Kerry: Draft Likely To Return Under Bush

MonsterMark

Dedicated LVC Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2004
Messages
9,225
Reaction score
3
Location
United States
Here is how the liberal Mainstream Media works.



The A.P. posts this headline...Kerry Says Draft May Return Under Bush



But here is what Kerry says.

Kerry said he would not bring back the draft and questioned how fairly it was administered in the past.

Answering a question about the draft that had been posed at a forum with voters, Kerry said: "If George Bush were to be re-elected, given the way he has gone about this war and given his avoidance of responsibility in North Korea and Iran and other places, is it possible? I can't tell you."

How that comment turns into; Kerry says Bush may bring back the draft, is beyond me. The A.P. is the next "Old Media", that needs to slash its own throat. It has been doing this for decades and needs to be discredited.

But what this article really meant to say is:
Under a President Kerry, the military will have a hard time finding volunteers to serve under a commander-in-chief who is a self-proclaimed traitor and an extreme vasilator. Troop moral will hit an all-time low and recruitment will be next to impossible. So the draft will be inevitable under a President Kerry.
 
"But what this article really meant to say is:
Under a President Kerry, the military will have a hard time finding volunteers to serve under a commander-in-chief who is a self-proclaimed traitor and an extreme vasilator. Troop moral will hit an all-time low and recruitment will be next to impossible. So the draft will be inevitable under a President Kerry."

Kerry is not the only member of the military. If the Commander in Chief is the sole mobilizing force for our army, Bush would be just as depressing. There are plenty more members of the armed forces to motivate its people.

As far as kerry needing a draft anyway, i dont think he has plans to start new wars we cannot finish. You are assuming we are going to be constantly at war in the future. Armed forces are for defense, not world takeover.
 
It is interesting, though, in a search of government legislative proposals, the only thing I can find on the draft is authored by the Democrats. I guess they are already hinting that they will need a draft if Kerry is elected. I'll have to give my sons the bad news. They won't have a choice under Kerry to serve their country voluntarily.
 
MonsterMark said:
It is interesting, though, in a search of government legislative proposals, the only thing I can find on the draft is authored by the Democrats. I guess they are already hinting that they will need a draft if Kerry is elected. I'll have to give my sons the bad news. They won't have a choice under Kerry to serve their country voluntarily.

Yea guess there stuck, cause Bush with his lets goto war without significant other countries involved, he will be using the draft im sure.
 
Bush won't be instituting a draft under the current circumstances. Saying he will is just scare tactics. Speaking from experience, the Commander in Chief very much has a lot to do with troop morale. And talking with a lot of my buds in the military, Bush is a huge source of morale. Look at the reception Bush got at that military convention last week (roaring) and Kerry's reception at that same convention (subdued, with many walking out the more he spoke). It's not only proven that Bush has a huge advantage when it comes to our fighting men and women, it's common knowledge by ALL in the media and around the country.
 
Punisher said:
Yea guess there stuck, cause Bush with his lets goto war without significant other countries involved, he will be using the draft im sure.
I borrowed this from my post on the Bush documents thread.

Here is a choice one from the USA Today today.
The Associated Press: HEADLINE... Kerry hints that draft could return if Bush re-elected.
The article goes on rambling about the draft for 3 paragraphs, but this line is the best. "There is a House proposal to bring back the draft, but it is a Democratic one." Funny, I just read the headline and it said Bush was going to do this. I guess liberals make headlines to sway public opinion but then sometimes have to bury the truth deep within the article.
 
US Preparing for Military Draft in Spring 2005
by Adam Stutz ? Wednesday January 28, 2004 at 09:50 AM

The current agenda of the US federal government is to reinstate the draft in order to staff up for a protracted war on "terrorism." Pending legislation in the House and Senate (twin bills S 89 and HR 163) would time the program so the draft could begin at early as Spring 2005 -- conveniently just after the 2004 presidential election!

Reinstatement of the draft

Dear Friends and Family,

I urge you to read the article below on the current agenda of the federal government to reinstate the draft in order to staff up for a protracted war on "terrorism."

Pending legislation in the House and Senate (twin bills S 89 and HR 163) would time the program so the draft could begin at early as Spring 2005 -- conveniently just after the 2004 presidential election! But the administration is quietly trying to get these bills passed NOW, so our action is needed immediately. Details and links follow.

