Little Review on the service of Edge Racing converters...

[jdlmkviii]

I ordered my 3200 RPM stall converter today. I just wanted to say that I was real impressed with the service over the phone. I had a 20 minute talk with the guy just making sure he knew what it was that I wanted and what kind of performance gains I should expect. He said I should expect low 14's in the 1/4 with just the converter upgrade, gaurenteed. Full year warranty, 100% money back gaurentee. Thanks a lot unstoppable (chris?). I will make a follow-up to this post to let everyone know how it is when I finally get it on...


and P.S. it comes with a free T-shirt too! :Beer

 

[Katshot]

I'd be suspect of ANYONE that makes an ET guarantee like that. Have you ever taken your car to the track? Just so you know, low 14's aren't as easy as you might think. Are you able to break the tires loose from a dead start now? Do you have a posi rear?

 

[unstoppable]

No problem. I have seen great success with this company.I'm 100% sure I'll see a post in a while on how you are in love with your car all over again.

 

[jdlmkviii]

I'd be suspect of ANYONE that makes an ET guarantee like that. Have you ever taken your car to the track? Just so you know, low 14's aren't as easy as you might think. Are you able to break the tires loose from a dead start now? Do you have a posi rear?

the car is just about stock right now except for true duals(2.5" double X pipe), plugs/wires. No posi.... stock gears. And unfortunately, I haven't had the chance to take it to the track, but I think my car is capable of a 15.0 or so as is.

And if I happen to take it to the track and run like a 14.7 with the next couple upgrades, I won't really be disappointed.

 

[Katshot]

The point was that you should think about what mods you do, and in what order you do them. Example: If you can spin you "wheel" (notice I didn't say wheels) now, it will be worse after the higher stall speed converter. So what did you gain? NOTHING! All the power in the world is useless unless you can put it to the pavement. As long as you are traction-challenged, a higher stall speed converter is a waste if you're looking for better acceleration, especially from a stop.
So again, bottom line: I'm certainly not saying that a higher stall-speed converter is a waste in general, I'm just saying that in your situation it may be. At least unless you intend on substantially increasing your traction soon by installing a posi rear or increasing the amount of rubber on the drive axle substantially.

 

[jdlmkviii]

The point was that you should think about what mods you do, and in what order you do them. Example: If you can spin you "wheel" (notice I didn't say wheels) now, it will be worse after the higher stall speed converter. So what did you gain? NOTHING! All the power in the world is useless unless you can put it to the pavement. As long as you are traction-challenged, a higher stall speed converter is a waste if you're looking for better acceleration, especially from a stop.
So again, bottom line: I'm certainly not saying that a higher stall-speed converter is a waste in general, I'm just saying that in your situation it may be. At least unless you intend on substantially increasing your traction soon by installing a posi rear or increasing the amount of rubber on the drive axle substantially.

I see what you mean and it has crossed my mind... but basically my whole car is coming apart in about 2 weeks.... transmission swap, new fuel pump, new fuel pressure reg.... so while the whole transmission is out anyway, then why not? the transmission I'm gettin has a shift kit in it also, so I'm basically killing 4 birds with one stone, LOL. It's one less thing to worry about having to get down the road, and it's not like I'm at the drag strip every weekend either. and I'm also maybe looking at 4:10's with full posi and new driveshaft as soon as next spring.

 

[codewize]

I agree totally with Katshot. Back in my younger days I had a ragtop 67' Camaro. I blew up the stock 327 and couldn't find a 327 bock anywhere so I built a screaming 350. The engine was dynoed at 357 HP

The problem I had was no money to do the rear so the result was 1 wheel peal at the line. The car constantly ran mid 14's but really should have been a 13 or even a 12 second car.

 

[unstoppable]

The point was that you should think about what mods you do, and in what order you do them..

Who says he hasnt thought everything through?

Just because he went with a converter before gears and a posi doesnt mean he hasnt thought things through.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with doing a converter first.
Theres a whole lot more to gain froma converter change than just 1/4 mile performence.The car is a WHOLE lot more fun to drive first and foremost.

If what you say is true you could apply that same logic to adding gears."If you spin the tires with stock gears then you will only spin them worse with steeper gears" True and not true.Yes they might spin a little at initial hit but once traction is attained acceleration will be greater.



P.S. I'm glad your happy.Do me a favor though.Apply the brake and then the gas and see what it brake stalls at and then with your foot off the brake smash the gas and see what it flash stalls at.I'm very curious where the EDGE guys are at with that.Like how close are they to their advertised Stall rating.

 

[Katshot]

Who says he hasnt thought everything through?

Just because he went with a converter before gears and a posi doesnt mean he hasnt thought things through.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with doing a converter first.
Theres a whole lot more to gain froma converter change than just 1/4 mile performence.The car is a WHOLE lot more fun to drive first and foremost.

