Looks like Obama might be finished.

[Kbob]

You know, while this does remind me of the 911 truther BS, what rings an even bigger bell is the uproar over Bush's national guard records. There was, and still is, plenty of circumstantial evidence suggesting that the records had been "cleaned" prior to his campaign in 1999. Not to mention the allegations of cocaine use.

I also remember Kerry wouldn't release a document on his war record, either, for similar reasons.

I agree with Bryan: just show the birth certificate. Obama's not doing that because there's not enough people wanting him to produce it. The more that complain, the more pressure will be brought to bear. Just show it and prove the naysayers wrong. Unless you've got something to hide, Mr. Obama?

For those that are defending Obama on this, why? If it's not a big deal to you, then don't post or simply state your opinion and move on.

 

[fossten]

Not one person has defended Obama on this. We're all just dumbfounded as to how Bryan's going to MAKE Obama show the birth certificate.

 

[MonsterMark]

A lawsuit is already in progress to FORCE him to show it. I don't have to do anything but sit back and enjoy.

I just cant' believe ordinary Americans have no dog in this fight. Like the Constitution means nothing. That is the most troubling of all.

I dont' even have a problem if there is nothing out of order with his certificate. Bravo for him. I just want anybody that wants to hold the highest office to qualify, according to the rules. Is that too much to ask?

Guess so.

 

[Marcus]

A lawsuit is already in progress to FORCE him to show it. I don't have to do anything but sit back and enjoy.

OK, good luck with that.

I just cant' believe ordinary Americans have no dog in this fight. Like the Constitution means nothing. That is the most troubling of all.

What a load of crap. This has nothing to do with your championing the Constitution. Fact of the matter is, you've become so blinded with Barack Derangement Syndrome that you will stoop to any and all methods, regardless of merit, to try and get him ousted.

You can't even prove that a dual citizenship would disqualify him even if that WAS the case. Just a lot of baseless assertions. There is no doubt whatsoever---thanks to your tireless research---that he was born in Hawaii. That automatically makes him a natural born citizen, hence qualified to run for president. Dual citizenship is not addressed anywhere in the Constitution, so it is not like you have a cut and dried case even if he did have dual citizenship. If he did, it would definitely go to court, which would likely cause total chaos, assuming it wasn't thrown out immediately. But you've plainly stated elsewhere that you would welcome a civil war, so maybe this is your ultimate goal.

I dont' even have a problem if there is nothing out of order with his certificate. Bravo for him. I just want anybody that wants to hold the highest office to qualify, according to the rules. Is that too much to ask?

You're a damn liar. You'll never accept the fact that Obama is running for president. As I've stated multiple times, no matter what the Obama campaign provides as proof of his birth, you'll just find something else to complain about.

But feel free to keep wasting your time on this nonsense.

 

[MonsterMark]

OK, good luck with that.

From what I hear, both the State of Texas and State of New York are reviewing whether or not they will be contesting his records to make sure they are valid once he is officially the candidate.

What a load of crap. This has nothing to do with your championing the Constitution. Fact of the matter is, you've become so blinded with Barack Derangement Syndrome that you will stoop to any and all methods, regardless of merit, to try and get him ousted.

Considering I believe Obama to be unelectable as it is, that would seem to be contradictory to my wishes. I want him to run. He will be beat by McCain. Hillary, on the other hand I believe beats McCain. So your comment doesn't hold water.

You can't even prove that a dual citizenship would disqualify him even if that WAS the case. Just a lot of baseless assertions. There is no doubt whatsoever---thanks to your tireless research---that he was born in Hawaii. That automatically makes him a natural born citizen, hence qualified to run for president. Dual citizenship is not addressed anywhere in the Constitution, so it is not like you have a cut and dried case even if he did have dual citizenship. If he did, it would definitely go to court, which would likely cause total chaos, assuming it wasn't thrown out immediately.

The issue to be decided by the Supreme Court will be one over 'divided loyalties'. Plus, Obama being born on a boat has not been proven accurate or false at this juncture.

