Lincoln Sales

[BlackLS06]

No, WE'RE losing money. The US taxpayer is still a huge shareholder in GM. We're losing about 45,000 per car if I remember right. The shame of it is, if they ditched the thousand pound limited life battery pack and just made it a serial hybrid it would get much better mileage, perform a lot better and be a lot cheaper.

Why does every fuel efficient car have to be a pos 4 cyl that barely gets 40mpg highway when Europe has tons of diesel coupes and sedans?

They have a 300 that averages 29mpg. Highway I'm sure it gets close to 40mpg and that's a boat of a car.

I would love a powerstroke rwd V8 ford.

 

[chris2523]

Well, I guess eventually they'll catch up in about 10 years.

yeah. its still money lost and i'm doubting they will make the money back, but they aren't exactly losing money with every car purchase as some versions of the story might have you believe.

 

[LS4me]

The problem with diesel is the lack of infrastructure. We don't have near the refining ability as Europe.

 

[BlackLS06]

The problem with diesel is the lack of infrastructure. We don't have near the refining ability as Europe.

No way. Its the EPA showing hybrids down our throats. I can get diesel at any gas station around here. They know we can get 60mpg out a diesel engine in a sedan. But they wont do it.

Imagine a 3800 pound sedan with 400hp and 550ft/b of torque? A hell of a monster getting 4 cyl mileage.

 

[Telco]

I agree, I'd love to see more diesel cars too. And so far as the hybrids go, a direct inject turbodiesel would get us well over 100MPG.

 

[chris2523]

i think by infrastructure, he means overall refining capacity. not how many stations carry sell it.

you could have the best network to sell it, but its useless unless you can refine enough to meet demand. which would of course go up with more diesel cars.

 

[Telco]

That isn't an issue. Refineries can adjust what they pull out of a barrel of oil to a certain extent. Besides, not everyone will go to diesel and it will take time for everyone that want to to make the switch.

 

[LS4me]

No way. Its the EPA showing hybrids down our throats. I can get diesel at any gas station around here. They know we can get 60mpg out a diesel engine in a sedan. But they wont do it.

Imagine a 3800 pound sedan with 400hp and 550ft/b of torque? A hell of a monster getting 4 cyl mileage.

I don't mean gas stations. I mean the ability to produce enough diesel to meat demand. I remember diesel being very inexpensive until the explosion of diesel cars in the early 80s. The reason diesel is so high today is higher demand due to more diesel vehicles on the road. That the requirement for "clean" diesel. When was the last refinery built?

The "newest" refinery in the United States began operating in 2008 in Douglas, Wyoming. However, the newest significant (or sophisticated) refinery began operating in 1977 in Garyville, Louisiana.

There are "only" 144 refineries in the U.S.

Don't get me wrong. The 330D is very high on my next-purchase list.

 

[05 LS8]

I would prefer diesel cars as well over the stupid hybrids. The XFs in Europe get 60mpg and the 3.0 liters do 0-60 in 5.9 seconds......pretty damn good.

 

[SoonerLS]

I don't mean gas stations.

I think his point is not about gas stations; rather, it's that the Feds have heavily tilted the playing field in favor of electrified cars (be they hybrids, plug-in hybrids, or straight-up electric vehicles). The way the regs are set up, whether Ford's euro-diesels could meet the CAFE targets or not, it actually costs Ford less to develop and build electrified vehicles; as long as that situation exists, you won't see Ford pushing into passenger car diesels because there will be no business case to justify it.

 

[SoonerLS]

The XFs in Europe get 60mpg...

Those numbers are not particularly useful for comparing to American cars; the European test cycle differs significantly from the EPA test cycle. From Car & Driver:

One last fuel-economy tidbit: Don’t even think of comparing EPA figures with standardized fuel-economy tests from other countries because the test cycles are very different. For example, the European highway rating, called “extra urban,” is higher than the EPA’s by about 30 percent, so a rating on that cycle of, say, 60 mpg, would be closer to 40 in this country. The mainstream press, not realizing the difference, often complains that automakers refuse to bring efficient models here when, in fact, they may not be all that efficient when measured by U.S. standards.
-- http://www.caranddriver.com/feature...h-about-epa-city-highway-mpg-estimates-page-3

 

[BlackLS06]

And 40mpg in an XF is still better than all the wrong wheel drive hybrids.

 

[chris2523]

A 40 mpg XF with some punch would be awesome!

 

[pragmatic]

That isn't an issue. Refineries can adjust what they pull out of a barrel of oil to a certain extent. Besides, not everyone will go to diesel and it will take time for everyone that want to to make the switch.

Only so far. The reason diesel has been more expensive than gasoline the last several years is diesel demand in Europe. Refiners in the US export diesel to Europe and refiners in Europe export gasoline to the US.

As far as governments pushing hybrids, the only reason diesels are popular in Europe is the heavily favored tax treatment given to diesels. Diesel sales are much higher in countries the tax it favorably (Germany) and lower in contries that tax it the closer to the way they tax gasoline (Britain, Italy).

I was very much interested in diesel autos 10 or so years ago, but with gasoline use (as a percent of petroleum use) decreasing world wide I've changed my thoughts and now consider gasoline the way to go. With direct injection (allowing higher compression ratios) and turbocharging becoming more popular there is no reason to switch o diesel. A modern gasoline powerplant can give all of the fuel economy advantages of diesel with a lower energy cost.