Mark VIII V. Northstar Eldorado

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92SedandeVille-TownCar94

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I'm looking to buy a new car soon, and I'd really like to move from my luxury sedan to a luxury coupe, I really like the Mark VIIIs and Northstar Eldorados a lot.

Now I've done my homework and researched each cars thoroughly and the Mark VIII seems to be the more reliable car, with the more durable, lower maintenance, cheaper to run engine. But I live in Minnesota where we get a lot of snow, and I've heard that the VIII is quite poor in the snow, even with traction control and weight in the trunk. Is it really that bad? I don't want a car where I'm left stranded in 4" of snow because of the total lack of traction on the drive wheels. So that's definetly an advantage for the Eldorado, front wheel drive and all.

But the Northstar is a very finicky, high maintenance motor. Headgaskets are a pretty regular issue on those, along with coolant leaks. It seems as though the entire engine depends on the amount of care that the previous owner gave it. If proper care with the cooling system has not been taken by the previous owner, it's gonna be a pain in the ass for the current owner. The Intech 4.6 doesn't have that problem. As you guys say, it's a pretty bulletproof motor, but there are problems with the trannys in the VIII's (along with most Fords). I'm pretty sure that the 4T60-E in the Eldorado is the better tranny there.

Now as far as performance is concerned, both cars are incredibly close stock, but the Intech has all of the aftermarket that the Northstar doesn't. You can get a VIII into the 12's where as with an Eldorado, you're pretty much stuck at the mid-high 14's. Fuel economy seems to be slightly better in the VIII, but I'm not positive on that, both motors will get 27-28 MPG highway.

Both of the cars are very good looking, but in two very seperate ways. The Mark VIII is very swoopy, low, long and sporty. The Eldorado is more squared off, formal and luxurious looking, but still pretty sporty for a Caddy. The interiors are great too. The VIII has that great cockpit style dashboard, where the center console is titled towards the driver...it's a very neat concept. But the Eldorado, especially the Touring Coupe has a richer feeling interior, they use better materials than the VIII, like the real zebrano wood trim and other stuff.

What do you guys think? Do the Mark's many advantages outweigh it's massive disadvantage dealing with winter driving?
 
Get a set of snow tires and forget about it. You'll be fine. Have you ever had a car w/ RWD in the snow? some experience helps too.
 
Yeah, my first car was a '95 Buick Roadmaster. With a brand new set of all season tires, that was better in the snow than my '92 deVille is. But that Roadmaster was 500 lbs heavier than a VIII, and it had positraction, which was never available on the VIII.
 
as long as you have a light foot on the VIII, u shouldnt get stuck in the snow.

my mom was in the same position as u. we had a 94' VIII and she wanted something newer. we ended up getting a '98 lsc. just think. the eldos are like $2-$5k more that the lincolns. take that money and get u a little 4x4 blazer. :)
 
I live in Wisconsin and Have Mark VIII's... I don't have any problem in the snow.

If you can run the TC in snow you can run the Mark VIII in snow with no problems....
 
I live in Quebec, and I have no real trouble with my Mark in the winter, it's better than my Crown Vic was. And it's like, -40 here in February.
 
OK, that's reassuring to hear. If it can be done in Quebec, then it's no problem in MN! Hopefully though, I'll be able to keep my '92 deVille as a winter car.
 
which year are you looking for? If its the gen II, buy a 98 Mark VIII LSC, so you have true dual exhaust and have $300 to put in a chip to have the same preformance as the Eldorado.
 
hmm mine isnt too good in the snow but my tires suck and never drove any other car with more then 120 hp in the snow. My other car was a 71 duster slant 6 and was good in the snow.
 
Mine was fine in the snow. The only problem I had was getting hung up, but that's because my car sits so low. Other than that, it did OK.
 
Hi Chad.

The trans in the Eldo is a 4T80-E, which is quite a bit more solid than a 4T60-E. You're right you're stuck in the mid 14s in an ETC, unless you spray it.

