. I'm not inclined to think the vacuum booster is shot because I can't detect a vacuum leak and, if it were the booster, I would imagine the pedal would be too firm instead of not firm enough.

So, in the interest of thoroughness, I'm going to replace the master cylinder, but I'm interested in knowing if there is potential for an upgrade here. Larger or higher capacity one, from a Cobra maybe? I imagine as long as the shaft is the same dimensions, mounting points match up, and fittings are the same I should be good to go, yes?
Click to expand...


Considering the fact that ford often used Lincoln brakes on the mustang (read SVO mustang) and that was considered and upgrade....due to the fact the Lincoln Brakes are for a 4OOOlb car, and the mustang is almost 1000lbs lighter.. it's a UPGRADE.

Putting brakes from a car that is 1000 lbs lighter than a mark 8 can no way be considered an "upgrade"..


I'm leaning towards a brake booster problem with your issue.
when the brake booster fails the pedal doesnt get "harder like you thought it does"... it gets very very spongy and gradually will "go to the floor" when the booster leaks enough.

Cobra use a Hydroboost system also, which is incompatible with the Lincoln Brake system....
 
XLRVIII said:
I'm leaning towards a brake booster problem with your issue.
when the brake booster fails the pedal doesnt get "harder like you thought it does"... it gets very very spongy and gradually will "go to the floor" when the booster leaks enough.
Click to expand...

Are you sure? Every brake booster problem I've ever dealt with has been the opposite - it leaks, and the pedal gets harder to push because when it doesn't hold vacuum, it's not offering as much assistance as usual. I wouldnt' say "harder like I thought it does" rather "harder like I have felt it do." For the brake booster to make the brakes feel softer would mean it is offering too much assistance - and that would also have the effect of clamping the brakes harder.
 
luxuryrules said:
Are you sure? Every brake booster problem I've ever dealt with has been the opposite - it leaks, and the pedal gets harder to push because when it doesn't hold vacuum, it's not offering as much assistance as usual. I wouldnt' say "harder like I thought it does" rather "harder like I have felt it do." For the brake booster to make the brakes feel softer would mean it is offering too much assistance - and that would also have the effect of clamping the brakes harder.
Click to expand...

your rationalization makes no sense.. BUT I'm quite sure of what my car did when the brake booster crapped.
Pedal was spongy soft and would drop to the floor if I held the brakes more than 5ish seconds.. my brake booster was totally failed.
Yours probably has an internal leak and isn't completely screwed like mine was.. but it DIFINATLY DID NOT MAKE THE PEDAL HARDER.
 
lscmkviii said:
I have 04 cobra rotors and calipers on my LSC. That IS an upgrade!
Click to expand...


whatever give you a warm fuzzy feeling.. *shrugs*

I've never felt the need to upgrade something that works perfectly fine.

I drive my car harder than 99% of the people out there.
my previous car had 5 thousand dragstrip passes, many many trips down many autocross courses, many many laps around a 3/8th mile oval asphalt track.. and in 400,000 miles I NEVER drove into anything because "I needed a brake upgrade".

But again.. if it gives you a warm fuzzy feeling to shout to the world you have "COBRA BRAKES".. feel free.
 
kustomizingkid said:
My stock Lincoln brakes can lock up my tires, why upgrade?
Click to expand...

Just because the stock brakes can lock up a stock tire does not mean they are better than a cobra brake system. try putting 265s on an 18 inch wheel up front. good luck locking those up. I know for a fact I can stop faster and in less distance than any stock mark with out locking anything up. Oh and what kind of control do you have while those brakes are locked up? The key is better responce with low fade while staying in control.
 
and.. just because they are "cobra brakes" doesnt mean crap.

I'll take your "brake test challenge".
Drive over and we'll do it...... best of 10 stops wins?
 
So if I put some 79 cobra brakes on my car it's gonna stop better?
OK.. what about 80 cobra brakes???

76-77 cobra brakes....

cobra cobra cobra.. BIG F'n DEAL.

if I was gonna put "cobra parts" on my car it wouldn't be "brake parts".
It'd be a upgrade that gave me 400+ HP.
 
I've never ran into a "fade" problem, but.. "I know how to drive".
 
I avoided close action accidents in front of me many many times with my first car (88 Toyota camry that pops bought to get me working and make legal money instead of risky fast money) and only accident I had with that car is when i feel asleep and hit a mail box...i was 15 years old.........
 
XLRVIII said:
your rationalization makes no sense.. BUT I'm quite sure of what my car did when the brake booster crapped.
Pedal was spongy soft and would drop to the floor if I held the brakes more than 5ish seconds.. my brake booster was totally failed.
Yours probably has an internal leak and isn't completely screwed like mine was.. but it DIFINATLY DID NOT MAKE THE PEDAL HARDER.
Click to expand...

