LS speaker upgrade

[Janobala]

I have a 2000 lincoln LS with the alpine premium audio(6 disc cd in glove box if that matters) and I'm looking to just get a general speaker upgrade from these stocks. I don't have too much of an interest in putting a sub in my trunk, but I will as a last resort. I'm just wondering what speakers I can get to just put out more bass themselves, and just be generally louder and more bassy. Please do not tell me to get a new head unit, I'm not looking for that, I just want better louder brassier speakers, I don't listen to hip hop or any of that crap so I don't want to be bumping down the road, but I still want to bump more than the stock speakers do. Thank you for any help people

 

[1LoudLS]

well if you have the premium package, it has factory subs...

because of this, there is no aftermarket door speakers that are gonna give you any more bass than what you already have...

you say you want it louder, so you want speakers with a higher sensitivity, so that they are more efficient. this will make your sound system a tiny bit louder (maybe?) but to really get a good bit louder than what it already is, you're gonna need more power.

if you really want more bass, then you need to focus on actual bass speakers AKA subwoofers. so it actually sounds like you need more of an interest in that... you could upgrade the OEM subs, but there are few choices with minimal results.



so if you want better sound, you should look at a deck (better control of the sound, also a bit more powerful amp so louder), new speakers (better clarity, mostly mids and highs), and an amp and sub (more real actual bass)


if you just want louder, you will need an amp, you could add an amp to the factory headunit. if you just want it louder, even something as simple as an Alpine power pack ( KTP-445U ) this can easily be added to the OEM headunit, and has HPFs so you can filter out of some of the lows so even the OEM speakers can be used with out too much problem, at least for a little while (being careless with the settings can easily blow the OEM speakers(or even the best speakers out there...))




my honest recommendation (without going full replacement of course) would be a decent 5ch amp, with fairly high HPS settings. the a nice matching single subwoofer like a 12" or maybe a 10" depending on the music you listen too. you can keep the stock headunit and speakers, then just remove the OEM subs. this will get you quite a bit louder system with some good solid bass (you don't have to "bump it" any louder than you want to)

when/if you ever decide you want a little better quality of sound, you can replace all of the speakers when your ready.

 

[LS4me]

I replaced the door speakers in my old 2000 and added an amp. It sounds FANTASTIC. For the doors I used Infiniti Reference speakers; I didn't have the rear deck subs so I added a pair of Pioneer 4-way speakers in that location. I used, IIRC, a Rockford-Fosgate 200.4 (?) amp.

 

[Lincoln]

I have been down this road numerous times and let me tell you that almost 90% of factory radios self-regulate the sound output to help protect the speakers from distortion (burning out). For example, if you have the bass all the way up (lets say +5), and turn the volume up, then the radio will turn down the bass automatically at high volumes and will bring it back up at low volumes. Thats why you hear more bass at low levels, but ass soon as you turn it up, it sounds like you are listening with the bass back at level 0. Same goes with the 'treble' and 'mid'. Again it does this to keep the sound as clean as possible and reduce distortion.

Now with aftermarket radios, this does not happen. Whatever audio setting you give it (ex. Bass+5, Mid +3,Treble +5), it will hold it to its max volume, but you will be faced with distortion at some point.

So changing out the speakers will do nothing if you still have the factory head unit. Like 1LoudLS said, you can add an amp for the "high's" (inside speakers) but that is only going to make it louder. Remember that the amp is only amplifying what it's receiving. So if it receives hi-volumes with bass cut-down from the factory radio, then it's only going to put out hi-volumes with bass cut-down but just louder. Same goes with speakers, they only reproduce what they receive.

I changed out the factory unit with an aftermarket and got a lil more bass at higher volumes. Then I added an amp to fine tune it and make it louder. Till this day I still haven't changed the factory speakers and everywhere I go people ask me what speakers I have installed and they trip-out when I tell them it's the factory speakers because of how clean it sounds.

So if you want to have noticeable results, you're going to be better off adding an amp and woofer with a bass knob, that way you can control how much bass you want.