If what you say is true you could apply that same logic to adding gears."If you spin the tires with stock gears then you will only spin them worse with steeper gears" True and not true.Yes they might spin a little at initial hit but once traction is attained acceleration will be greater.


P.S. I'm glad your happy.Do me a favor though.Apply the brake and then the gas and see what it brake stalls at and then with your foot off the brake smash the gas and see what it flash stalls at.I'm very curious where the EDGE guys are at with that.Like how close are they to their advertised Stall rating.

I never said that "he specifically" hadn't thought it through, I was just making a general statement about something that I see happening a lot (especially to younger guys). Don't be so defensive. He also never mentioned that he was doing a complete trans build and was just "adding" the converter to the process. I took it from his original post that he was just doing a converter as a stand-alone mod. I would definately agree with doing it while the trans is out too.
And as for your statement:
"If what you say is true you could apply that same logic to adding gears."If you spin the tires with stock gears then you will only spin them worse with steeper gears" True and not true.Yes they might spin a little at initial hit but once traction is attained acceleration will be greater.
What do you mean by "true and not true"? There's nothing "not true" about that statement. You WILL increase your wheel spin, period. And considering that the start of virtually any drag race tends to be won or lost in the first 60', I have a hard time understanding your logic that the point is of little merit. I agree that shorter gearing will give you "some" improvement in overall acceleration, but unless it's a huge change in gearing, you probably won't net enough improvement to overcome the beating you'll take getting off the line.

 

[unstoppable]

With gears It just takes a good driver who can modulate the wheel spin.

A lot of people get into a race while already cruising down the street.And the car with the converter will flash stall to their true stall rating of the converter and be into their powerband sooner.Everything else being the same, the car with the converter will win everytime.
Not all races are from a dead dig.

And not everytime will it spin.If the track is prepped well then the car with the gears and converter will smoke the stock one everytime.If you think otherwise, I have a stock car with gears and a converter we can race. :N

Just playing, but I think you get my point.

 

[djKale]

I agree with you Chris about true, not true, and driver skill. That's why some people are running 2.1s and others are doing 2.3s all other factors being the same.

Kayshot - you can't assume that because your car will burn em off the line that it can't benefit from a converter change. Although, I can see the route that you are traveling down ends at a place called "tires".

You need some spin right off the line in order to get the car into it's power band. When the tires grab, the engine rpms drop. The trick is to put the car into it's range right as the tires are getting traction. This is where the converter comes in and this is where drag radials outshine conventional rubber. All you really are doing is maximizing the use of your power and traction. The converter and tires decrease the margin of driver error.

Kale

 

[1wykdmk8]

The reason he is going to install a convertor is because he has to swap out the tranny, and I suggested that since he 'planned' on installing one that THIS would be the perfect time to do so. So....he has thought it thru, and no sense in pulling the tranny more than once to install a torque convertor.

 

[jdlmkviii]

The reason he is going to install a convertor is because he has to swap out the tranny, and I suggested that since he 'planned' on installing one that THIS would be the perfect time to do so. So....he has thought it thru, and no sense in pulling the tranny more than once to install a torque convertor.

Yes! thank you!

and P.S. I'd like everyone to know and applaud Ray for willing to dedicate a lot of his time to help me do pretty much ALL of this (which is all goin down in about a week and a half), so thanks again Ray, I totally would not be where I am now if it wasn't for your help. :yourock:

 

[Katshot]

I agree with you Chris about true, not true, and driver skill. That's why some people are running 2.1s and others are doing 2.3s all other factors being the same.

Kayshot - you can't assume that because your car will burn em off the line that it can't benefit from a converter change. Although, I can see the route that you are traveling down ends at a place called "tires".

You need some spin right off the line in order to get the car into it's power band. When the tires grab, the engine rpms drop. The trick is to put the car into it's range right as the tires are getting traction. This is where the converter comes in and this is where drag radials outshine conventional rubber. All you really are doing is maximizing the use of your power and traction. The converter and tires decrease the margin of driver error.

Kale

Kale,
I think you're missing the point here. The statement was that "IF" the wheels are spining from a dead start now, the higher stall speed converter will only make it worse. That is a FACT, and that is all I was trying to say. Things have just gone out of control here from that point. And I did agree that he's doing the right thing by doing the converter since he's doing the trans anyway. Do people just like to argue around here or what?jdlmkviii understood what I was trying to say. And as for what you mentioned about needing some wheel spin to get the engine into it's powerband, isn't that the point of the higher stall speed converter? For the best 60' times, you need ZERO wheel spin. Of course in a street car, that's tough, I understand. I guess for now, I'll just drop it since it seems like we're beating a dead horse here.

