Is Suffering Part of God's Plan?

PetesSweets86

PetesSweets86

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fossten said:
And what if space aliens came down and abducted Harry Reid and Obama - would that be for the greater good in your eyes?

Didn't think anybody could surpass Johnny's stupidity on this site - but you did. :rolleyes:
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If there were space aliens in this Galaxy (which is 95% unlikely) then they have already given up hope with coming to Earth. We are a cancer, always have and always will. We use up more than our fair share. We are egotistical, greedy, and selfloving. We make money off of other's pain/greef and then at the end of the day we go a pray to an imaginary friend for forgiveness to try and clear our conscience.


I have no reason to disprove God as he already disproves himself. Unless something comes to the plate that was now made or written by man about an unearthly being.

YouTube- Viewer Mail - Knowing There's No God
 
PetesSweets86 said:
I have no reason to disprove God as he already disproves himself. Unless something comes to the plate that was now made or written by man about an unearthly being.
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Petey, you never fail to demonstrate your petulant ignorance.

You cannot take matters of faith and turn them into logical debate; that negates the whole notion of faith and and takes it out of context. Even Athiests base their views in faith yet are unwilling (or unable) to acknowledge that faith (specifically in the area of metaphysics).

This debate starts at that basic level of metaphysical assumptions; any discussion ignoring that is simply circular reasoning, yelling past each other and wasting time. Unfortunately, almost all Athiests I have met refuse to acknowledge and discuss those different metaphysical assumptions.
 
shagdrum said:
Petey, you never fail to demonstrate your petulant ignorance.

You cannot take matters of faith and turn them into logical debate; that negates the whole notion of faith and and takes it out of context. Even Athiests base their views in faith yet are unwilling (or unable) to acknowledge that faith (specifically in the area of metaphysics).

This debate starts at that basic level of metaphysical assumptions; any discussion ignoring that is simply circular reasoning, yelling past each other and wasting time. Unfortunately, almost all Athiests I have met refuse to acknowledge and discuss those different metaphysical assumptions.
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I'm open to discuss metaphysical assumptions as I have not been in the senario of my own death to disprove life after death but I can disprove of a "greater good" to which ALL bad things are meant for a greater good which I highly decline
 
shagdrum said:
We have had this discussion numerous times on this forum. Your arguments are specious and baiting. Please have the decency to familiarize yourself with what has come before on this forum and treat an opposing view with respect instead of mocking it and engaging in childish demagoguery of religious views..
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Well we never discussed if there is intelligent design then why are we not better designed by the supreme being.

Is this the best he could do.
Make us weak shortlived fragile easily damaged meat popcicles?
That is his image?

If Jesus was God and man then that is the greatest thing ever or if not then the greatest conceit ever, thinking somehow we're in the same league as the creator of the vast universe.
 
04SCTLS said:
Well we never discussed if there is intelligent design then why are we not better designed by the supreme being.
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Actually, that argument has been confronted on this forum already.

Essentially, it is an absurd argument that seeks to move the goalposts by saying that if the creation is not perfect then it must not be creation. It is a cheap excuse to dismiss the ID position; sophistry. In looking to prove or disprove design, it is irrelevant weather or not the design is perfect. That argument only makes sense if you assume the design has to be perfect; at which point the argument becomes circular.

If you want a more in depth discussion, go back and look at the previous threads where this has been discussed. They are likely before you got here and/or started participating in the politics section of the forum.
 
PetesSweets86 said:
I'm open to discuss metaphysical assumptions as I have not been in the senario of my own death to disprove life after death but I can disprove of a "greater good" to which ALL bad things are meant for a greater good which I highly decline
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???

That hardly even makes sense.

Do you even know what metaphysics is? Can you justify the materialist assumptions that Athiesm rests on?
 
shagdrum said:
???

That hardly even makes sense.

Do you even know what metaphysics is? Can you justify the materialist assumptions that Athiesm rests on?
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metaphysics is the study of knowing and being, simple concept. How is my argument unrelated?
Btw, I'm not an Athiest. To be summed up into one catagory or belief is to call me a christian, or muslim, or budist.....