If voters who currently support U.S. aggression abroad were confronted with the possibility that their own children or grandchildren might not have a say about whether to fight, many of these same voters might have a change of mind. (Not that it should make a difference, but this plan would among other things eliminate higher education as a shelter and would not exclude women -- and Canada is no longer an option.)

Please send this on to all the parents and teachers you know, and all the aunts and uncles, grandparents, godparents.... And let your children know -- it's their future, and they can be a powerful voice for change! Please also write to your representatives to ask them why they aren't telling their constituents about these bills -- and write to newspapers and other media outlets to ask them why they're not covering this important story.

The Draft*

$28 million has been added to the 2004 Selective Service System (SSS) budget to prepare for a military draft that could start as early as June 15, 2005. SSS must report to Bush on March 31, 2005 that the system, which has lain dormant for decades, is ready for activation. Please see website: http://www.sss.gov/perfplan_fy2004.html to view the SSS Annual Performance Plan - Fiscal Year 2004.

The Pentagon has quietly begun a public campaign to fill all 10,350 draft board positions and 11,070 appeals board slots nationwide.. Though this is an unpopular election year topic, military experts and influential members of Congress are suggesting that if Rumsfeld's prediction of a "long, hard slog" in Iraq and Afghanistan [and a permanent state of war on "terrorism"] proves accurate, the U.S. may have no choice but to draft.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5146.htm

Congress brought twin bills, S. 89 and H.R. 163 forward this year, entitled the Universal National Service Act of 2003, "To provide for the common defense by requiring that all young persons [age 18--26] in the United States, including women, perform a period of military service or a period of civilian service in furtherance of the national defense and homeland security, and for other purposes." These active bills currently sit in the Committee on Armed Services.

Dodging the draft will be more difficult than those from the Vietnam era remember. College and Canada will not be options. In December 2001, Canada and the US signed a "Smart Border Declaration," which could be used to keep would-be draft dodgers in. Signed by Canada's Minister of Foreign Affairs, John Manley, and US Homeland Security Director, Gov. Tom Ridge, the declaration involves a 30-point plan which implements, among other things, a "pre-clearance agreement" of people entering and departing each country. Reforms aimed at making the draft more equitable along gender and class lines also eliminates higher education as a shelter. Underclassmen would only be able to postpone service until the end of their cur-rent semester. Seniors would have until the end of the academic year.
 
SALON, November 3, 2003
Title: "Oiling up the Draft Machine?"
Author: Dave Lindorff

BUZZFLASH.COM, November 11, 2003
Title: "Would a Second Bush Term Mean a Return to Conscription?'
Author: Maureen Farrell

WAR TIMES, October-November, 2003
Title: "Military Targets Latino Youth"
Author: Jorge Mariscal

Evaluator: Robert Manning
Student Researchers: Jenifer Green, Adam Stutz

The Selective Service System, the Bush Administration, and the Pentagon have been quietly moving to fill draft board vacancies nationwide in order to prepare for a military draft that could start as early as June 15, 2005. In preparation several million dollars have been added to the 2004 Selective Service System (SSS) budget. The SSS Administration must report to Bush on March 31, 2005 that the system, which has lain dormant for decades, is ready for activation. The Pentagon has quietly begun a public campaign to fill all 10,350 draft board positions and 11,070 appeals board slots nationwide. An unpopular election year topic, military experts and influential members of Congress are suggesting that if Rumsfeld?s prediction of a ?long, hard slog? in Iraq and Afghanistan (and a permanent state of war on ?terrorism?) proves accurate, the U.S. may have no choice but to draft.

Congress brought twin bills, S. 89 and H.R. 163 forward in 2003, introduced by Democratic Representative Charles Rangel and Democratic Senator Fritz Hollings. Entitled the Universal National Service Act of 2003, their aim is ?To provide for the common defense by requiring that all young persons (age 18-26) in the United States, including women, perform a period of military service or a period of civilian service in furtherance of the national defense and homeland security, and for other purposes.? These active bills currently sit in the Committee on Armed Services.

