Knocking and Squeaking

9enisP

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I was mashing on my LS pretty hard while racing (f'in around) with a buddy on the interstate. :rolleyes: We were going back and forth for a little while, and I red lined quite a few times (its an automatic, so it shouldn't have gone further). When I got home I noticed that my engine was knocking. I turned it off and let it sit, thinking it would go away after it cooled down. The knocking hasn't gone away and it sounds worse. There is also some squeaking when it idles. :( I'm afraid to drive it. I was just wondering if any of you guys had an idea of what it might be before I took it to the dealership. If there's any more info you need, just let me know. I'm willing to try just about anything to troubleshoot. Thanks.
 
brentalan said:
How is the oil level?

Just checked. :mad: Damn. Its at the MIN level but not below. Thats bad but I'm not sure if it would've caused this this much knocking and squeaking. What do you think? Also, sometimes when I start it, the knocking is really loud right when its starting. I'm going to go grab some oil. Any more ideas?
 
oil at min is fine. You could have a clogged oil filter but it sounds like you have a real issue. I would suggest taking it in asap. the "squeaking" is it a belt?
 
beaups said:
oil at min is fine. You could have a clogged oil filter but it sounds like you have a real issue. I would suggest taking it in asap. the "squeaking" is it a belt?

I'm almost positive its not a belt. I can't be 100% sure though. Man, I wish it was a belt, but it just sounds bit more mechanically squeaky. As if a pulley was sqeaking or something. ...this sucks.
 
The high revs probably sucked a valve down and bent the valvestem or the cam. New engines for the LS cost several thousand dollars. :eek:
 
ToddG said:
The high revs probably sucked a valve down and bent the valvestem or the cam. New engines for the LS cost several thousand dollars. :eek:

If that is indeed what happened, wouldn't it be possible to replace the valve and stem, as long as it hasn't done a whole lot of damage? If so, do any of you know how much I'm looking to spend in parts and labor? I'm having it towed to the nearest FLM today. Thanks for all the help.
 
9enisP said:
If that is indeed what happened, wouldn't it be possible to replace the valve and stem, as long as it hasn't done a whole lot of damage? If so, do any of you know how much I'm looking to spend in parts and labor? I'm having it towed to the nearest FLM today. Thanks for all the help.

That isn't what happened. Valves can't be "sucked down". You can drop a valve...from broken parts...which usually ends in a broken piston. You can break a valve spring, possibly even bend a valve...but you would have a noticable miss if you did. You can float a valve...which is from the valve springs not being strong enough to close the valve at high rpm's...but I haven't heard of that happening on these cars...especially with an rpm limiter. If the knock is high in the motor, suspect something like that...but quite honestly, an OHC engine has a pretty reliable valve train. I would suspect lower end damage.

Does it sound like a bearing squeak?
 
2001LS8Sport said:
That isn't what happened. Valves can't be "sucked down". You can drop a valve...from broken parts...which usually ends in a broken piston. You can break a valve spring, possibly even bend a valve...but you would have a noticable miss if you did. You can float a valve...which is from the valve springs not being strong enough to close the valve at high rpm's...but I haven't heard of that happening on these cars...especially with an rpm limiter. If the knock is high in the motor, suspect something like that...but quite honestly, an OHC engine has a pretty reliable valve train. I would suspect lower end damage.

Does it sound like a bearing squeak?

I'm not quite sure what a bearing sqeak would sound like. I can say that the squeaking is kinda irregular. It doesn't have a steady rhythm like the knocking. I also think its worse and/or louder when its idling.
 
Yeah redlines are there for a reason. YOu can bump it once in a great while and on some cars it's no big deal. But apparently the LS is a tad touchy. I am of the opinion this engine is just too small and overworked, but then I am one of those old American iron Big V8 lovers. Have a nice 460 right now, gulping down 11mpg, owwww.

Keep this in mind. I. E. my experience is with old tech V8s using cam in block designs. I haven't ever had a really big problem with DOHC type engines since I was older and less inclinde to mash it by the time they became common. So I may not know what the heck I am talking about in the following.

Anyway. When you hit redline many different things may happen. The most common problem is that the valves will float. I think this is still possible with DOHC engines. Or in extreme cases the piston rods will stretch just enough. When this happens the valve may kiss the piston and depending on how much interference there is, it will either bend the valve, break the rockers, break the cam etc. Usually just a bent valve, which does need to be replaced before you drive it much longer.

Occasionally, usually on an old loose engine, you might over stress the piston rods and either break it, which is obvious, or you might damage the bearings, which is less obvious but may cause some knocking. I suppose the bearing might squeek but I have never had one do that(even with severe bearing damage), but I have only played with maybe 20 engines in my lifetime.

I am guessing the squeek is something from the belt drives and probably just something you noticed because now you are paranoid.

Other possiblities are some knocking from the tranny due to some damage which I am almost totally unqualified to talk about. Or possibly one of the components on the belts is knocking. Some AC compressors have a redline too, and when you exceed it it can be damaged. To check for problems with things like AC, alternator, powersteering, just remoive the belt and run the engine. If the noise goes away, then it isn't the engine and lucky you.


By the way, oil at min is not always the best thing when mashing it. At high RPMs, sometimes the oil is all in the top of the engine and none of it is getting to the crank bearings. If you lose the oil pressure due to sucking air at high RPM, you can quickly damage a bearing. I forget the calculations but the guys on the SHO website have a good tech article about oil starvation at high RPM. Like I said, essentially the oil pump pumps all the oil up to the top of the engine at high RPM and because it takes time for the oil to get back to the pan, sometimes the engine will suck air. Low Oil level just makes this happen sooner. Hope this ain't your problem.

