Got an 02 LS v8. Lately my heat has been terrible. Car takes forever to heat up and even when it was below 40°f car never got over 170. My guess is t stat but after trolling this forum nothing seems simple on this car. Also thew a P0125 code.
Lousy heat tstat????
- Thread starter gixxer1kr
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joegr
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Yes, it might be. Be warned that you should go ahead and buy the thermostat housing and fill cap (you can get a metal Jaguar one). It will probably crack when you remove it to change the thermostat. Also, you'll want to replace the degas bottle and probably the rest of the plastic cooling system parts. Be sure to bleed it correctly when you are done.
http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/tech/drain-lincoln-ls-cooling-system/
http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/tech/drain-lincoln-ls-cooling-system/
RigsLS
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Does not look fun. Looks about as interesting as the valve cover gaskets. That was horrible.Dealer quoted me $450 just to do the tstat. Looks like I may do this myself too. Should I do the DCCV also. Car has 90k. All the plastic looks good but hate to find out the hard way.
RigsLS
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If it's working fine, it's not that you have to, only reason most do it is because all components age at the same time,
up to you, you could leave it for now, if you don't mind doing it later.
up to you, you could leave it for now, if you don't mind doing it later.
Telco
Dedicated LVC Member
It isn't hard work, the main problems are the thermostat housing requires removing the intake to get at the rear two bolts (at least on the 2nd gen V8s) and the degas bottle has a hose clamp between the firewall and the rear of the engine that is difficult to get at. Other than that it's no more difficult than replacing similar parts on any other car. Expect to spend in the neighborhood of 600 bucks for parts if you do it yourself and if you don't replace them all at once board experience has been that you will have another part fail every couple of months until all parts are replaced. You will also have better luck finding parts at the Jag dealer than at the Lincoln dealer who (at least for me) has only ever successfully found me the correct battery.
My main complaint on the car is this is a job that has to be done every 100K miles or so because the plastic used isn't suitable for repeated heat and pressure cycles.
RigsLS
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it deteriorates, it looses pressure, system fails.
RigsLS
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Let me stress the fact that you don't have to replace everything, it's only recommended due to all parts aging at the same time and are exposed to the same heat cycles throughout. Most that end up with some sort of heating system problems, overheating, no heat or leaking somewhere, tend to replace and redo the entire system.
It's a know fact that when someone wants to change a Thermostat or refill with coolant, they will tend to find that when they go to remove the black plastic fill cap on top of the thermostat housing, it will be difficult to get off, it will either strip or crack, the housing may crack with it or not, all depends on how brittle it has gotten.
I couldn't get my fill cap off at all on the first few attempts. At that time I was having little or no heat issues and coolant level was low, nothing was leaking yet. I ended up not touching it any further until I had the replacement JAG stat housing and other involved part in hand.
As I began to order parts, things got worse. eventually within a couple of weeks, (and I topped up the coolant twice and re-bled the system) I ended up driving home one cold night with no heat at all. followed by dripping coolant directly behind the drivers front wheel. (=degas bottle) No overheating but on it's way no doubt.
My original problem was no heat at idle but good heat at higher rev, which on the 1[SUP]st[/SUP] GEN V8 is the famous Auxiliary Coolant Flow Pump problem.
Re&Re - OEM Auxiliary Coolant Flow Pump - GEN 1 V8
It was also at the same time getting low on coolant which required me to top it up and rebleed, so the point there is, it's already leaking somewhere and unable to hold it's pressure. yet I could not spot any leaks at that time.
So you can see, one thing leads to another, eventually while dealing with this and ordering the parts, the degas bottle began to leak.
for me it was pretty simple, the whole cooling system needed to be refreshed.
Once these cars start to hit 10+ yrs old, the plastics that make up the cooling system get to a point where they are starting to break down due to high heat cycles over the years.
Should you do the whole system?
I don't want to be the one that puts in your head that you MUST, however like any gamble in life, you may find yourself having fixed this Thermostat to only discover it won't hold pressure when you go to bleed the system because another hairline crack formed or was already present at this time.
Soon as you have it back together and washing up your hands, next trip out, she may overheat and begin to piss coolant behind the drivers front wheel due to a faulty degas bottle.
See where I'm going with this?
You can change one part now, be done with it to only find you'll need to get in there again following week,
these thing have a way of handing you problem after problem unless you address the system as a whole.