Dodging the draft will be more difficult than those from the Vietnam era remember. College and Canada will no longer be options. In December 2001, Canada and the US signed a ?Smart Border Declaration,? which could be used to contain would-be draft dodgers. The declaration involves a 30-point plan which implements, among other things, a ?pre-clearance agreement? of people entering and departing each country. Reforms aimed at making the draft more equitable along gender and class lines also eliminate higher education as a shelter. Underclassmen would only be able to postpone service until the end of their current semester. Seniors would have until the end of the academic year.

In May 2000, Delaware was the first state to enact legislation requiring that driver?s license information be sent to the SSS. By August 2003, thirty-two states, two territories and the District of Columbia followed suit. Non-compliance with sending information to the SSS has always been punishable by up to five years in prison and a $250,000 fine. Up to now, the government has never acted on these measures, but levied punishment would bar violators from federal employment and student loans. The SSS has altered its website (www.sss.gov) to include a front-page denial of a draft resurrection, but continues to post the twenty-four page Annual Performance Plan which includes its June 15 deadline still intact.

In addition to the possibility of a draft, the continual recruitment of Latinos into the armed forces has been creating volatile reactions from anti-recruitment advocates. The target recruitment of Latinos began during Clinton?s tenure in office. Louis Caldera, then Secretary of the Army, was able to discern that Latinos were the fastest growing group of military-age individuals in the United States. In May of 2003, the military was involved in a diplomatic dispute when recruiters made their way across the border. The headmaster of a Tijuana high school threw out the recruiter, and the Mexican government was vehemently upset. The Pentagon has preyed on the fact that Latinos and Latinas often enter the military in search of ?civilian skills? they can apply in the workforce.

In 2001, Department of Defense statistics showed that while 10% of military forces are comprised of Latinos, 17.7% of this group occupies ?frontline positions.? This includes, ?infantry, gun crews, and seamanship.? With the army?s continual banter about educational subsidies of up to $30,000 for college and completion of GED requirements, the ?glitz and glamour? of the military has enhanced misconceptions about the nature of military service for Latinos.

Charles Pena, director of defense studies at the libertarian Cato Institute presents a comparable conflict between the United States and the Middle East and the British and Northern Ireland where the occupying army encountered hostile opposition from civilian populations. In that situation the occupying army needed a ratio of 10 or 20 soldiers per 1,000 population, ?...If you transfer that to Iraq, it would mean you?d need at least 240,000 troops and maybe as many as 480,000.? With no sign of retreat or resolution and every indication of increasing opposition in locations occupied by troops, it will likely be deemed necessary to increase and maintain military presence. Additionally, there is the massive exodus of ally troops and aid from areas of occupation and combat. The US has been unable to draw major assistance from other countries and high enlistment bonuses have been both ineffective and expensive in light of the rapidly growing debt. Add to the growing list of unfavorable realities an unwillingness of soldiers to re-enlist, and the US is unable to meet the soldier quotient needed to continue occupation of Iraq alone; excluding the probability of troops expanding occupied territory and the White House promise of war in multiple theaters.

UPDATE BY MAUREEN FARRELL: While the draft became newsworthy in the immediate aftermath of Sept. 11, the mainstream media brushed most concerns aside. "Military Draft Unlikely for ?War? on Terrorism,?ABC News reported on Sept. 18, 2001, citing military analysts' opinions. The Brookings Institutions? Michael O'Hanlon, however, admitted that, should the U.S. military become involved in an extended occupation, then perhaps we?d be looking at ?the kinds of man power requirements that would advise in favor of a draft." By May 2004, O?Hanlon updated his prediction, citing mounting casualties and an over-reliance on National Guard and reserve troops in Iraq. ?The most likely cause [for reinstatement of the draft] would be an even more severe over-deployment of the all-volunteer force. . . ,? he wrote in the Los Angeles Times.

Though Rep. Charles Rangel also addressed conscription concerns, by the time my story appeared on BuzzFlash.com, little had been written about changes that would make ?draft dodging? more difficult. Few mentioned that draft laws had been changed in 1971 to restrict college deferments and even fewer discussed the sweeping new policies regarding selective service registration. The border agreement between Canada and the U.S. (yet another roadblock to would-be draft dodgers) received even less press.