Good Luck, this is one of those lessons from the school of hard KNOCKS, like you got, sorry for the pun.

Jim Henderson
 
Well, I just dropped her off at the dealership.:( They should be giving me a call in a few hours. I'll post their findings and let you guys know how much its going to cost me. Thanks for the help.
 
my vote is in for a bad accessory (a/c, power steering, etc.) with a failing bearing causing the squeek and causing too much load at idle creating the engine knock. I had a pretty bad engine knock at idle that went away when I replaced the tranny so I think these motors are very sensitive to load @ idle.
 
OK. Well I got the horrible, horrible news back and I need another opinion. The dealership said they are pretty sure that I threw a rod! :eek2: Its going to be $5700 to install a new engine! :q:q:q:q me in the goat ass! I heard the knocking when I got home and I haven't driven it since, but every time I've started it since then (only a couple times), the sound has gotten worse. I'm definitely not an expert or anywhere close to it, but when I threw a rod in '95 Blazer, IT WAS DONE. No knocking, no squeaking, just a quick loud noise and I was on the side of the road. What do you guys think? The dealership hasn't torn into the engine yet so they can't be 100% sure. I just didn't think it was possible to drive a car home after it threw a rod. My friend thinks it sounds more like a lower rod bearing that spun. IDK.
 
I don't think it is a thrown rod, i threw a rod in a 94 mazda i owned and that motor stopped on the spot it just might be a spun lower rod bearing but the only way to tell is to remove the oil pan and see.
 
sounds like it's time for a second opinion. for what it's worth you can get a low mileage used motor for well under $1500 off ebay or car-part.com. I think book quotes 15 hours to do a swap. So I'm thinking you could be all set for under $2500 if it really needs a motor.

I would get a second opinion.
 
beaups said:
sounds like it's time for a second opinion. for what it's worth you can get a low mileage used motor for well under $1500 off ebay or car-part.com. I think book quotes 15 hours to do a swap. So I'm thinking you could be all set for under $2500 if it really needs a motor.

I would get a second opinion.
:I
 
OK. OK. I called the dealership back and spoke to the actual technician that took a look at my car. He said that I didn't throw a rod, but it did sound like I spun a lower rod bearing. My friend's dad owns a Hot Rod shop and has quite a few connections. He's calling a ford guy he know's to see what it would take to replace the rods, bearing, shaft, etc. We'll see how that goes. Meanwhile, I'll be looking at ebay and car-part.com for another engine. I can't fork out $5700, but I may be able to pinch it for a while and get $2500. If anyone knows somewhere else I can get a motor, or anything that could help my situation, I'm all ears. I appreciate it.

Also, When I'm looking for an engine, does it have to be exactly the same 2001 V6 Automatic it had in it? Or are there other years/versions (v8?) that would work. Keep in mind, I don't have the money to be "making it fit". But if all i need are motor mounts...
Anybody got an interchange manual?
 
You have a V6??!!, That may be good news since I think the V6 is a more common Ford engine, I think one of the Duratec series. I could be wrong. I think the V8 would really cost you a bundle so being a V6 might be some good news.

As far as changing to a V8, I think it may be more bother and time than it would be worth to you.

Yeah probably a spun or damaged bearing. When a rod breaks the noise it very noticable, explosion like, and you usually do sieze up.

Good Luck,

Jim Henderson
 
Knocked a belt loose? Pulley semi-seized? Is that even possible?
 
OUCH! Look/call around though, the "stealer" is gonna do just that from you... find a good used one even if it takes a few weeks.

It will save you a bundle of $$$..

Bozz
 
I've found an engine with 22k for $1885 shipped and my friend's dad said he'd swap them for $1000 maybe less. My original engine had 56k. I've seen some others with around 40k for ~$1600. This is definitely the cheaper route. Thanks. Do these prices sound good to ya'll? Is there anything I need to watch out for when shopping around for used motors? I'm making sure that they're guaranteed.
 
BRAND NEW lincoln LS v6 engine 1440 shipped, with all new accessories, pumps, alternator, etc. already installed. Ready to drop into car. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BRAN...33615QQitemZ8075702439QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

If anyone else is interested I have a connection with someone to some brand new fully dressed lincoln LS v8 3.9 motors, He wanted like under 1500, I was seriously thinking about picking one up as a spare. He was selling like 5 of them on pallets on an old forum I used to be on about a year ago. He's a trusted long term member, ford parts guy. I think he had 2 left last i checked.
 
Cruznlife1 said:
BRAND NEW lincoln LS v6 engine 1440 shipped, with all new accessories, pumps, alternator, etc. already installed. Ready to drop into car. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BRAN...33615QQitemZ8075702439QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

If anyone else is interested I have a connection with someone to some brand new fully dressed lincoln LS v8 3.9 motors, He wanted like under 1500, I was seriously thinking about picking one up as a spare. He was selling like 5 of them on pallets on an old forum I used to be on about a year ago. He's a trusted long term member, ford parts guy. I think he had 2 left last i checked.

Hey thanks, but i was told that the 2001 v6 was unique and needed to be replaced by a 2001 v6. I'm not sure I could use that 2002 engine. I haven't seen an interchange manual so I can't be positive. Does anyone know?
 

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