lincoln ls battery

I have found an alternator rebuild shop by talking to the boat shops. Most alternators are used in auto & boat applications. I had mine rebuilt to the marine application, which is a significant power boost, same case, different guts. They can tell you if yours can be upgraded or swapped for a marine alternator in the size you require. Cheaper than buying a new one. They even identified the replacement belt and installed. Just a thought!

V6 or V8? Different cases and potentially different stators/rotors.
The problem with the V8 alt is that it was a unique application only used on the LS and Thunderbird. Actually, looks like the V6 was a unique application also, except they used the standard case. So I guess the regulator is unique to the LS. Hence all the problems with the aftermarket units.

Centason, good find on the chart.
 
You made me recheck, all is good, see pics below, I have it like the top right one in the picture directions

looks like your running the ground wrong if im correct

BATCAP DIRECTIONS.jpg


BATTERIES.jpg
 
V6 or V8? Different cases and potentially different stators/rotors.
The problem with the V8 alt is that it was a unique application only used on the LS and Thunderbird. Actually, looks like the V6 was a unique application also, except they used the standard case. So I guess the regulator is unique to the LS. Hence all the problems with the aftermarket units.

Centason, good find on the chart.

Forgive the question because it is truly out of my skill level. But, could an oem regulator theoretically be used in an aftermarket alternator so the higher amperage alternator be used? If not, I wonder what regulator could be used to fit our needs?

As I said, this question is out of comfort level so any "no's" are not going to be taken the wrong way.
 
Theoretically yes. You could use the regualtor and then have someone rebuild everything else to put out a higher amperage. But if the PCM reguates output, then something would be needed to fool the PCM, sort of like the resistors used in LED turn signals to make them blink correctly. Then everything would look fine to the PCM but you would be putting out more amps. THEORETICALLY, LOL!!!
 
Way too late. I have a new, never been used, DB 200 amp sitting in a box and an extra oem alternator beside it. This topic has always been the one that has bothered me more than any other. I truly want a correctly functioning HO Alternator on my car.
 
Actually all you would need is an alternator that's made for PCM controlled vehicles. I searched google and came up with tons of 6g alts that were PCM controlled. That solves the problem right there.
 
We have a 6g alternator. You just have to get one that's vehicle specific and made for PCM controlled cars like ours. All 6g stands for is 6th generation, has nothing to do with size, it's the housing that's vehicle specific. So you would need a PCM controlled HO alt for a Lincoln LS. Then the unit will bolt right up.
 
Typo....I meant to type 4.6L. But I hear what you are saying
 
Forgive the question because it is truly out of my skill level. But, could an oem regulator theoretically be used in an aftermarket alternator so the higher amperage alternator be used? If not, I wonder what regulator could be used to fit our needs?

The regulators control the output of the diodes. To get higher output, one uses a stator that has more windings, sometimes a rotor with more windings, and diodes that can handle higher currents.
With a simple control method, the regulator doesn't necessarily need to know too much about the parts - it's an immediate feed-back loop. The regulator controls the field current, which alters the field strength, which changes the output. Output voltage above the reference point? Lower the field current. Output voltage below the reference point? Raise the field current.
With the LS, the PCM is controlling the regulator. If the PCM doesn't understand that the performance parameters of the alternator have changed, then it can't control it properly. The PCM may be trying to do something witty, like estimating power loads instead of a straight voltage reference.
If you pair a larger stator/rotor with a stock regulator, the diodes can fry from the extra output.

Given what I've (and others) have seen from the DB alternators, my guess is that the modified alts need a higher field current at idle than the stock alternators. The LS PCM just isn't adapting to that change, resulting in the lowered output.

*note* this is from my experimentation and someone tenuous grasp of EE. I destroy a lot of parts before I get any circuit correct (see my fan controller thread...). Hopefully Joe can toss in his viewpoint and correct my mistakes.

For further reading, check out http://www.rowand.net/Shop/Tech/AlternatorGeneratorTheory.htm
That guy's pages are really good on a wide variety of topics.
Also, http://www.alternatorparts.com/understanding_alternators.htm has good diagrams and digs into the electrical aspects a bit more.


As to the other notes, I think the internals of the V8 regulator have the same physical dimensions as the typical 6G "small case". When you shop for those, the aftermarket doesn't like them. The small size limits output potential greatly. The 6G "large case" tend to go much higher.

So one experiment would be to find an aftermarket 6G small case high output alternator with PCM control, and swap the guts over the the LS case. That still assumes that all PCM control is created equal. And that some other manufacturer besides DB has gotten the PCM control correct at idle.