You'll also find that when you go to remove the t-stat housing, when you get it off and cleaned up, hold it up for good lighting, you'll notice brown pitting spots on the inside of the housing, this is known as the beginning of the deterioration/break-down of the plastics. I noticed it on the inside of my outlet pipe as well.
Some here on this forum have begun to replace some parts and things completed break apart looking like brown old flaked plastic, specifically either the filler neck tube and thread or anywhere the plastic meets up with a hose and clamp.
I've seen some pictures posted on here where, once they remove the clamps and begin to slide the hoses off the outlet pipe, it just falls apart, like brittle old plastic would. Makes you wonder how it held up this long.
The Auxiliary Coolant Flow Pump and DCCV may not need to be replaced at this time unless it's currently the direct cause of your problems.
It's up to you if you wish to replace those parts now or later, do you not mind breaking the system open again some time down the road or do you replace it now while you have your pants down sorta speak.
My Coolant flow pump was an issue and my Duel Coolant Control Valve (DCCV) was also only giving me heat out the passenger side vent and cool out the drivers side vent, so they both needed to be replaced. My degas bottle at the very end began to leak and I'm sure the cracks where there all along, not like they suddenly developed overnight.
The cooling system must be air tight and able to sustain/hold pressure as the engine gets up to temp. No coolant may escape, not air may enter.
The smallest hairline crack or defective part is going to give issues with this, the LS cooling system is so delicately designed that once one part gives, several follow or simply put, it gets old and starts to fail as an individual part and/or quickly followed as a whole.
It's just the way it is, you make something stronger, it fails elsewhere shortly there after. You can keep putting band-aids on it, eventually you'll have completed the whole system.
(personally myself I would begin to inspect the whole system and go ahead and start ordering parts and refresh it as a whole)
There are people on this forum that can help you!
Parts are listed in the links I provided.
Someone on here possible does have a whole list compiled.
GLWR
^ sorry for the ramble
It's a know fact that when someone wants to change a Thermostat or refill with coolant, they will tend to find that when they go to remove the black plastic fill cap on top of the thermostat housing, it will be difficult to get off, it will either strip or crack, the housing may crack with it or not, all depends on how brittle it has gotten.
I couldn't get my fill cap off at all on the first few attempts. At that time I was having little or no heat issues and coolant level was low, nothing was leaking yet. I ended up not touching it any further until I had the replacement JAG stat housing and other involved part in hand.
As I began to order parts, things got worse. eventually within a couple of weeks, (and I topped up the coolant twice and re-bled the system) I ended up driving home one cold night with no heat at all. followed by dripping coolant directly behind the drivers front wheel. (=degas bottle) No overheating but on it's way no doubt.
My original problem was no heat at idle but good heat at higher rev, which on the 1[SUP]st[/SUP] GEN V8 is the famous Auxiliary Coolant Flow Pump problem.
Re&Re - OEM Auxiliary Coolant Flow Pump - GEN 1 V8
It was also at the same time getting low on coolant which required me to top it up and rebleed, so the point there is, it's already leaking somewhere and unable to hold it's pressure. yet I could not spot any leaks at that time.
So you can see, one thing leads to another, eventually while dealing with this and ordering the parts, the degas bottle began to leak.
for me it was pretty simple, the whole cooling system needed to be refreshed.
Once these cars start to hit 10+ yrs old, the plastics that make up the cooling system get to a point where they are starting to break down due to high heat cycles over the years.
Should you do the whole system?
I don't want to be the one that puts in your head that you MUST, however like any gamble in life, you may find yourself having fixed this Thermostat to only discover it won't hold pressure when you go to bleed the system because another hairline crack formed or was already present at this time.
Soon as you have it back together and washing up your hands, next trip out, she may overheat and begin to piss coolant behind the drivers front wheel due to a faulty degas bottle.
See where I'm going with this?
You can change one part now, be done with it to only find you'll need to get in there again following week,
these thing have a way of handing you problem after problem unless you address the system as a whole.
You'll also find that when you go to remove the t-stat housing, when you get it off and cleaned up, hold it up for good lighting, you'll notice brown pitting spots on the inside of the housing, this is known as the beginning of the deterioration/break-down of the plastics. I noticed it on the inside of my outlet pipe as well.
Some here on this forum have begun to replace some parts and things completed break apart looking like brown old flaked plastic, specifically either the filler neck tube and thread or anywhere the plastic meets up with a hose and clamp.
I've seen some pictures posted on here where, once they remove the clamps and begin to slide the hoses off the outlet pipe, it just falls apart, like brittle old plastic would. Makes you wonder how it held up this long.