I first became interested in this story in July 2002, after reading a letter to the editor of the Philadelphia Inquirer regarding pending legislation linking drivers' license applications to selective service registration. At the time, half of all U.S. states had enacted such legislation (with scarce media attention) and as of April 9, 2004, all but 13 states had either passed such legislation or were in the process of doing so (also with scarce media attention).

Since this story broke, Presidential candidates Dennis Kucinich and Ralph Nader have raised concerns over conscription's ever-increasing likelihood; Sen. Chuck Hagel has called for a national debate on the issue; and the Selective Service System's proposal to draft women and extend the draft registration age from 25 to 34 has been uncovered. Yet the mainstream media continues to ignore the larger implications in regard to he 2004 election. (The Internet remains an exception, however. BuzzFlash has featured several editorials on the subject and in May 2004, conservative columnist Paul Craig Roberts, writing for antiwar.com, wrote: ?If Bush is reelected, wider war and a draft to feed it seem a certainty.")

This story is important for several reasons, but most notably for the questions it raises. Why did the Selective Service System feel compelled to insure compliance through new laws? Does this shift have anything to do with the larger, but also underreported agenda to widen the war in the Middle East? Do most Americans comprehend the long-term consequences of President Bush?s stated desire to ?change the world??

An informed citizenry is crucial to democracy. Given that our military is already overextended, Americans need to scrutinize this administration's intentions for ?dealing with? Iran, Syria and other countries. And before they vote, they should also understand that extended military commitments would most likely require a return to the draft ? and that this time around, neither college nor Canada would provide refuge.

For map of states linking drivers? license applications to Selective Service registration: http://www.sss.gov/PDFs/DriversLicense2004.pdf
For information on how the draft has changed since Vietnam:
http://www.sss.gov/viet.htm
For more on the U.S.-Canada ?Smart Border Agreement?:
http://www.canadianembassy.org/border/declaration-en.asp

UPDATE BY JORGE MARISCAL: My article called attention to the Pentagon's efforts to double the number of Latinos in the U.S. military by 2006 and to the on-going militarization of public school systems. As popular support for the invasion and occupation of Iraq began to decline throughout early 2004, the Latino/a community became increasingly aware of the negative consequences of military service, the distortions used by military recruiters to seduce young people, and the increasingly limited range of alternatives available to working-class youth.

Counter-recruitment activities in predominantly Latino schools increased as never before. For the first time, activists, students, and educators in Los Angeles held a citywide counter-recruitment conference at Manual Arts High School. The organization formed at that conference continues to leaflet local high schools and hold meetings for parents and teachers. I was able to deliver lectures on militarism and the militarization of public schools at a number of venues throughout the Southwest. In April, activist Fernando Suarez del Solar and I spoke to approximately 300 students at the University of Texas, El Paso. Many of them vowed to begin counter-recruitment projects. Others said they would reconsider their decision to enlist in the military as a way to receive funding for education. We witnessed similar results in Albuquerque, San Antonio, and other cities with large Latino populations. Students at several universities in Puerto Rico organized protests to challenge the use of funding for ROTC programs. Efforts to establish a national network of counter-recruitment groups were successful and organizers called a national meeting for the summer of 2004 in Philadelphia.

Working with Fernando Suarez del Solar (who lost his son during the invasion of Iraq) and his Guerrero Azteca Project, our organization Project YANO visited numerous high schools, colleges, and Latino parents' groups in California. Across the state, students leafleted their schools with information about the truth behind the recruiters' sales pitch. At an anti-war poetry recital in San Diego, poet Jimmy Santiago Baca joined young local poets to raise funds for YANO's important work. YANO continues to produce Spanish language literature on the realities of military life and the partial truths presented by recruiters. Its director, Rick Jahnkow, advises other groups on how to begin and sustain counter-recruitment activities. YANO and its sister organization COMD continue to offer sound advice on the possibility of a military draft.

Mainstream coverage of the issues presented in my story was minimal. French, Swiss, and British journalists contacted us on several occasions but U.S. media outlets did not. In terms of our work in Spanish-language communities, we received a great deal of coverage from Spanish-language radio and television (e.g. Univision, Radio Bilingue) as well as the Spanish-language print media. Public radio stations with limited Latino programming in English (such as KPFK in Los Angeles) conducted several interviews with YANO members and associates.