 

[LS4me]

I have been down this road numerous times and let me tell you that almost 90% of factory radios self-regulate the sound output to help protect the speakers from distortion (burning out). For example, if you have the bass all the way up (lets say +5), and turn the volume up, then the radio will turn down the bass automatically at high volumes and will bring it back up at low volumes. Thats why you hear more bass at low levels, but ass soon as you turn it up, it sounds like you are listening with the bass back at level 0. Same goes with the 'treble' and 'mid'. Again it does this to keep the sound as clean as possible and reduce distortion.

Now with aftermarket radios, this does not happen. Whatever audio setting you give it (ex. Bass+5, Mid +3,Treble +5), it will hold it to its max volume, but you will be faced with distortion at some point.

So changing out the speakers will do nothing if you still have the factory head unit. Like 1LoudLS said, you can add an amp for the "high's" (inside speakers) but that is only going to make it louder. Remember that the amp is only amplifying what it's receiving. So if it receives hi-volumes with bass cut-down from the factory radio, then it's only going to put out hi-volumes with bass cut-down but just louder. Same goes with speakers, they only reproduce what they receive.

I changed out the factory unit with an aftermarket and got a lil more bass at higher volumes. Then I added an amp to fine tune it and make it louder. Till this day I still haven't changed the factory speakers and everywhere I go people ask me what speakers I have installed and they trip-out when I tell them it's the factory speakers because of how clean it sounds.

So if you want to have noticeable results, you're going to be better off adding an amp and woofer with a bass knob, that way you can control how much bass you want.

My daughter's stock HU with the amp puts out TONS of bass; should it be adjusted that way. The HU has no idea I changed out the speakers and added 2.....

 

[Janobala]

I'm mainly only interested on changing the rear speakers. I believe the tweeters are blown in them, so what speakers should I replace them with that would be an upgrade from the factory.

 

[LS4me]

I'm mainly only interested on changing the rear speakers. I believe the tweeters are blown in them, so what speakers should I replace them with that would be an upgrade from the factory.

If you're talking rear deck speakers they are subs only. NO high frequencies are sent to them.....

 

[Lincoln]

My daughter's stock HU with the amp puts out TONS of bass; should it be adjusted that way. The HU has no idea I changed out the speakers and added 2.....

Yea you can get a lot of bass from a factory HU, it all depends on how powerful the amp/sub is and what kind if car it's going into.

Some cars don't require lots of power to rattle the doors off. Ex. in a Lincoln LS you will need almost twice the power to get it to sound as loud as a civic with a 500watt system. This is because the LS is designed to be a more quiet ride, so you have more obstacles for the sound to travel through (thicker sheet metal, thicker seats cushions, noise cancelation materials, etc…).

When I transferred some of my old equipment from my Eclipse into the LS, it wasn't as loud anymore. I had to buy more powerful amps/subs to get the same results.

The cars that will have really good results with adding a sub to the factory HU are any type of hatchback/open cabin vehicles (wagons/SUV's) because there is nothing in the way of the frequencies. Pretty much it's a direct contact with sound since it doesn't have to travel thought anything, except air, to get to your ears.

 

[Lincoln]

Another thing I wanted to share is that some of the LS's come with component like speakers and some with coaxial speakers.

Straight out the coaxial speaker is louder and gives more bass than the component type speakers. This is because the coaxial is an actual 5x7 size speaker and the components are a 5.25" speaker with a 1" tweeter in a 5x7 housing.

I have tried both types since I had both sets laying around and the factory coaxial's out performed the factory components.

Like I said till this day I am still using the factory coaxial's with my JL 300/4v3 amp.

 

[1LoudLS]

View attachment 828467554View attachment 828467555

actually, "coaxial" speakers would refer to two-way speakers where the tweeter is mounted dead center of the woofer. you have multiple drivers that share a common axis.

