Loud Squeal over Bumps, P1474

[insightbrwry]

Hi guys, I posted about my 2002 V6 LS problems in the Lincoln Owners forum several weeks ago but nobody responded, so I thought I'd join here .

So I recently acquired a 2002 V6 Lincoln LS for a few bucks and have a few problems that I'd like to address. First, it makes a loud squeal (metal-on-metal sound) going over bumps. If I'm turning right over a bump and going faster than 10 MPH, it jerks the car away from the turn path and clunks hard.

Is this the ball joint issue (i.e., how should I check)? PO said he replaced the driver's ball joint (didn't know if lower or upper) after it broke on the highway, and that it was making the same sort of noise.

I'm going to check tomorrow if I have 14mm or 16mm ball joint studs. If I have 14mm, can I replace the upper and lower control arms plus the steering knuckle with 16mm versions? I read that the 16mm is pretty bulletproof by comparison.

If it is the ball joints, is there a brand of parts you guys would recommend? I'm on a budget, but I'd like to see what it would cost to try and solve this issue permanently. I would be doing one side for now, then the other in about a month.

Next up, I have a P1474: Low Fan Control Primary Circuit Malfunction. I know that the cooling fan is hydraulic, where should I start troubleshooting this/running tests?

Thanks guys, I'd like to prevent my suspension failing on the highway as I drive this car long distances for work.

 

[fudge12]

Check your suspension for loose/bent parts. Check the strut tower under the hood for any missing/broken strut mount bolts and studs. As far as ball joints, check them. I personally had my passenger side lower ball joint fail on my LS. it ain't no joke.

The code you are pulling is most likely a faulty actuator valve/solenoid. Replace this part and flush the hydraulic fluid with ATF. Most likely you shouldn't have an issue, If you continue to pull the same codes after a pcm reset, it could be due to faulty wiring, or maybe even a faulty pcm.

With that being said, is the fluid in the reservoir a transparent dark red color? If not you may have contaminants in your system. Usually people get confused and they throw in all sorts of fluid In there from antifreeze and washer fluid, this will cause issues with the fans hydraulic system.

Ahh... the good old days of owning a LS.

 

[insightbrwry]

Check your suspension for loose/bent parts. Check the strut tower under the hood for any missing/broken strut mount bolts and studs. As far as ball joints, check them. I personally had my passenger side lower ball joint fail on my LS. it ain't no joke.

The code you are pulling is most likely a faulty actuator valve/solenoid. Replace this part and flush the hydraulic fluid with ATF. Most likely you shouldn't have an issue, If you continue to pull the same codes after a pcm reset, it could be due to faulty wiring, or maybe even a faulty pcm.

With that being said, is the fluid in the reservoir a transparent dark red color? If not you may have contaminants in your system. Usually people get confused and they throw in all sorts of fluid In there from antifreeze and washer fluid, this will cause issues with the fans hydraulic system.

Ahh... the good old days of owning a LS.

Thanks for the reply. So the sticker says "Date: 09/01," which I take it means it has 14mm studs (until 3/11/2002, according to RockAuto). I'm checking the ball joint now.

Can I buy upper control arms, lower control arms, and ball joints in 16mm and upgrade the car? I guess what I'm asking is, are the subframe mounting points the same for 14mm and 16mm? If nothing else, I'll try 14mm and 16mm and return what isn't used.

Also, is there a brand of the suspension components you'd recommend?

 

[insightbrwry]

Thanks for the reply. So the sticker says "Date: 09/01," which I take it means it has 14mm studs (until 3/11/2002, according to RockAuto). I'm checking the ball joint now.

Can I buy upper control arms, lower control arms, and ball joints in 16mm and upgrade the car? I guess what I'm asking is, are the subframe mounting points the same for 14mm and 16mm? If nothing else, I'll try 14mm and 16mm and return what isn't used.

Also, is there a brand of the suspension components you'd recommend?

OK, checked it out and the upper ball joint is greaseless and outer tie rods are both shot. I decided to go with Mevotech 14mm parts for now, ordered the knuckle assembly (lower ball joint), upper control arm, outer tie rods, and stabilizer bar links. I'll check back in once I have those installed.