If you want a good daily to drive around, get the Eldo. If you want to mod it and run mid 13s or better, get a Mark VIII.
 
Oh hey Dave, it's me I~LUV~Caddys from CF. I like the Eldorado, but I'd prefer the RWD VIII for performance purposes. If it's doable in snow, then the VIII is the clear winner because the Intech seems to be more durable than the Northstar, but the post 2000 Northstar seems to be a lot better than the previous Northstar.
 
Some more questions for you fine folks over here....

The 93-95 ETC/STS and 1st gen Mark VIII are my top 3 choices for next car, I'm trying to decide which is better..

In the Northstars, the starter and alternator are in the valley of the motor..which will prove to be very expensive to replace when they go bad, where is the starter and alternator on the Intechs?

Does the Intech hold any real advantages or disadvantages over the Northstar? From what I've heard, head gaskets aren't as much of an issue on the Intechs. Do they have some sort of a general flaw? An example of a general flaw is the main bearing thump on my 4.9L. What are the big things to watch for with the Intechs?
 
92SedandeVille-TownCar94 said:
Some more questions for you fine folks over here....

The 93-95 ETC/STS and 1st gen Mark VIII are my top 3 choices for next car, I'm trying to decide which is better..

In the Northstars, the starter and alternator are in the valley of the motor..which will prove to be very expensive to replace when they go bad, where is the starter and alternator on the Intechs?

Does the Intech hold any real advantages or disadvantages over the Northstar? From what I've heard, head gaskets aren't as much of an issue on the Intechs. Do they have some sort of a general flaw? An example of a general flaw is the main bearing thump on my 4.9L. What are the big things to watch for with the Intechs?
Click to expand...

The alternator can be replaced in ten minutes, literally, on a Mark VIII. The starter is a bit more work, but only cause you have to climb under the car's passenger side.

Head gaskets are not even an "issue", so few blow in the Intech and if they do it is because of abuse and lack of maintenance. I have never personally read about one going on the Mark VIII forum at another server. The biggest and almost guaranteed failure will be the oil filter adapter gasket. When this goes you can get oil in the coolant, not much but it can happen. When it does some people assure head gasket. Otherwise the car just leaks a lot of oil. Its not too hard to replace, just takes some time. There are TONS of write-ups on it. Its even possible that it was already done, the older these cars get the more likely it has been replaced.

Another weak point can be the "revolutionary in design" IMRCs. The Intake Manifold Runner Controls are an awesome design. But without regular cleaning they can stick. Generally they are not too hard to work on if you have to. Its a day (or two) long project to remove and clean them if you are not mechanically inclined. But thats what the write-ups are for and this forum.

Thats about all I can think of.
 
So basically, the biggest problems on the VIII is the air springs, and the headlights on the Gen 1's. Other than that, they're pretty (relatively speaking) solid. The oil filter adapter gasket and IMRC's are really small issues though, all things considered.
 
Ya, but its all the small issues that add up. Really it comes down to care. If its well cared for and driven hard a few times you should be ok. There is not much one can do about headlamps. New ones are $210 per side. Air bags are about $100 a side for rears (non-oem) and $277 for fronts per side, new OEM. Any Mark you pick up now has a good chance of being a "project" for the first few months you own it. Dont buy one expecting to put nothing into it.

Just he head-gasket issues scares me away from the caddy. I drive very hard and exceed 110 mph often. But I got a Mark VIII because I wanted a Mark VIII - the strong engine was simply a bonus I learned about later on.
 
unity said:
Just he head-gasket issues scares me away from the caddy. I drive very hard and exceed 110 mph often. But I got a Mark VIII because I wanted a Mark VIII - the strong engine was simply a bonus I learned about later on.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the issue with N* head gaskets isn't hard driving, hell my ETC's done 153 indicated... it's lack of maintenance (coolant changes.)
 
Here's a simple way to put it.

I have 3 Mark VIIIs a 93 with 205,000 miles on it a 94 with 140,000 miles on it, and a 95 with 150,000 miles on it.