Your "coaxial speakers are just one way speakers. a lot of times the manufacture will add a second cone to the dust cap to attempt to be able to better recreate the full range of sound, commonly referred to as dual wizzer cones.

 

[1LoudLS]

I have been down this road numerous times and let me tell you that almost 90% of factory radios self-regulate the sound output to help protect the speakers from distortion (burning out). For example, if you have the bass all the way up (lets say +5), and turn the volume up, then the radio will turn down the bass automatically at high volumes and will bring it back up at low volumes. Thats why you hear more bass at low levels, but ass soon as you turn it up, it sounds like you are listening with the bass back at level 0. Same goes with the 'treble' and 'mid'. Again it does this to keep the sound as clean as possible and reduce distortion.

thats not whats really going on there, while there is a few newer radios out there that are programmed to do this, it is far from most. you have this appearance because of the extremely limited power of the internal amplifier, the bass takes a lot more power to recreate, so that is why the bass is so strong at lower volumes, but seem to level off toward the higher end. when adding 4ch and 5ch amps to OEM radios, it is very important to know where the OEM starts to clip and distort. when you look at the sound with test tracks and an Oscilloscope, you can see right where it starts to clip and it makes a nice little table top. its not being faded out, its just clipping.

 

[milehighmikey]

There is actually a great mod that a lincoln tech put up a few years back. Mr_Howie was his handle. I used his idea, modified it a bit and I was blown away by the results.
In his mod, you take down the rear subwoofer and amp. You take the speakers out and fabricate some straps to bolt them up to the rear deck holes, which are larger than the woofers. You then fill the gap around the speakers with silicone RTV. I looked at the situation and decided that I could cut out the 'plates' of plastic that the woofers bolt into, leaving a buffer zone of a few inches around the speakers, including the factory bolt pattern for holding the 'plates' up in place, negating the need for fabricating straps and wasting expensive RTV. The end product is the two speakers, bolted to the package tray area, sealed very well to the cabin, and the amplifier mounted on the side on its edge. It's one of those OM*G moments when I cranked up the SOJA or Pepper or Tribal Seeds, Expendables... (Rebelution, etc) . The bass is fully there, no more weird crunchy bass that the factory sub provided, just rubbery, deep bass that sounds best at around 1 notch below the mid point of the graphical bass meter in the head unit display. Meanwhile, the other speakers being infinity 2 ways, along with a $20 set of tweeters from wal mart mounted up on the door panels just inside the mirrors, sound pisser. Hardly any cost, either. Mr_Howie is one sharp dude and I can't thank him enough. It turned the trunk into a large enclosure for subs and there's no denying that this is a great setup for low $$$. He also had a neat trick for fitting high beam bulbs into the low beams of our headlights, which increased driving range but left the reflectors in place for a conforming low beam pattern. You gotta love that guy's tricks! Look him up! I can provide a photo of my sub box after removal of the 'plates' that the speakers bolt to, if you want to see what I did.

 

[1LoudLS]

yes, if you have an older LS with the actual sub enclosure, removing the enclosure and mounting the speakers directly to the deck like the 2nd gens really helps out to give it a fuller bass tone.

 

[Lincoln]

thats not whats really going on there, while there is a few newer radios out there that are programmed to do this, it is far from most. you have this appearance because of the extremely limited power of the internal amplifier, the bass takes a lot more power to recreate, so that is why the bass is so strong at lower volumes, but seem to level off toward the higher end. when adding 4ch and 5ch amps to OEM radios, it is very important to know where the OEM starts to clip and distort. when you look at the sound with test tracks and an Oscilloscope, you can see right where it starts to clip and it makes a nice little table top. its not being faded out, its just clipping.

Yea, I know. It's a safety feature to protect the audio system from self destructing. I was just giving an example to which most people would understand.

 

[Lincoln]

actually, "coaxial" speakers would refer to two-way speakers where the tweeter is mounted dead center of the woofer. you have multiple drivers that share a common axis.