 

[insightbrwry]

OK, have another question before I got to install the suspension components. The transmission is slipping and I'm going to address that first with a couple fluid drain-and-refills. Following the advice here: Transmission fill easy as pie

...I'm thinking I want to install an auxiliary cooler and magnetic in-line filter as well. What size are the cooler lines? On my Taurus they're 3/8", but I'm looking on RA and the Motorcraft in-line filter (I will probably not use, will prob. go for a Wix/Filtran or Magnefine) is 1/2".

 

[joegr]

Why? Your LS already has a large air to oil transmission cooler in front of the condenser in front of the radiator. Would you put the extra one in front of that? What would it accomplish? Also, there is already a large magnet in the bottom of the transmission pan.

An in-line filter is not a terrible idea, and the factory manual already specifies one to use with any transmission repairs where there might be contamination.

IF your transmission really is slipping, it is too late for a fluid change, and it will just be a waste of time. It is full rebuild time. If it is not really slipping and is just not shifting right, then it could be the valve body or solenoids. Still, just changing the fluid won't fix it. I'd repair it and then change the fluid, since some of it has to be drained to replace parts anyway.

 

[jasond]

Sounds like you and I are in a pretty similar boat. I have been debugging a 2002 LS V6, 76k miles, that I paid a grand for. Put over $1000 into the suspension and brakes alone, although that included a set of Eibach springs I got from Ebay, along with powerstop drilled and slotted rotors. When you reassemble the suspension, be sure to use some loctite and recheck the nuts after a few hundred miles. I bought MAS outer tie rod ends from Rock Auto, installed them and the nuts came loose, which is not cool. While you are doing all of this, you may want to replace the front sway bar bushings as well, which is a royal PITA. That job took several hours, a few beers, and a lot of cursing. Good luck and let me know how you make out.

 

[joegr]

You are supposed to discard the used nuts and get new nyloc nuts! The aluminum parts expand and contract and will work the bolts/nuts loose otherwise. This is well known.

 

[jasond]

You are supposed to discard the used nuts and get new nyloc nuts! The aluminum parts expand and contract and will work the bolts/nuts loose otherwise. This is well known.

I used the new nuts that came with the MAS tie rod ends.... they are what came loose.. :-/

 

[insightbrwry]

Why? Your LS already has a large air to oil transmission cooler in front of the condenser in front of the radiator. Would you put the extra one in front of that? What would it accomplish? Also, there is already a large magnet in the bottom of the transmission pan.

An in-line filter is not a terrible idea, and the factory manual already specifies one to use with any transmission repairs where there might be contamination.

IF your transmission really is slipping, it is too late for a fluid change, and it will just be a waste of time. It is full rebuild time. If it is not really slipping and is just not shifting right, then it could be the valve body or solenoids. Still, just changing the fluid won't fix it. I'd repair it and then change the fluid, since some of it has to be drained to replace parts anyway.

Ah, I didn't know that...was thinking about it because I do a lot of this on various Hondas and Acuras. Thanks! I'll check the factory manual and see the inline filter to check the hose size.

Well, I did some more research and it seems the hard shifting in lower gears, and slow P-D transition are indicative of solenoid pack failure. Found two part numbers:

XW4Z-7G391-AC

which says it was replaced by: XW4Z-7G391-AF

Is the second the latest/most updated part number? My new plan is replace solenoid pack, filter, pan gasket, install inline filter, then refill the trans, drive around, redrain, refill.

Sounds like you and I are in a pretty similar boat. I have been debugging a 2002 LS V6, 76k miles, that I paid a grand for. Put over $1000 into the suspension and brakes alone, although that included a set of Eibach springs I got from Ebay, along with powerstop drilled and slotted rotors. When you reassemble the suspension, be sure to use some loctite and recheck the nuts after a few hundred miles. I bought MAS outer tie rod ends from Rock Auto, installed them and the nuts came loose, which is not cool. While you are doing all of this, you may want to replace the front sway bar bushings as well, which is a royal PITA. That job took several hours, a few beers, and a lot of cursing. Good luck and let me know how you make out.