My rationalization makes sense according to what I personally have experienced in the past on other vehicles. Aka, last time I had a brake booster fade (one of my Tauruses, er, Taurusi?), the pedal got waaaay stiff and it wouldn't stop as nicely - ie, it basically went back to manual brakes. My rationalization comes from my personal experience and nothing more, so even if it may be wrong, please understand I am only basing my conjecture on my limited experience, and here is the important part: I don't know for sure, and that is exactly why I am asking. Thank you for your input. Now I know that it can be a failing brake booster, and I won't cross that off my list of potential stuff that may have gone wrong. I will try once more to locate a leak, or I may just replace it to be on the safe side. Could you point me to some troubleshooting that I might do instead, or would you just advise that I replace it first?

Now, let's return to the original question since it would seem that we have gotten sidetracked. Is there a worthwhile upgrade to the master cylinder? Not to ask where it could come from, or if it is something that is even needs improvement, but I simply want to know if there is a way to upgrade.
 
Reading through this thread again, there is a lot of hostility and arrogance here. Guys, please keep this civil, will ya?
 
*grabs the baby food spoon from the drawer*

Since your comparing the taurus to the mark 8.

The problem you had with the Taurus wasn't the brake booster... it was PROBABLY just the check valve that plugs into the booster.
if the check valve fails the pedal gets "really hard" like your Taurus.

If your having the same symptoms with the mark 8.. replace the check valve before you torture yourself R&Ring the booster

(tosses the baby food spoon in the dishwasher)
 
I'm civil, but get tire of repeating myself....

Either take my info for what it's worth..Or actually diagnose the car, your asking US to GUESS what is wrong with your car.

EVEN IF we get it right...your just gonna "shrug off" the peice of information.. because "it didn't make sense"???

Maybe we should be asking YOU what is wrong with your car rather than the other way around.

I am seriously TRYING to be helpful.. but getting baby food spat back at me isn't the most pleasurable experience.
 
CobraStar_LS8 said:
I avoided close action accidents in front of me many many times with my first car (88 Toyota camry that pops bought to get me working and make legal money instead of risky fast money) and only accident I had with that car is when i feel asleep and hit a mail box...i was 15 years old.........
Click to expand...


Apparently YOU have installed "THE DRIVER MOD" that escapes most folks.

+1!
 
try this on your brake booster.. still trying to help ablient my azzhole appearance.

Get some starting fluid.. spray it around the check valve.
if your engine speed increases.. WALA.. bad check valve or brake booster
Replace the check valve and repeat the test.
If it still does it.. brake booster time..

WHICH.. changing a brake booster on a mark 8 is a server PITA
I wouldn't wish that job on anyone.
 
to test good braking skills spray the ground with water and see who can use brake without loosing traction...without the driver mod, you'll slide...with the driver mod, you'll loosen and tighten the pressure on the brakes to get a good braking range
 
XLRVIII said:
NOTE..DRIVER MOD required to perform this test.
Click to expand...

DRIVER'S DISCRETION: COBRA BRAKES AREN'T CONSIDERED A DRIVER MOD AND CAN LEAD TO DEATH WITHOUT THE ADVICE AND GUIDANCE FROM A DRIVER MOD FANATIC...KIDS DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME OR ANYWHERE ELSE.......
 
XLRVIII said:
*grabs the baby food spoon from the drawer*

Since your comparing the taurus to the mark 8.

The problem you had with the Taurus wasn't the brake booster... it was PROBABLY just the check valve that plugs into the booster.
if the check valve fails the pedal gets "really hard" like your Taurus.

If your having the same symptoms with the mark 8.. replace the check valve before you torture yourself R&Ring the booster

(tosses the baby food spoon in the dishwasher)
Click to expand...

See? Was that so hard? I appreciate the information, and that is exactly what I was looking for. At length, and after repeatedly insulting me and talking down to me, you have answered my question. Thank you! I apologize for making you get the baby spoon out, but as you have so painstakingly pointed out, you know a lot more about this than I do, and that is why I am here asking for information.

XLRVIII said:
I'm civil, but get tire of repeating myself....

Either take my info for what it's worth..Or actually diagnose the car, your asking US to GUESS what is wrong with your car.

EVEN IF we get it right...your just gonna "shrug off" the peice of information.. because "it didn't make sense"???

Maybe we should be asking YOU what is wrong with your car rather than the other way around.

I am seriously TRYING to be helpful.. but getting baby food spat back at me isn't the most pleasurable experience.
Click to expand...

You probably have gotten it right, and I won't be discarding it. I wasn't asking you to guess what was wrong, I was asking for advice in helping to troubleshoot it. I know this, because I said "Could you point me to some troubleshooting that I might do instead," as I'm trying to be helpful. I understand you are too, but when your very first answer here starts off by belittling the person asking the question, that really doesn't set a very pleasant tone. I apologize if I spat the baby food back at you, I didn't intend for it to come out that way; rather, I just wanted a little bit more help understanding it and I admit I could have probably gone about probing for information in a slightly different light.

So, once again I will thank you for the information. You have been very helpful.
 
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