But you've plainly stated elsewhere that you would welcome a civil war, so maybe this is your ultimate goal.

I'm more convinced of that every day. Obama certainly makes for good kindling.

You're a damn liar. You'll never accept the fact that Obama is running for president. As I've stated multiple times, no matter what the Obama campaign provides as proof of his birth, you'll just find something else to complain about.

You are incorrect. I want Obama to run. But I want him to run if he is eligible to run. I'm a fiscal and social conservative. Upholding the constitution matters to me.

But don't worry. If he is legit, then all my efforts will turn to exposing Obama as a socialist and the harm that it will do to this country if he is elected.

But feel free to keep wasting your time on this nonsense.

It is nonsense to you, we'll agree on that.

 

[shagdrum]

There is no doubt whatsoever---thanks to your tireless research---that he was born in Hawaii. That automatically makes him a natural born citizen, hence qualified to run for president. Dual citizenship is not addressed anywhere in the Constitution, so it is not like you have a cut and dried case even if he did have dual citizenship. If he did, it would definitely go to court, which would likely cause total chaos, assuming it wasn't thrown out immediately.

I will point out that the Constitution only says that a president must be a natural born citizen. Article II section I says:

No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.​

It doesn't spell out precisely what a natural born citizen is. to find that out, you need to look to U.S. law. What is the legal definition of a "natural born citizen"? The constitution doesn't give one.

When you look at the relevant case law, it doesn't clearly define the term "natural born citizen". It shows the limits of who can and cannot be a "citizen", but not a "natural born citizen".

The closest it comes to doing so is in the case of Dred Scott v. Stanford in which a dissent states:

The first section of the second article of the Constitution uses the language, 'a natural-born citizen.' It thus assumes that citizenship may be acquired by birth. Undoubtedly, this language of the Constitution was used in reference to that principle of public law, well understood in this country at the time of the adoption of the Constitution, which referred citizenship to the place of birth.​

But this is a dissenting opinion, and not a legally binding court ruling. Also, as the above link points out, much of the majority opinion in this case was overturned by the 14th Amendment in 1868.

In most instances, this would never be an issue, but Obama's circumstances surrounding his birth are rather unique.

 

[Marcus]

In most instances, this would never be an issue, but Obama's circumstances surrounding his birth are rather unique.

Other than his father being a foreigner, how is it unique? How is it any different from a child born of an American mother and a Mexican father in Oklahoma?

 

[shagdrum]

Other than his father being a foreigner, how is it unique? How is it any different from a child born of an American mother and a Mexican father in Oklahoma?

Father a foreigner and mother very young. That is the "unique circumstances" I am talking about. Those circumstances make it ambiguous as to Obama's status as a "natural born citizen" without the clarification of what precisely constitutes a natural born citizen under U.S. law.

According to what has been claimed in a number of the links Bryan is citing, applicable law at the time was that in the event of only one parent being a citizen, that parent had to be a resident (or citizen? I can't remember exactly) for at least 5 years over the age of 16. Obama's mother had him when she was either 17 or 18 (if I remember correct).

I would like to see the actual law (or laws) relevant to this. Either a link to the law, or citation of the statue (and relevant numerical designation) to verify that, personally.

There isn't really any difference between Obama's circumstance and the hypothetical, "child born of an American mother and a Mexican father in Oklahoma". The only added factor would be the mother's age. The question isn't if that hypothetical child would be a U.S. citizen, but if he (or she) would be a "natural born citizen" as legally defined under U.S. law.

 

[fossten]

Lawsuits take time, Bryan. The election is in November. So...

If I'm Obama, I wait until the last possible moment, then I produce my valid BC, thus shutting up the lawsuit and the Manchurian candidate mongers, and I sit back and gleefully laugh at those who wasted their time on this rather than actual issues, because the election is tomorrow.

Wouldn't it be simpler just to defeat him in the election and hash out the BC stuff later?

By the way, there's a movement to declare McCain ineligible due to his ambiguous place of birth, as well. I don't see you going down that road.