Additional information about the issues raised in my story can be found at the following locations: Project on Youth and Non-Military Opportunities (YANO), www.projectyano.org; Committee Opposed to Militarism and the Draft (COMD), www.comdsd.org; American Friends Service Committee (AFSC), http://www.afsc.org/youthmil.htm; Guerrero Azteca Project, www.guerreroazteca.org.
 
You know something Phil, I am mean this with all respect, you are almost as bad as the liberal press on these issues.

S.89 is a bill in the Senate sponsored by Fritz Hollings ~ a Democrat. No Co-Sponsors

H.R. 163 is a bill in the House sponsored by Charles Rangle ~ of all people ~ also a Democrat.

But this bill is Co-Sponsored by a pack of Democrats. 14 in all. Democrat, Democrat, Democrat, Democrat, Democrat, Democrat, Democrat, Democrat, Democrat, Democrat, Democrat, Democrat, Democrat, Democrat.
Such illustrious names like John Conyers, Jeese L Jackson, Shiela Jackson-Lee, Lacy Clay, Pete Stark, etc.etc.etc.

Not a Republican in sight!!!

Why, because the military does not feel a need to have a draft AT THIS TIME. Our military is the best in the world BECAUSE it is an all volunteer military. Our best and brightest volunteer to serve and defend our country. What we don't need is a bunch of people like Sen Kerry signing up, and running with their tails between their legs at the first sign of trouble. We are far better off without subscripting a bunch a whiny losers. If we need more troops, President Bush will make a request before the American people, and our young people will step up to the plate.

Why is this legislation out there, and why are guy's like Rangle and Hollings proposing it? So liberals and the media can ignore the FACTS that these are Democratic bills simply proposed (DOA, I might add) to put fear and blame on the Bush administration and garner the headlines like you are trotting out.

Keep drinking the Kerry Kool-Aid. What's the flavor this month?
 
Raging republican red, thanks for asking Bryan.
If you had bothered to read the 2 articles you could eliminate half of your last post, but obviously you didn't, responding to the headline instead of reading the article. Typical raging right wing neocon republican hysterics.
 
I read them. I also considered the sources. I guess it just proves that you can "google" anything on the internet to support your point of view. Worthless meanderings if you ask this "raging right wing neocon republican"!
icon10.gif


Are you saying that if Kerry is elected, these same forces will no longer be in effect?

And why are these Democrat sponsored bills? I would have assumed based on the "headlines" that these were proposed by Bush as an evil attempt to take over of the world.
 
THE MILITARY
Panel Calls U.S. Troop Size Insufficient for Demands
By THOM SHANKER

Published: September 24, 2004

WASHINGTON, Sept. 23 - A Pentagon-appointed panel of outside experts has concluded in a new study that the American military does not have sufficient forces to sustain current and anticipated stability operations, like the festering conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan and other missions that might arise.

Portions of the study, which has not been officially released, were read into the public record on Thursday by Senator Jack Reed of Rhode Island, a leader of Democrats who want to expand the size of the military. During testimony by Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld and his top commanders, Senator Reed said he found the study "provocative and startling."

Mr. Rumsfeld said the report was an "excellent piece of work," and that he had ordered briefings on its findings for senior military and civilian officials.

But he cautioned after the hearing that the section read by Senator Reed was not a comprehensive synopsis, and that the authors of the study may not be fully aware of the variety of steps under way by the Pentagon broadly to lessen stress on the force, and actions taken specifically by the Army to increase the number of available combat forces without further expanding the military.

Senator Reed said the Defense Science Board study found "inadequate total numbers of U.S. troops" and "a lack of long-term endurance."

He quoted the report as saying that unless the United States scaled back its stabilization operations, it would have to reshape its forces to "trade combat capabilities for stabilization capabilities" or depend on contributions of troops from allied countries or the United Nations.

"If everything we recommend is implemented over the next five years but we continue our current foreign policy of military expeditions every two years, we will begin two more stabilization operations without sufficient preparation or resources," Mr. Reed said in describing the findings of the board, a high-level advisory group.