I replaced one Torque Converter on my 95 which has been my biggest project.

I replace the are ride on the 93 and 94 no more air ride issues with them.

The only other problems I've had are the ball joints.

No engine issues. Cars run strong!!

So I'd say don't worry about the engine of the Mark VIII unless you beat it to death without maintenance.
 
I have to agree with most everyone here the Mark VIII is the way to go. I am a GM person for the most part but I picked up my VIII for cheap cause of engine light and ABS light. In NJ the inspection sucks big time so the owner didn't want to pay a garage to fix it.

I put in a IAC and took the light out of the ABS reset the ECU and passed inspection. Just turning 160k and I got it with 130k on it, I drive it hard but keep up on the oil and tuning. So I love it for the 30k it has givin me so far. It did suck last winter mostly because I have lame tires on it. I got stuck in front of a friends house cause I got high centered on snow plowed up on the street.

I can say the FWD great in snow is BS pretty much. I had a Eldo and driving home from work in a heavy snow from North Brunswick it sucked!! When the tires are spinning the slightest bit it does not like to steer. Or when you are spinning in the snow trying to get out of something the front just goes where it wants period!

Then again if snow is such a concern AWD has been awesome to me when I had my SVX :D
 
Yeah, FWD can be a problem in the snow too, especially when you're accelerating, and your wheels will start to slip, so you've lost the steering and acceleration. My 4.9L '92 deVille will spin it's front tires all day long in the snow, unless you're really careful with the throttle. My Roadmaster with the snow tires was so confident in the snow..felt so safe in that car, but then again, there was less than 1" of snow on the ground the only time I ever had it in snow..I sold it shortly after.

In March of '05, my buddies and I had planned to go to the GMADA Auto Show in Minneapolis..but on the day we picked in advance to go, it snowed about 6-8", and it kept falling. So we piled in my deVille and it got us there without any hesitation. I had to be very careful, but then again, you'd have to in anything in that sort of weather, but we got there and back w/o any hiccups.
 
Yes depending on the drivers ability you can make any car semi competent in snow of varying depths.

However when I had my SVX and it was a driving snow on the highway with all the people going 30mph in the right hand lane I was able to drive completely in control in the left hand lane. Yeah I kept it to the 40 45mph zone because nothing is going to stop if someone slid in front of me but that car was just stuck to the ground at all times.

Even tho I like my Mark a ton I hate pulling out into traffic even on a rainy day. You really get spoiled with AWD :rolleyes:
 
If you can drive a Town Car in the snow, a Mark will be a walk in the park BELIEVE ME. I had 2 Mark 7's that I loved to drive in the snow, 1 had a posi and 1 didnt. The posi Mark seemed a LOT better in the snow. Then theres my TC, that gets stuck with studded snows like its its job!:( Go with the Mark 8! :)
 
Well I never drove a TC in the snow, but a Roadmaster, with posi and the LT1. Even if the VIII is bad in the snow, due to design, tires or lack of driver experience, I can always add weight in the rear end and it'll be better! Are the VIII's posi or not? I don't think they are.
 
2002WRXSTi said:
Yeah I kept it to the 40 45mph zone because nothing is going to stop if someone slid in front of me but that car was just stuck to the ground at all times.

Even tho I like my Mark a ton I hate pulling out into traffic even on a rainy day. You really get spoiled with AWD :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

I have a friend with a '91 Talon TSi AWD. That thing is so confident in the snow, acceleration and handling are sublime in the snow..and AWD is fun in a big empty parking lot. But with AWD, it's very hard to ride that line between "hey this is fun" and "ooooooooh :q:q:q:q"...if you lose it, there ain't much you can do to save yourself.
 
92SedandeVille-TownCar94 said:
Are the VIII's posi or not? I don't think they are.
Click to expand...

You're correct, no factory posi (trac lok) Mark VIIIs. A swap isn't a real big deal though.
 
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