Here's a good description of the PCM control: http://www.napaechlin.com/Ford-PCM Controlled Charging System/Content.aspx - and a specific note is the PCM calculating load at idle and regulating the alt to the hairy edge. That reduces engine load giving a smoother idle. And if the alt performs exactly as the PCM expects, then you're fine. If it's modified and the PCM can't adapt, then, well, too bad.

Another option would be to put a traditional internal regulator into an HO alt. The PCM will probably throw codes when the alt apparently ignores its commands, though. The "alt load" wire is unique to PCM controlled regulators.
 
Ok, today is the day, took pics of the batteries. Dont mind the wiring, it is under the cover so I did not look to be show quality.

http://www.batcap.net/

Looks like you're missing an isolator between those two batteries...

You don't mess with the factory wires. You just add more wires for current to travel.

The big 3 is a replacement of the factory wires. I've done it before.



I'm not sure all of you understand the reason for having a 2nd battery. The battery is not to supply power once the car is running, it starts the car and then it filters the power the alternator is putting out. A 2nd battery is used in applications where you will be running the system with the car off for extended periods of time. The isolator prevents the system from using power from the main battery while the car is off. (It also prevents one battery from trying to charge the other)

A better use of your time and money is to find a compatible alternator (as its ultimately responsible for powering your system) and an upgrade of the big 3. Done properly, caps are nearly useless.

Also a "BATCAP" is a battery and capacitor all in the same casing... no difference. It's probably what that "powercell" is as well.
 
The big 3 is a replacement of the factory wires. I've done it before.

It can be done either way. You can replace the factory wires or run new wires alongside the factory ones.

I prefer to add on new wires as you are adding extra paths for current to travel versus just changing the gauge of the wires.

Also a "BATCAP" is a battery and capacitor all in the same casing... no difference. It's probably what that "powercell" is as well.

Several members here run Kinetic batteries as the single system battery and have had great results. The charging system is the LS is extremely complicated and as such we cant use any HO alt's as of now. I think i will run a kinetic once mine dies.
 
Well if you're doing the big 3 the right way, you wont have any way of connecting the factory wires still. But yes, more is typically better. Although on an LS, you will not need anymore than a 0 ga properly connected. You should be changing more than just the gauge. You should be changing the quality of the connections as well, as factory doesn't use the best method, they use the best for production.

I'm sure if I knew more about the charging system of the LS I could probably find a way around it, but at the moment I have no interest in upgrading the alt. Just curious, has anyone tried having an alternator built with an external regulator? I'm sure its not that easy though on this super computer controlled car.
 
Some companies offer external remote rectifiers but not regulators. That could be done custom I guess.
 
It's a bit old school, but it may solve the problem if there are no computer issues involved.
 
Well if you're doing the big 3 the right way, you wont have any way of connecting the factory wires still. But yes, more is typically better. Although on an LS, you will not need anymore than a 0 ga properly connected. You should be changing more than just the gauge. You should be changing the quality of the connections as well, as factory doesn't use the best method, they use the best for production.

Most guys ive talked to suggest you don't touch oem wiring and add more wires. Mostly in newer vehicles because the factory wires tie into the fuse boxes and power distribution boxes which the LS does have in the front and the rear.

Its better to have more paths for current to travel versus just a larger gauge. And i dont see how you could run the cables in a better method in the LS. The factory connections are actually very good. The factory wire appears to be at least 2 gauge. I havent peeled back the insulation but it has tons of strands like my 2 gauge amp wires.
 
The LS is a special case. It's nothing like the typical car. But 0 ga is always better than 2 or 4, and typically someone doing the big 3 will make better connections and use better battery terminals than factory. Again, the LS is a special case. I wouldn't do the big 3 simply for the fact of how complicated it would be. Of course I wouldn't install a kilowatt+ system in my LS either.
 
Theoretically yes. You could use the regualtor and then have someone rebuild everything else to put out a higher amperage. But if the PCM reguates output, then something would be needed to fool the PCM, sort of like the resistors used in LED turn signals to make them blink correctly. Then everything would look fine to the PCM but you would be putting out more amps. THEORETICALLY, LOL!!!

so its not worth it?
 
I know there is a place in my town that will use your stock alternator housing and just beef it up as high as you'd like...1 dollar a amp.
 
I know there is a place in my town that will use your stock alternator housing and just beef it up as high as you'd like...1 dollar a amp.

Yes, but will they reprogram your PCM so that it can correctly control the beefed up alternator?
 

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