Your "coaxial speakers are just one way speakers. a lot of times the manufacture will add a second cone to the dust cap to attempt to be able to better recreate the full range of sound, commonly referred to as dual wizzer cones.

I'm pretty sure that mostly everybody knows what a coaxial speaker is.
The purpose of my post was to inform of which one is 'louder'. I know that mostly everybody hasn't tested both factory sets in their cars to hear the difference (those who still have the factory speakers and perhaps didn't know they came with different sets/want a cheaper solution).

 

[joegr]

I'm pretty sure that mostly everybody knows what a coaxial speaker is.
...

Apparently, there was at least one that didn't...

 

[1LoudLS]

I'm pretty sure that mostly everybody knows what a coaxial speaker is.

do they? now there are probably a bunch of people that think those speakers are coaxials. instead of helping people, you've only confused them further

Yea, I know. It's a safety feature to protect the audio system from self destructing. I was just giving an example to which most people would understand.

no its not, clipping is not a safety feature designed in... its a symptom of the amp being over driven.

also its important to notice, clipping damages speakers. so by your logic, ford made a safety feature that actually damages speakers instead of protects them...



giving people incorrect information so that they can understand something really doesn't help them to understand anything.

I know that mostly everybody hasn't tested both factory sets in their cars to hear the difference (those who still have the factory speakers and perhaps didn't know they came with different sets/want a cheaper solution).

the absolute last thing I would recommend to anybody would be to downgrade to a crappier speaker for louder sound...

speakers are already cheap, it doesn't take a lot of money to get a replacement speakers that actually improves the sound.

 

[Lincoln]

Well, what I was explaining was the difference between how a factory radio acts at high volume compared to an aftermarket radio, thats it.

About "downgrading" the speakers, they have the same sound quality. The components just don't handle as much power. That was a suggestion since not everyone wants to spend money on aftermarket speakers that are barely going improve the factory sound. Like I said it is a cheaper alternative since you can get these at a junkyard for around $10 a pair.

 

[LS4me]

Hmmmmmm..... The THX system uses plate speakers and has more power than the base system. The sound is also much, much cleaner. My THX sounds much, much better; volume and clarity; than the base system.

Had/have both....

 

[zrxinch]

wants help finding more bass and insults music prefrence of majority of people who can help....

I don't listen to hip hop or any of that crap

I don't have too much of an interest in putting a sub in my trunk, but I will as a last resort. .... I just want better louder brassier speakers

This is going to be the cheapest way for you to get the results you are looking for, find a nice 10" or 12" sub in a small ported box, mount a 500W amp on the box (I know, I know mounting to the box rattles the amp, but hear me out here) run the power wires to a quick disconnect (ie. a dryer cord male and female coupling)
like this..
then all you have to do when you want the full trunk back is unplug the RCAs and the dryer plug and pull the whole assembly out. (did this in a jeep and it worked GREAT for years)
on the LS, everything you need is already in the trunk so you wont have to bother with tearing into the dash or running any wires through the car, just in the trunk.

as far as replacing the stock speakers, I have the s-type infinity and they work great, plenty of Bass. unfortunately for me though, Bass is like potato chips, tattoos and horsepower, I quickly get used to what I have and want more....

I agree with what the above posts have been saying, if you want more Bass you are going to need more watts, ie. an amp.

 

[1LoudLS]

About "downgrading" the speakers, they have the same sound quality.

How the hell is that even possible? How can two different speakers have the same sound quality?

Lets start off with the tweeter... the 1 way base speakers don't have one> long story short, the size, shape, and even mass of the speaker directly has an effect on the sound it produces. a large 6x8 heavy paper driver can not move nearly as fast with as quick of a change in speed as a 1" driver made of lightweight material. therefore it can not reproduce sound anywhere near as accurate as the tweeter in its effective range (keep in mind that that driver needs to change direction between ten and twenty THOUSAND time each second). now when you factor in that the 6x8" driver also has to reproduce those ultra high freq sounds at the same time its trying to reproduce sound waves that are moving below a hundred times a second. the bass is way more powerful and will always cause distortion in the higher end.

