Lincoln LS and aging

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tireman

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Went to the Italian Car show down here in Norcross Ga this weekend. There were lots of Ferrari's, Pantera's, Maserati's, Alpha Romeo's, beautiful sexy cars, some over 60 years old, looking like new. I go to lots on hot rod shows too. Cars from the 40's -70's. So what does this tell you? Cars last if taken care of. Keep em clean and maintained, they will last a lifetime. Run the crap out of them and they die. I owned many 60's cars that now are bringing top dollars at shows in average condition. Wish I would have just kept them. But life happens and we change. If you love that LS, then keep it going, it's cheaper than buying a new car and someday if lucky we can sell it at a premium! :eek:
 
Older cars last longer because they were better built. Everything now is plastic.

There should be no plastic in the engine bay, besides the plastic covering hoses and wires or the reservoir tanks.
 
tireman said:
... If you love that LS, then keep it going, it's cheaper than buying a new car and someday if lucky we can sell it at a premium! :eek:
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I had a plan to keep the LS(es) longer than any other car I've had (longest was about 18 years). I now realize that plan is impractical/impossible. There are more and more LS only parts that are no longer made. Junkyard parts will work for parts that are just wear issues, but they won't work for the plastic items that are aging issues.
I'll hold in there for as long as it is practical, but I won't go to extreme measures.

The BMW 325i that I got for my daughter has even more problems with failures of plastic parts, but at least they are all available and cheap. This is the advantage of having a car that they made many similar models of and they all total into the millions. This means there are multiple suppliers for most of the parts. I could probably keep it going for a very long time (not 60 years). It's a shame that I don't like it nearly as much as the LS.
 
actually that's partly true

Our cars are better today. We have rust proofing the metal, better paints, clear coats, hard plastics have a 100 year life span. Rubber products last longer too.
However, the engine heat kills rubber and plastics. Moving parts all wear out over time. My 60's cars never lasted past 100k miles. You needed to carry oil, water, and tools in the trunk, and duck tape, don't forget the duck tape for blown water hoses!. How many people carry tools in their cars these days? I can't say the old cars were better.
 
I had two 325i's

Those BMW 325i's are fun but not as much slick as the LS. I need the luxury!
 
joegr said:
I had a plan to keep the LS(es) longer than any other car I've had (longest was about 18 years). I now realize that plan is impractical/impossible. There are more and more LS only parts that are no longer made. Junkyard parts will work for parts that are just wear issues, but they won't work for the plastic items that are aging issues.
I'll hold in there for as long as it is practical, but I won't go to extreme measures.

The BMW 325i that I got for my daughter has even more problems with failures of plastic parts, but at least they are all available and cheap. This is the advantage of having a car that they made many similar models of and they all total into the millions. This means there are multiple suppliers for most of the parts. I could probably keep it going for a very long time (not 60 years). It's a shame that I don't like it nearly as much as the LS.
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My mom had a 325i and it drove amazing. Like floating on a cloud. But when something went wrong, it WAS NOT cheap. I LOVE BMW's more than almost any other car company, but as far as long term? No way. You get a new one every 4 years or you're bound to run into costly problems.

My LS has 177k miles and although has it's fair share of issues here and there that cost a few hundred here and there, I love it! I plan to keep it and have fun with it even after buying another car.
 
joegr said:
The BMW 325i that I got for my daughter has even more problems with failures of plastic parts, but at least they are all available and cheap. This is the advantage of having a car that they made many similar models of and they all total into the millions. This means there are multiple suppliers for most of the parts. I could probably keep it going for a very long time (not 60 years). It's a shame that I don't like it nearly as much as the LS.
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From looking around online, modern BMW's have a very similar cooling system to the LS that they recommend you replace every 70K miles or so. This might explain why many of them with that mileage can be found used for cheap.

Would be a good idea to buy a complete set of everything that breaks down with the LS, and keep it in storage for when it needs to be replaced again.

At least the transmission is a common model used in many fords. And some of the s-type parts can be used as well. The S-type had a slightly longer production run.

tireman said:
Our cars are better today. We have rust proofing the metal, better paints, clear coats, hard plastics have a 100 year life span. Rubber products last longer too.
However, the engine heat kills rubber and plastics. Moving parts all wear out over time. My 60's cars never lasted past 100k miles. You needed to carry oil, water, and tools in the trunk, and duck tape, don't forget the duck tape for blown water hoses!. How many people carry tools in their cars these days? I can't say the old cars were better.
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Most things are better today, but they need to use less plastic and more metal around the engine. Heat makes plastic crumble as all of us LS owners know. Plastic valve covers are a joke. And plastic cooling parts passing hot engine coolant surrounded by 200 degree engine temps is also a joke.
 
BlackLS06 said:
...Most things are better today, but they need to use less plastic and more metal around the engine. Heat makes plastic crumble as all of us LS owners know. Plastic valve covers are a joke. And plastic cooling parts passing hot engine coolant surrounded by 200 degree engine temps is also a joke.
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BMW is now using plastic oil pans on some models.
 