The study itself was managed by two defense industry executives: Craig Fields, a former chairman of the Defense Science Board and former head of the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency; and Philip A. Odeen, another former Defense Department official. "They conclude by saying: anything started wrong tends to continue wrong," Mr. Reed said during a four-hour hearing of the Senate Armed Services Committee.

Mr. Reed added that the study raises troubling questions in the event that the American presence in Iraq drags on and new emergencies arise. "Iran and North Korea are provocative," he said. "They very well might cause us to take military action; one hopes not. And then, as you often say, there's also the surprises that we don't even contemplate at this moment."

The issue of long-term deployments to Iraq, and whether the military should be further expanded, have become much-debated issues on the campaign trail this election year.

An article published Thursday by Inside the Pentagon, a military affairs newsletter, quoted the study as concluding that "current and projected force structure will not sustain our current and projected global stabilization commitments."

In assigning the project to the science board last January, Michael W. Wynne, an under secretary of defense, wrote: "Our military expeditions to Afghanistan and Iraq are unlikely to be the last such excursion in the global war on terrorism. We may need to support an ally under attack by terrorists determined to replace the legitimate government; we may need to effect change in the governance of a country that is blatantly sustaining support for terrorism; or we may need to assist an ally who is unable to govern areas of their own country, where terrorists may recruit, train and plan without interference by the legitimate government."

Under questioning by Senator Reed, Mr. Rumsfeld said the first goal is to maximize the use of troops already in the service by managing them better.

Mr. Rumsfeld cited a number of steps taken to ease the strain on the American military, including the shift of important combat skills from the reserves to active-duty troops, and the assignment of administrative tasks to civilians so those in uniform could return to combat duties.

Mr. Rumsfeld also complimented efforts by the Army to increase the number of combat-ready brigades by redesigning its divisions into more modular fighting units.

But he noted that if the reorganizations fail to field the military forces required by commanders, "then by golly, you're right, we'll have to go to an increase in end strength."

In brief comments to reporters following the hearing, Mr. Rumsfeld said the Defense Science Board "did a good job" with the study. Of the sections read into the public record, he cautioned, "You did not get a comprehensive synopsis" but only "a few paragraphs."

Mr. Rumsfeld declined to give a more thorough summary of the study.


HMMMMM, Sounds like they're gonna need more troops from somewhere. Or are they going to sign up those monkeys offered by one of the "Coalition" members?
:F
 
That last article you posted only adds more evidence that Bush doesn't want a draft and Democrats do. Do you even read the articles you post? Cause with enemies like you, who needs friends. Keep up the good work.
 
:N
97silverlsc said:
Portions of the study, which has not been officially released, were read into the public record on Thursday by Senator Jack Reed of Rhode Island, a leader of Democrats who want to expand the size of the military.[snip]

Mr. Rumsfeld [snip] ...cautioned after the hearing that the section read by Senator Reed was not a comprehensive synopsis, and that the authors of the study may not be fully aware of the variety of steps under way by the Pentagon broadly to lessen stress on the force, and actions taken specifically by the Army to increase the number of available combat forces without further expanding the military.
I agree with Kbob. Keep up the good work. You are making our case for us.
The Dems want this. Not Bush. Yet another example of the Democrats being disingenous. Man, are they good at it.

97silverlsc said:
HMMMMM, Sounds like they're gonna need more troops from somewhere.
We're going to use the voter registration files to pluck only Democrats out. Then we're going to set up a separate army division of these people, ages 18-70, and send them off to war to fight the red army ants.:N
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Bryan,
I doubt there is anything you disagree with from Kbob, birds of a feather that you are. I do disagree that this article shows that Shrub doesn't want the draft. This a preliminary report that down the line will still mean the same thing- the troops are over-stretched and they are going to need more bodies. Shrub has already hinted at his desire to go into Iran, and possibly N.Korea. He's going to need a lot more bodies to do that.
You both mistake my dislike of Shrub for being a democrat, while I'm actually an independent. I voted for reagan both times and bush the first. I won't tie myself to a party because I believe you should vote for the candidate that will do the most good for the country, although in the past few elections ifs been more like the one who will do the least harm.
That some democrats are pushing to increase the size of the military doesn't surprise me, there are hawks on both sides of the aisles. I think Shrub ignored the terrorist threat presented to him by Richard Clarke when he came to office, concerned more with how he could get into Iraq. To me, this is backed up by the article in the thread about Cheney's energy meetings documents. When 9/11 occured, he had the sympathy and support of the world. I agreed with going into Afghanistan cause thats where Al Quaida had training camps and because of the support given them by the Taliban. He didn't finish the job, which is documented by the renewed attacks by Taliban forces and the non-capture of Bin Laden. Remember "wanted dead or alive"? Now, Bin Laden is an afterthought. But when he went into Iraq, he lost my, and most of the worlds support. Poorly thought out, poorly supported by the "coalition", it is now turning into a quagmire. I can't guarantee, nor can anyone else, that Kerry will do a better job. But I know damn well that I don't like what Shrub has done here at home or with his "war presidency". I think he has done great damage to this country and honestly don't think that we can take another 4 years of him.
I will continue to post articles I think are pertinent to the election, not to sway you and Knob, I mean Kbob, but maybe to help others who may be undecided.