The Auxiliary Coolant Flow Pump and DCCV may not need to be replaced at this time unless it's currently the direct cause of your problems.
It's up to you if you wish to replace those parts now or later, do you not mind breaking the system open again some time down the road or do you replace it now while you have your pants down sorta speak.
My Coolant flow pump was an issue and my Duel Coolant Control Valve (DCCV) was also only giving me heat out the passenger side vent and cool out the drivers side vent, so they both needed to be replaced. My degas bottle at the very end began to leak and I'm sure the cracks where there all along, not like they suddenly developed overnight.
The cooling system must be air tight and able to sustain/hold pressure as the engine gets up to temp. No coolant may escape, not air may enter.
The smallest hairline crack or defective part is going to give issues with this, the LS cooling system is so delicately designed that once one part gives, several follow or simply put, it gets old and starts to fail as an individual part and/or quickly followed as a whole.
It's just the way it is, you make something stronger, it fails elsewhere shortly there after. You can keep putting band-aids on it, eventually you'll have completed the whole system.
(personally myself I would begin to inspect the whole system and go ahead and start ordering parts and refresh it as a whole)
There are people on this forum that can help you!
Parts are listed in the links I provided.
Someone on here possible does have a whole list compiled.
GLWR
^ sorry for the ramble
Telco
Dedicated LVC Member
To add to Bigrig's long post, I went the other way and just replaced everything in one go. My car was bubbling when I shut it off (sounded like boiling water rushing somewhere) and very shortly after started seeping out of a plastic injection breakoff point on the upper radiator hose. Look at the upper hose, you will see a plastic fitting in the middle with a small rough rectangle on the top. It was seeping right out that rough patch. After replacing everything, no further issues. It was a one and done job. In addition to the seeping fitting I discovered that the degas bottle had multiple cracks and the thermostat housing had an internal arm crack out causing the thermostat to sit cock-eyed inside the housing. I wasn't having any overheat or heater issues YET, and from the state of the thermostat I don't understand why that was unless it was able to get enough tension off the internal arm that wasn't cracked yet to still open and close.
Good luck with your decision if you decide to go a part at a time, just don't be frustrated if you can't resolve it after replacing a single part.
I'll also add, go ahead and spring for the extra for the Motorcraft degas bottle instead of the cheaper Dorman bottle. I may be wrong but I don't think anyone here who tried the Dorman bottle had it last more than a year before having to replace it again. And, the Motorcraft bottle and the Dorman bottle don't have the same thread pitch, meaning you can't use a Motorcraft cap on a Dorman bottle, or vice versa. They won't hold pressure.
Good luck with your decision if you decide to go a part at a time, just don't be frustrated if you can't resolve it after replacing a single part.
I'll also add, go ahead and spring for the extra for the Motorcraft degas bottle instead of the cheaper Dorman bottle. I may be wrong but I don't think anyone here who tried the Dorman bottle had it last more than a year before having to replace it again. And, the Motorcraft bottle and the Dorman bottle don't have the same thread pitch, meaning you can't use a Motorcraft cap on a Dorman bottle, or vice versa. They won't hold pressure.
RigsLS
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It's a great "looking" ride, just keep in mind as ANY vehicle ages, the gremlins WILL come out to play, it's NOT specific to the 00-06 Lincoln LS.
Sparkplug70
LVC Member
DAMN....Thanks for the info on how,why,what, on the coolant system. I myself have a 2004 V8 and i was wondering why i am on my 2nd repair just after a new radiator.. It's not coming out of garage until i R&R the complete plastic system. Does Jag offer any replacement parts in metal in stead of all this damn plastic ?
joegr
Dedicated LVC Member
Well thanks for all the advice guys. I finally got around to addressing the heat issue. Ordered the Jag metal t stat housing but didn't need it I was shocked. Everything came apart and went back together like a new car. I gave it a good flushing and put in the new t stat and bled it. Heat is smoking hot and could cook my face !!!! This was the easiest thing I've done to this car yet.
RigsLS
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Put the all aluminum JAG stat on the shelf and hold onto it, you eventually need it, unless you plan to part with the LS soon.
Glad you managed, imagine some, simply pull hairs over bleeding this thing properly. LEAKS LEAKS LEAKS .... unable to bleed.
+1
Glad you managed, imagine some, simply pull hairs over bleeding this thing properly. LEAKS LEAKS LEAKS .... unable to bleed.
+1