Yikes, thanks. I've got some blue Loctite sitting around, hope that'll be good. Probably not going to do the bushings (too many other things to do!), but I'll report back.

 

[04_Sport_LS]

Why? Your LS already has a large air to oil transmission cooler in front of the condenser in front of the radiator. Would you put the extra one in front of that? What would it accomplish? Also, there is already a large magnet in the bottom of the transmission pan.

Agreed!!! +10.

 

[04_Sport_LS]

First, it makes a loud squeal (metal-on-metal sound) going over bumps.

You need to determine which end of the LS, (front or rear)... is squeaking over bumps. If I had to guess, (which may be wrong),,, i'd say your "squeak" is coming from the rear lower control arms. $500 in control arms should fix the problem,,, but unless you are a "true" mechanic, (diagnostitician)... you may not know. 14mm and 16mm ball joints are NOT interchangeable,,, unless you are willing to pay the extra "spank" for new steering knuckles. You don't want to pay that for a vehicle you spent "a couple hundred" bucks on.

Work within the limits of the year LS you bought... and buy the appropriate parts for the year. It's still gonna be expensive... but NOT as expensive as trying to "up-convert" what you have.

 

[04_Sport_LS]

I used the new nuts that came with the MAS tie rod ends.... they are what came loose.. :-/

Then the MAS parts for a lincoln... are JUNK!!! The old addage "you get what you pay for"... applies here.

 

[04_Sport_LS]

Ah, I didn't know that...was thinking about it because I do a lot of this on various Hondas and Acuras.

I don't mean,,, and am not trying to be a d!ck... but this is the difference between a "mechanic",,, and a "wrench". First... Honda is a Front wheel drive vehicle... while the LS, (Jaguar), is a rear wheel drive vehicle. Not to mention that each engineers designed their vehicles and drivelines... with those points in mind.

They BOTH have different specifications and designs... around the "platform" specifications of the vehicle. Soo... things that are "right" for the Jag,,, most likely won't be "right" for the Honda. This works for parts,,, fluid management... and torque specs.

Hypothetically speaking... the difference in caliper bolt torque specs... could be as much or little as 25-30 FT-LBS. That could be the differnce between "under torquing" a bolt... or snapiing it off.

Same goes for ANY vehicle... depending on their "design specifications". This applies to "fluid applications" too.

 

[04_Sport_LS]

There's a reason why automobile manufacturers have specifications on EVERYTHING... from torque amounts to fluids,,, and they are all based around the original design of the specs of the "individual" manufacturer.

 

[insightbrwry]

I don't mean,,, and am not trying to be a d!ck... but this is the difference between a "mechanic",,, and a "wrench". First... Honda is a Front wheel drive vehicle... while the LS, (Jaguar), is a rear wheel drive vehicle. Not to mention that each engineers designed their vehicles and drivelines... with those points in mind.

They BOTH have different specifications and designs... around the "platform" specifications of the vehicle. Soo... things that are "right" for the Jag,,, most likely won't be "right" for the Honda. This works for parts,,, fluid management... and torque specs.

Hypothetically speaking... the difference in caliper bolt torque specs... could be as much or little as 25-30 FT-LBS. That could be the differnce between "under torquing" a bolt... or snapiing it off.

Same goes for ANY vehicle... depending on their "design specifications". This applies to "fluid applications" too.

Oh of course...I'm no stranger to working on cars. The Hondas and Acuras that I toss coolers and filters on are the infamously crappy auto trans of the early 2000's. I've never seen good Ford trans either, throughout the 2000's...and I just rebuilt an '05 Taurus trans. Prescribed support is to use a good auxiliary trans cooler and inline filter, and given the problems that these 5R55N's have I figured I'd do the same. Good to know it already has a big trans cooler, so I'll add an inline filter.

The noise is definitely from the front...sounds very much like busted, greaseless ball joint. Have all that, waiting for rain to stop to replace. Today the driver's wheel bearing started grinding, so I have a couple Timkens on order for the front.