Phil
 
97silverlsc said:
You both mistake my dislike of Shrub for being a democrat, while I'm actually an independent. I voted for reagan both times and bush the first. I won't tie myself to a party because I believe you should vote for the candidate that will do the most good for the country, although in the past few elections ifs been more like the one who will do the least harm.
Phil, my poor head is spinning round and round. Or is it flip flopping back and forth. LOL.

You voted for Reagan 2 times and Bush 41, and you support Kerry!!!??? You didn't say if you voted for Clinton, but something just isn't right here.

Got to run. Maybe we can have some fun tonight when I get back from meeting scrub!
 
MonsterMark said:
Under a President Kerry, the military will have a hard time finding volunteers to serve under a commander-in-chief who is a self-proclaimed traitor and an extreme vasilator. Troop moral will hit an all-time low and recruitment will be next to impossible. So the draft will be inevitable under a President Kerry.
I haven't been following the buisiness in Iraq for some time. As a result I may be misinformed on the subject, and correct me if I am wrong but didn't Bush cut the troops pay? I wouldn't say that would be good for their moral.
 
Biocow said:
I haven't been following the buisiness in Iraq for some time. As a result I may be misinformed on the subject, and correct me if I am wrong but didn't Bush cut the troops pay? I wouldn't say that would be good for their moral.
No, he did not cut the pay.
 
97silverlsc said:
I will continue to post articles I think are pertinent to the election, not to sway you and Knob, I mean Kbob, but maybe to help others who may be undecided.

Phil
You really mean that you will continue to flood this forum with old, recycled op-ed pieces critical of the Bush administration. If you are so independent, why not sing Kerry's praises? Where is your objective eye with him? Because you can't win when the focus is on him and you know it. The difference between you and me (besides who we're voting for obviously) is that if Kerry wins, you'll be happy and I'll be noncommittal. But if Bush wins, I'll be happy and you'll be suicidal. Such seething, misplaced hatred.
 
Biocow said:
Okay, thanks for the clarification.
You're right, though, if the troops' pay were cut there would be a decline in the morale. That's why no one wants to do that.
 
97silverlsc said:
I will continue to post articles I think are pertinent to the election, not to sway you and Knob, I mean Kbob, but maybe to help others who may be undecided.Phil
I am sure the misspelled name was posted in good fun but I really draw the line at name calling. Please refrain from doing so. Personal attacks are not encouraged or allowed. Good, clean, tough discussions are fine. But keep it nice so we can all enjoy and participate. This is one of the few automotive forums on the web that allow serious political discussions. We allow it so that everybody that wants to participate can, others may lurk and some might pick up a few points of interest that will help them on decision day.

Thanks for your understanding...
 
MonsterMark said:
I am sure the misspelled name was posted in good fun ...
Hahaha! I missed the insult. Thanks for pointing that out, that's actually funny to me. No offense here. I was actually going to refer to Phil as 97liberallsc, but thought better of it since I thought I would be accused of being a hater or something. That's the 2nd time I've missed something recently. I think Punisher posted "Bucks sucks" yesterday and I thought he posted "Bush sucks". I didn't catch it until I reread it later. Either way I thought it was funny. I need to get my eyes checked. No problems here, but thanks for the thought. Knob out.
 

Members online

Back
Top