Cars like BMW's are cars that you replace every few years. American made cars will last if taken care of. If you don't take care of them, they go on you. That goes for all cars.

Example, my aunt had a 2007 Mustang. She didn't take very good care of it. At 100k miles, she was driving and the engine caught on fire and the front end of the car was no more. The key is proper maintenance on these LS', I'd say
 
dunndarryn said:
Cars like BMW's are cars that you replace every few years. American made cars will last if taken care of. If you don't take care of them, they go on you. That goes for all cars.

Example, my aunt had a 2007 Mustang. She didn't take very good care of it. At 100k miles, she was driving and the engine caught on fire and the front end of the car was no more. The key is proper maintenance on these LS', I'd say
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I agree, but it's hard to do proper maintenance if you can't get parts for it.
 
dunndarryn said:
Cars like BMW's are cars that you replace every few years. American made cars will last if taken care of. If you don't take care of them, they go on you. That goes for all cars.

Example, my aunt had a 2007 Mustang. She didn't take very good care of it. At 100k miles, she was driving and the engine caught on fire and the front end of the car was no more. The key is proper maintenance on these LS', I'd say
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And that's the problem with the LS...alot of it is Jaguar. When you buy a motorcraft serpentine replacement, it says jaguar on it. The engine is jaguar, suspension parts are stamped jag as well.
 
Plastics not a bad thing. I mean, it doesn't rust. And mostly will out last the whole car.

But about the Jaguar comment, doesn't it look good on the LS its using British technology? I mean, Jaguar is known for making seriously nice rides.

Imagine buying a dodge charger, and most parts say "Ferrari". I would think that would be a plus side.

I dunno maybe I dont understand how the market of classic cars works..
 
Plastic is very bad under the hood for engine components. Just wait until its time to replace your entire cooling system. Time consuming and expensive especially with the first gen's hydraulic fan.

Its not about looking good. Its about parts availability and reliability.

Jags have never been known to be very reliable.The current ones are the best ones yet to date.
 
lincoln_zero said:
Plastics not a bad thing. I mean, it doesn't rust. And mostly will out last the whole car.

But about the Jaguar comment, doesn't it look good on the LS its using British technology? I mean, Jaguar is known for making seriously nice rides.

Imagine buying a dodge charger, and most parts say "Ferrari". I would think that would be a plus side.

I dunno maybe I dont understand how the market of classic cars works..
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That is until your "Dodge Charger" needs 15 thousand in repairs and only has 20k miles on it..
 
tireman said:
our cars are better today. We have rust proofing the metal, better paints, clear coats, hard plastics have a 100 year life span. Rubber products last longer too.
However, the engine heat kills rubber and plastics. Moving parts all wear out over time. My 60's cars never lasted past 100k miles. You needed to carry oil, water, and tools in the trunk, and duck tape, don't forget the duck tape for blown water hoses!. How many people carry tools in their cars these days? I can't say the old cars were better.
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+1000000000
 
lincoln_zero said:
Plastics not a bad thing. I mean, it doesn't rust. And mostly will out last the whole car.
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last i checked, aluminum will always outlast plastic without rusting, aluminum will also never get brittle and just crumble in under 100k miles.

there is only one upside to using plastic parts, and that is cost (for the manufacture) plastic fades over time, plastic get brittle over time. and every day i see first hand at work how plastic will definitely not out last the car.

tons of cars that come into my shop that are over 10 years old have tons of little stupid sh!t broken, door handles, window cranks, seat levers, hood poppers, trunk levers, dash trim pieces, window switches...

ever take the dash apart in a 10 year old miata? all of the dash panels will basically crumble in your hands.

lets look at just the LS for example,

degas bottle (doesn't out last the car),

all of the plastic cooling parts (doesn't out last the car),

all the little plastic push pins under the hood (doesn't out last the car)

the locking clips on the coil harnesses (doesn't out last the car)



of course the heat weaken the plastic right, parts made of plastic not subjected to under hood temps much fair much better right?


when the window regulator breaks, what part is it that always breaks??? thats right, the plastic parts (doesn't out last the car)

how about any, no wait, how about every button on the dash or center console (message center buttons, traction control, parking brake...) (doesn't out last the car)

the latch that doesn't hold my center console lid down anymore (doesn't out last the car)

does anything say classy like wood grain looking plastic panels??



so I'm sorry, could you please explain to me why you think plastic parts are so great other than by using them, it brings the price of the car down? because to me, it seems like a lot of our problems are due to these plastic parts you so love.
 
tireman said:
Our cars are better today. We have rust proofing the metal, better paints, clear coats, hard plastics have a 100 year life span. Rubber products last longer too.
However, the engine heat kills rubber and plastics. Moving parts all wear out over time. My 60's cars never lasted past 100k miles. You needed to carry oil, water, and tools in the trunk, and duck tape, don't forget the duck tape for blown water hoses!. How many people carry tools in their cars these days? I can't say the old cars were better.
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Solid, solid point.