Last, going to drain and refill the diff. I got the service history of the car and it apparently had the updated solenoid pack installed, so I am going to:

- change filter and pan gasket with Wix 58117
- drain, refill, drive 10 minutes, repeat twice
- get the torque converter under cover, which is missing

I HATE dealing with Ford dealerships. Their parts diagrams, parts counter personnel, everything is so messed up. I can walk into a Toyota dealership and point out exactly what I need on a diagram, but the equivalent Ford diagram won't show the fasteners (in my case, for the under cover) or something like that.

Going to refill with Valvoline MaxLife.

I am planning to drain the TC as well, and the FSM says to replace the drain plug each time. Would you guys say this is necessary, or can I just put it back in? For that matter, do I need to apply threadlocker or anything on the trans fill/drain plugs and diff fill/drain plugs, or just torque to spec?

 

[04_Sport_LS]

I re-used the drain plug... but made sure the gasket was still good. Main issue with the drain plug... is that the smaller fill plug "seizes",,, and then the allen hex strips/rounds out.

Just in case,,, buy a new drain/fill plug... and a couple spare gaskets for the drain plug. The Ford parts are relativly cheap,,, and it's good insurance to have the extra parts if you need them, (and your LS is your only transportation). Might save you "down time" when you can't afford it.

 

[insightbrwry]

I re-used the drain plug... but made sure the gasket was still good. Main issue with the drain plug... is that the smaller fill plug "seizes",,, and then the allen hex strips/rounds out.

Just in case,,, buy a new drain/fill plug... and a couple spare gaskets for the drain plug. The Ford parts are relativly cheap,,, and it's good insurance to have the extra parts if you need them, (and your LS is your only transportation). Might save you "down time" when you can't afford it.

Thanks. Any idea about the drain plug on the torque converter?

 

[04_Sport_LS]

Are you SURE you HAVE a drain plug on your torque converter??? I know what most information says... but most torque converters in the LS don't have a drain plug. If it does... then it will most likely be a tapered pipe plug,,, so it won't have a gasket. If so,,, just make sure it's snug.

 

[insightbrwry]

Are you SURE you HAVE a drain plug on your torque converter??? I know what most information says... but most torque converters in the LS don't have a drain plug. If it does... then it will most likely be a tapered pipe plug,,, so it won't have a gasket. If so,,, just make sure it's snug.

Cool, I'll check when I get to it tomorrow. Suspension will have to wait a couple days, inner tie rods are bad and I have a couple on order from Amazon.

I was planning to do transmission flushing tomorrow, anybody know which line is the return to install the magnefine?

 

[insightbrwry]

OK, got some updates. Didn't get to the transmission yet, sorry about not posting back when I said.

Today I installed the driver's knuckle, UCA, hub assemblies, tie rod ends, and driver's side inner tie rod. The idiots at AutoZone rented me the right tie rod tool box...but had the wrong tool inside. Figures my adjustable wrench is too thick to get a grip on the passenger's side inner tie rod. I ordered a Lisle tie rod tool set and large clamps for the tie rod boots from Amazon. Just regular worm-gear clamps, none of that OEM fanciness.

Noticed that the Pirellis the PO put on there are rubbed through to the belting, which tells me I better get those and an alignment ASAP (steering wheel's been crooked for a while). On the test drive, the wheel was wobbling hard near the center, so I will recheck after alignment tomorrow morning. The squeak over bumps is still there, but I think I figured that one out: a steel cup is loose on the driver's side front shock absorber. No more grinding from the wheel bearings.

I used Timken hub assemblies, and they came well packaged with antiseize already applied. Did run into one issue: one assembly had an improperly tapped hole and chewed up one of the bolts halfway in. I didn't notice 'til it poked through and I saw no threads. Torqued fine, holds fine, and comes out fine, so I will run a tap when I do the brakes.

Also noticed that the passenger's UCA ball joint is open to the elements. PO said he did that side, but I guess the 14mm inadequacy is starting to show.

Lol, I realize this post is all over the place, but I'm very tired so give me a break. One last thing: brake pads are worn down almost to the metal, and driver's caliper anchor plate had one wrong bolt. Will order a Powerstop ceramic rotor and brake pad kit from RA, and get a bolt from the dealer.