How about the low end? well honestly there isn't much of one with the smaller driver and the small sealed enclosure around it in the components. but, they don't need to, they are a part of a designed system, the subs get to do this job and they do it well. the one way 6x8 driver has quite a bit more surface area and command much more and much deeper bass than the components can. doesn't matter because they can't come close to the kind of bass the two 6x9 subs with their own dedicated (and decently powered) amp. which anybody that has the factory components would also have, so they wouldn't have any benefit of the higher bass output of the 1-ways vs the 2-ways.

So yes, I say it again. removing premium sound components and replacing them with the 1-way base speaker is in every count a downgrade. period.

The components just don't handle as much power.

based on what?, they can handle more power, which is one of the reasons they are always used in cars with larger OEM external amps (THX, Mach, JBL...) and why the cheap 1-ways are put in cars with very weak internal amps...

That was a suggestion since not everyone wants to spend money on aftermarket speakers that are barely going improve the factory sound. Like I said it is a cheaper alternative since you can get these at a junkyard for around $10 a pair.

sounds like a waste of $10...

 

[Lincoln]

How the hell is that even possible? How can two different speakers have the same sound quality?

Just because a speaker is built different, doesn't mean it can't reproduce the same frequencies.

Lets start off with the tweeter... the 1 way base speakers don't have one> long story short, the size, shape, and even mass of the speaker directly has an effect on the sound it produces. a large 6x8 heavy paper driver can not move nearly as fast with as quick of a change in speed as a 1" driver made of lightweight material. therefore it can not reproduce sound anywhere near as accurate as the tweeter in its effective range (keep in mind that that driver needs to change direction between ten and twenty THOUSAND time each second). now when you factor in that the 6x8" driver also has to reproduce those ultra high freq sounds at the same time its trying to reproduce sound waves that are moving below a hundred times a second. the bass is way more powerful and will always cause distortion in the higher end.

How about the low end? well honestly there isn't much of one with the smaller driver and the small sealed enclosure around it in the components. but, they don't need to, they are a part of a designed system, the subs get to do this job and they do it well. the one way 6x8 driver has quite a bit more surface area and command much more and much deeper bass than the components can. doesn't matter because they can't come close to the kind of bass the two 6x9 subs with their own dedicated (and decently powered) amp. which anybody that has the factory components would also have, so they wouldn't have any benefit of the higher bass output of the 1-ways vs the 2-ways.

You're just saying the same thing I said earlier about surface area. C'mon, you're running in circles.

based on what?, they can handle more power, which is one of the reasons they are always used in cars with larger OEM external amps (THX, Mach, JBL...) and why the cheap 1-ways are put in cars with very weak internal amps...

Based on that I have ACTUALLY connected the components to an after market amp and they wouldn't hold up. These components are for looks and to make you feel better about the extra money you paid for the "premium sound".

sounds like a waste of $10...

Sounds like you haven't actually tried anything.

See, you're just going off specs and specs don't mean nothing if you haven't put things to the test to see the REAL results. Which I have done with both factory sets of speakers. So whatever you say of how a speaker is built or how it's 'supposed to perform', goes out the window when my test proved the opposite. All Janobala wants is to add a little more bass to his sound and I just suggested the cheap speakers just in case he had the factory components and isn't interested in spending money. With that, for some reason, you got offended when I said that those speakers outperformed the components. Seems like you're just trying to +1 because your'e the type of person that could never be wrong. You also seem like the type that gets mad because you build something for $1000 and someone else comes and does better than you with a $100. I mean I wouldn't say that my V6 is faster then your v8 if it wasn't, because I could already hear you saying that it's not possible because the v8 puts out more HP right?. Cheers.

 

[joegr]

One of these two people doesn't know what they are talking about. I hope that most here know which one it is.


“Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.”