 

[MonsterMark]

By the way, there's a movement to declare McCain ineligible due to his ambiguous place of birth, as well. I don't see you going down that road.

Um, the Senate declared John McCain, unanimously I might add, a natural-born citizen, and eligible to be president of the United States back in April of ‘08. Although it is non-binding, I’ll stick by that for the time being until something changes.

In interested, follow the Fred Hollander suit…

http://www.fredhollander.com/McCain Complaint.pdf

Btw, John McCain did cough up his birth certificate and it was verified as being authentic. What say you about Obama?

 

[Kbob]

You're a damn liar.

I can't let this pass by without saying something. This crosses the line. It doesn't matter that Bryan seems to not be offended. This shouldn't be tolerated in this forum. If we allow it this time, more and more people will be calling each other "damn liars". I'm not Mr. touchy or hyper-sensitive. But that went too far.

 

[fossten]

Btw, John McCain did cough up his birth certificate and it was verified as being authentic. What say you about Obama?

I say if he's not a natural born citizen, then disqualify him. But good luck making that happen. We're talking about politicians here, the same people who had Vince Foster killed, yada yada yada. Hillary Clinton's caught on video committing an election campaign laws felony, and nobody does squat. It's just impossible to get these people. Better to defeat them in the ballot box and move on. I just think you're not spending your time as wisely as you could be, is all.

And to Kbob's point, I agree - Tommy, that was uncalled for. Let's ease up on the personal attacks. It's been fairly civil around here lately, and I personally take some of the credit for that since I've learned to stop name calling.

 

[04SCTLS]

Yes,
Under most debate rules the first person to call the other names is a losing his/her arguement.
"You're mistaken", "You're misinformed" or ":What you believe is not true" or words to that effect would be a more appropriate retort.

 

[MonsterMark]

You're a damn liar.

I won't allow members of this forum to accuse me of unfairly using my mod or admin powers against them. Just won't happen. However, if two members attack each other, then I will step in.

As we all know, there is a certain someone who used to call me all sorts of names and I never used to my powers to step on him and he is welcome back at any time to participate (at his peril, lmao).

I only ask that now that you know I am an easy target, to refrain as best you can from using your newfound powers.

And to be clear.
I don't like Obama.
I dont' like the media's support of Obama.
I don't like the fac that the media ignores everything negative about Obama.
I don't like the fact that he is not transparent in dealing with this election.
If nothing comes of his eligibility, so be it.
If I(we) fail to expose Obama, I will tact over to his socialist views of the world and beat him there in the general.
I think Hillary has a better chance to win than Obama.
Therefore, it would be against my 'interests' to see Obama disqualified.
However, to be true to myself, I will participate in making sure the constitution is followed regarding the most powerful office in the land, Obama or McCain.
If the same fate befalls McCain, so be it.
To be truthful, I can feel that way because McCain is not the guy I wanted to represent me anyway.
But when push comes to shove, I will NOT sit by and let the country slip further into the socialism rat hole.
Plus, I like my money. And facing a 30-35% tax increase with Obama at the helm is not appealing to me in the least.

 

[fossten]

And to be clear.
I don't like Obama.
I dont' like the media's support of Obama.
I don't like the fac that the media ignores everything negative about Obama.
I don't like the fact that he is not transparent in dealing with this election.
If nothing comes of his eligibility, so be it.
If I(we) fail to expose Obama, I will tact over to his socialist views of the world and beat him there in the general.
I think Hillary has a better chance to win than Obama.
Therefore, it would be against my 'interests' to see Obama disqualified.
However, to be true to myself, I will participate in making sure the constitution is followed regarding the most powerful office in the land, Obama or McCain.
If the same fate befalls McCain, so be it.
To be truthful, I can feel that way because McCain is not the guy I wanted to represent me anyway.
But when push comes to shove, I will NOT sit by and let the country slip further into the socialism rat hole.
Plus, I like my money. And facing a 30-35% tax increase with Obama at the helm is not appealing to me in the least.

Ditto.