I carry jumper cables. But that's not for me, its for when my family calls me up and is stranded because they left their lights on -_-

Cars today even have more crumple zones for safety. Their reliable to get you home.
I remember my moms old 81 Camaro. She had to have Bricks in the trunk (additional weight on the rear tires) in the winters to get some traction.
Which I have to say, the nice thing about having Big subs in my trunk, is the better traction I get in the snow.
 
1LoudLS said:
last i checked, aluminum will always outlast plastic without rusting, aluminum will also never get brittle and just crumble in under 100k miles.

there is only one upside to using plastic parts, and that is cost (for the manufacture) plastic fades over time, plastic get brittle over time. and every day i see first hand at work how plastic will definitely not out last the car.

tons of cars that come into my shop that are over 10 years old have tons of little stupid sh!t broken, door handles, window cranks, seat levers, hood poppers, trunk levers, dash trim pieces, window switches...

ever take the dash apart in a 10 year old miata? all of the dash panels will basically crumble in your hands.

lets look at just the LS for example,

degas bottle (doesn't out last the car),

all of the plastic cooling parts (doesn't out last the car),

all the little plastic push pins under the hood (doesn't out last the car)

the locking clips on the coil harnesses (doesn't out last the car)



of course the heat weaken the plastic right, parts made of plastic not subjected to under hood temps much fair much better right?


when the window regulator breaks, what part is it that always breaks??? thats right, the plastic parts (doesn't out last the car)

how about any, no wait, how about every button on the dash or center console (message center buttons, traction control, parking brake...) (doesn't out last the car)

the latch that doesn't hold my center console lid down anymore (doesn't out last the car)

does anything say classy like wood grain looking plastic panels??



so I'm sorry, could you please explain to me why you think plastic parts are so great other than by using them, it brings the price of the car down? because to me, it seems like a lot of our problems are due to these plastic parts you so love.
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I don't have ANY of those issues. Sitting on 10 years and 260,000 Kilometers....... (my 2002)

-My 2001 Expedition eddie bauer that has 258,000 Kms (Its sold now) has Zero failures...(11 years old)

-My wifes 1993 Honda Accord ex that I sold for $700 one year ago had no plastic part failures. (19 years old) Just engine troubles. And that car was ALL plastic

-My Aunts 2000 Lincoln LS that I traded in, Had none either. (12 years old)

-My degas bottle looks fine... so far... But maybe these things are a cheaper grade of plastic?

-When my rear window failed, It was the metal wire. It snapped o_O I kid you not... Dont know how that happened. Plastics were fine.

So its not that I love plastic, its that plastic has Grades. Plastic can be made vulnerable, and can be made to last 100 years. Blame the manufacturer of the degas bottle, not Ford for using plastic.

And btw, my friend drove a 2001 Saturn. Everything plastic on that Totally broke. So, ive seen THAT happen yes. But it was cheap grades of plastic. Total garbage.
 
You live in Canada.

It doesn't get hot enough there. We are talking about heat, and all LS's exposed to the southern heat in the states will have plastics fail. The plastic needs to be able to withstand it. Other cars ive driven have never had any parts of the cooling system replaced including the bottle. Im already on my 2nd bottle at less than 80K miles.
 
OK, So I sort of live in ignorance in a way. Maybe then 1LoudLS should move to colorado? hahaha Would solve his plastic issues for sure!

We see up to 36 Celsius in Toronto, which is 96.8 Fahrenheit. Still pretty hot, but thats only over 1 - 2 months of the year.

However, I now have a question:

We see -21 Celsius (-5 Fahrenheit) in Toronto. And driving in traffic for hours, the plastic in the engine bay goes from colds of -5 fahrenheit, to + 90 fahrenheit in an hour. then you park, and it cools back down to -5 fahrenheit

wouldn't going from one extreme temp to another cause major fractures on the plastic? I'm prolly very wrong, but I would think we have it worse in Canada because of the extreme temperature variations the vehicle sees from cold start up in freezing temps, to scorching heat while operating, then cooling back down to freezing? Wouldn't These extreme temperatures warp the plastic, and cause it to be more fragile, thus making it worse conditions than 1 steady hot climate?
 
96 degrees is not scorching heat.

Try 90+ days of constant 102-110 degrees everyday. And are you the original owner?? And it can get down to 15 degrees here so pretty damn cold. And we also see the heat for much longer.

Last December it was in the low 90's here.
 
My general experience with interior plastic parts is that they are usually okay until you have to mess with them. As soon as you have to remove some trim, the plastic parts that hold it on will crack apart, if it's a few years old.
Of course, I didn't have to mess with the message center buttons, the e-brake button, the AdvanceTrac button, window regulator, or the center console lid to have parts of them break. The interior plastic clips on the BWM are breaking apart too. Most people buy them by the bag or box.
 
i guess we'll just have to wait around a good 20-40 years and see how well all these LS's hold up over time like the cars of old.

I'm not saying that plastic doesn't have its place, but for me personally, I wish they would keep the Tupperware in the kitchen where it belongs.
 
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