― Mark Twain

 

[1LoudLS]

Just because a speaker is built different, doesn't mean it can't reproduce the same frequencies.

actually it kinda does... while in theory, it may be possible for two different styles (and different sized drivers) to be able to sound similar, in the real world, it just doesn't happen. even the smallest differences has an effect over sound quality. there are hundreds of different speakers out there, every one of them sounds different.

You're just saying the same thing I said earlier about surface area. C'mon, you're running in circles.

no, running in circles is simultaneously making an argument that two different speakers sound the same, but yet also sound different enough as to be worth spending money (especially for somebody that is supposed to be "not wanting to spend money...") to get better sound. which is it bud? can't bet on both horses.

Based on that I have ACTUALLY connected the components to an after market amp and they wouldn't hold up. These components are for looks and to make you feel better about the extra money you paid for the "premium sound".

maybe you should work on your tuning, just by listening to what you've said so far, you have no clue how to properly set stuff up without the knowledge of how things work... the OEM components can handle an amp no problem, I have personally installed amps on three different LS's while keeping the factory components. two 5ch and one with a dedicated 4ch for internals. never had a problem with being able to crank the hell out of them. only one of them ended up wanting to take it further and replace all the speakers. the other two were happy with how they sounded

Sounds like you haven't actually tried anything.

yeah, you're probably right, but then my company has probably been overpaying my since I have been getting paid to install sound systems for the last decade and a half, and running it for the last half of that. in 14 years I have never tried to experiment with anything.

See, you're just going off specs and specs don't mean nothing if you haven't put things to the test to see the REAL results.

see above, also since you haven't been around awhile, go ahead and search around. any of the people that I've help on here will be more than happy to tell you about REAL results.

Which I have done with both factory sets of speakers. So whatever you say of how a speaker is built or how it's 'supposed to perform', goes out the window when my test proved the opposite.

your one test, with your (questionable) ears, in your limited circumstances for some reason doesn't shake the year of experience I've personally seen... go figure.

All Janobala wants is to add a little more bass to his sound and I just suggested the cheap speakers just in case he had the factory components and isn't interested in spending money.

which he isnt going to get any more bass, thats what your not getting... he has the premium sound system. he has factory subs that are bigger and have much more power that the radio can dish out... your junk ass speakers could literally produce ten times as much bass and you still would be able to tell any difference over the subs... moreover, even with all that, it is not enough bass for him... do you really think that switching those speakers out is going to give him enough to satisfy his thirst?

With that, for some reason, you got offended when I said that those speakers outperformed the components. Seems like you're just trying to +1 because your'e the type of person that could never be wrong.

sorry I just get offended when somebody is seeking advice or help and there is that one person coming out of left field is spouting off just plain wrong information and conspiracies about premium sound option being a fake waste of money with no difference...

You also seem like the type that gets mad because you build something for $1000 and someone else comes and does better than you with a $100. I mean I wouldn't say that my V6 is faster then your v8 if it wasn't, because I could already hear you saying that it's not possible because the v8 puts out more HP right?. Cheers.

well I've sure seen my fair share of cobbled together sound systems, and even with how amazing they sounded, I still chose to spend ten fold what they did, just to get worse sound (if that was the case, I probably would have much of a customer base left coming back). yep, you got me there!



I wouldn't say that my V6 is faster then your v8 if it wasn't, because I could already hear you saying that it's not possible because the v8 puts out more HP right?. [/QUOTE] actually I thrive off of real world results. if you said that in front of me, I would just respond with "I'll be your huckleberry" and then we would find out right there instead of theorizing all night... I also know that just because its a V6 doesn't mean that it is slower than my V8, I also know very well what a V6 would have to have done to it to keep up. I also drive an LS, I am very aware that it doesn't win every race...

 

[1LoudLS]

One of these two people doesn't know what they are talking about. I hope that most here know which one it is.

is it that obvious? lol

“Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.”

― Mark Twain

thats the risk we sometimes must take. hell all I can do is put all of the evidence out there and let the people judge for themselves who does and doesn't know what they are talking about...




so with that, I rest my case.
hopefully the jury isn't out too long.