 

[JoshMcMadMac]

Hey guys. I think katshot was doing what we all want to do: help. You don't know if jdlmkviii has thought it all through on this or not, so katshot just threw it out there. He has, so that is the important part. Now he just needs to learn how to launch that puppy!

 

[Jibit]

And not everytime will it spin.If the track is prepped well then the car with the gears and converter will smoke the stock one everytime.

Chris

To prove your point, when you were out here at Great Lakes,I think last year, I had a 3200 stall PI in my otherwise stock Gen2. It was 90 out and I had a crappy launch and reaction time and still pulled out a 14.9 in the quarter. Now, that's pretty impressive if you ask me considering the weather (and driver). What are Gen2's stock, 15.3?

 

[unstoppable]

Thanks for the back up.

Just cause I know, I know what I'm talking about, doesnt mean everyone does. :headbang:

 

[Jibit]

:headbang:

 

[Katshot]

Thanks for the back up.

Just cause I know, I know what I'm talking about, doesnt mean everyone does. :headbang:

Yeah, as long as YOU think you do, you're a legend in your own mind.

 

[unstoppable]

Yeah, as long as YOU think you do, you're a legend in your own mind.

Dude, you obviously dont know much about me.If you did you wouldnt be talking the shi t you have been.

I do happen to know a bit about these cars and what works and what doesnt.I spent the last 3 1/2 years running Lincoln Motorsport West where I worked on these cars day in and day out exclusively.

If you knew me you would also know that I am not conceded or " a legend in my own mind" as you put it.I'm just a guy who likes working on cars and helping people as much as I can.I've spent more hours on the phoe long distance helping people for free then I care to think about.
So you might want to start thinking your statements through a little better before you go spouting off.
Have a nice day.

 

[Jibit]

Yeah, as long as YOU think you do, you're a legend in your own mind.

Kevin, what's the deal here. We are just stating opinions and in my case I stated some real world experience as how a stock car reacts with a TC upgrade.

Chris is a great guy, as well as the rest of the guys at LMS. They have and always will be helpful. There's no need to be judging people.

It seems to me that most of what you're saying is based on theory, and as most know, theory is never 100% accurate. There is always exceptions to the rules.

I totally understand what your saying about putting the power to the ground and all but then again if a stock car had balled tires and one with a TC upgrade had drag radials had slicks, who "should" win.

There is too many variable that could affect the outcome. But like I said, my example shows that my time dropped signigicantly with a 3200 TC (with a stock rearend).

I'm not trying to say your wrong and he's right, I'm just stating the outcome of the evidence (I think I've been watching too much CSI!)

 

[JoshMcMadMac]

Come on, fellas! Forum = ask questions = get answers. All it takes is a slight misunderstanding of what point a person is trying to pass, and anyone can jump on that. Let's try to remember that we want to give something positive with everything we post when it comes to stuff like this. This includes advice, theory, experience, and opinions.

 

[unstoppable]

Come on, fellas! Forum = ask questions = get answers. All it takes is a slight misunderstanding of what point a person is trying to pass, and anyone can jump on that. Let's try to remember that we want to give something positive with everything we post when it comes to stuff like this. This includes advice, theory, experience, and opinions.

I totaly agree.I was only trying to help and now I have a stranger trying to make it seem like I'm an ego maniac or something.

 

[Katshot]

I totaly agree.I was only trying to help and now I have a stranger trying to make it seem like I'm an ego maniac or something.

What? You trying to say that you didn't say this:
"Just cause I know, I know what I'm talking about, doesnt mean everyone does."
Give me a break guys. I've got plenty of passes at the track over the last 30+ years, and well over 20 years in the automotive business. And I've spent the last couple years doing free tech help online so I think I'm fairly well versed on this stuff too. You guys (and some others around here) need to lighten up when making posts around here. I haven't been here long but it's sure easy to tell that a number of people here have a lot of opinions and not a lot of experience to back them up. If all you want to do is win arguments, go join a debating club but around here (and in other forums like this) it would be a lot more helpful to members if you read the posts completely and limited your comments to the actual questions or statements made. Fabricating "what-if" type scenarios just for the sake of proving your particular point of view isn't helpful and quite often only serves to confuse the issue and the person asking the original question or making the original comment.
I'm sure you're both great guys and probably mean well. I fully intended to just walk away from this thread (as you could tell by my lack of comments for a period) but, your last couple comments just struck me the wrong way. I'm trying to get along here but sometimes it's a little hard.

 

[JoshMcMadMac]

I was only trying to help and now I have a stranger trying to make it seem like I'm an ego maniac or something.

What? You trying to say that you didn't say this:
"Just cause I know, I know what I'm talking about, doesnt mean everyone does."

You two just made an excellent example of the degradation of communication. This is a prime way of showing that posts easily get misinterpreted and misconstrued. Can we please look at this as a learning/teaching experience for ourselves and others, shake hands, and call it a night?