As there are many variations of religion there is also many of those who denounce religion, have lost faith in religion, those abused by religion, or find religion unjust in using it as a means to inflict extremist views
 
PetesSweets86 said:
metaphysics is the study of knowing and being, simple concept. How is my argument unrelated?
Btw, I'm not an Athiest. To be summed up into one catagory or belief is to call me a christian, or muslim, or budist.....
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Maybe it would help if you explain your views. Do you believe in an afterlife? Do you believe in a God? Is the material world all there is?
 
shagdrum said:
Maybe it would help if you explain your views. Do you believe in an afterlife? Do you believe in a God? Is the material world all there is?
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I cannot explain an afterlife to you as I have not experienced it, not has ANYONE ever been dead and come back to explain such a thing. So setting afterlife aside I believe in no such ultimate being, the concept of how we have inteligence is all in part by evolving to meet the criteria of how we grow and learn. English is but a long long way from cave drawings.

The material world? define what you mean by that statement....it's too clouded of a term"
 
PetesSweets86 said:
I cannot explain an afterlife to you as I have not experienced it, not has ANYONE ever been dead and come back to explain such a thing.
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Actually, there have been people who have come back and explained "such a thing".

the concept of how we have inteligence is all in part by evolving to meet the criteria of how we grow and learn.
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This doesn't make sense.

The material world? define what you mean by that statement....it's too clouded of a term"
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This big difference in Athiest and Theist views is that Athiests assume materialism yet they won't confront that fact.

Materialism:the philosophical theory that regards matter and its motions as constituting the universe, and all phenomena, including those of mind, as due to material agencies.​
Considering your focus on empirical verification, I would imagine you are a materialist.
 
04SCTLS said:
Anybody who talks at length about God's plan while running for public office is unfit to govern and should be treated with suspicion.
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Link

Nevertheless, [Obama's] spiritual life on the campaign trail survives. He says he prays every day, typically for "forgiveness for my sins and flaws, which are many, the protection of my family, and that I'm carrying out God's will, not in a grandiose way, but simply that there is an alignment between my actions and what he would want."
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PetesSweets86 said:
If there were space aliens in this Galaxy (which is 95% unlikely) then they have already given up hope with coming to Earth. We are a cancer, always have and always will. We use up more than our fair share. We are egotistical, greedy, and selfloving. We make money off of other's pain/greef and then at the end of the day we go a pray to an imaginary friend for forgiveness to try and clear our conscience.
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Man's evil deeds do not disprove God's existence, they only support evidence of Satan's.
 
shagdrum said:
Actually, there have been people who have come back and explained "such a thing".
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Do they have any proof it was not just a delusion or dream? You are asking for a lot of blind faith with a claim such as that.

shagdrum said:
This big difference in Athiest and Theist views is that Athiests assume materialism yet they won't confront that fact.
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...... Please rationalize this in greater detail.
 
FIND said:
Do they have any proof it was not just a delusion or dream? You are asking for a lot of blind faith with a claim such as that.
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Three Men Who Went to Hell, shown on PM Magazine, Channel 11, Los Angeles, Feb 24, 1982
 
FIND said:
Touche.



Or they are entirely unrelated, since even the bible says man has free will, therefore the actions and behaviors of man are unrelated to the existence of God even if you believe in god.
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If you quote the Bible you do so disingenuously because you've already stated you reject all of it. You can't have it both ways and still be intellectually honest.
 
fossten said:
If you quote the Bible you do so disingenuously because you've already stated you reject all of it. You can't have it both ways and still be intellectually honest.
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I can't quote a book because I believe it to be a work of fiction? All I said was that the bible states very clearly that man has free will, therefore if you believe in god, the evil deeds of man are in no way related to proof for or against God or Satan.

Or is it just that you don't like when your own beliefs invalidate your argument?
 
FIND said:
Do they have any proof it was not just a delusion or dream? You are asking for a lot of blind faith with a claim such as that.
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What constitutes proof?

...... Please rationalize this in greater detail.
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Rationalize or explain?

One is a polite request aimed at a better understanding of a foreign notion. One is snarky and suggests a predisposition toward dismissing any argument given.
 
FIND said:
I can't quote a book because I believe it to be a work of fiction? All I said was that the bible states very clearly that man has free will, therefore if you believe in god, the evil deeds of man are in no way related to proof for or against God or Satan.

Or is it just that you don't like when your own beliefs invalidate your argument?
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Nope. Definitely you being hypocritical is the salient point.

Oh, and back on topic:

Sharron Angle, 7-point lead over Harry "This war is lost" Reid.
 
fossten said:
Sharron Angle, 7-point lead over Harry "This war is lost" Reid.
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Tracking - 3 weeks ago she was up by 11 points - she lost 4 points over that period, and the 7-point lead was of the 23rd - before this story. She will lose more. People don't like religion in their politics in most areas of the country.

But November is far away in the time frame of political polls.
 
shagdrum said:
What constitutes proof?
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That is the problem.

shagdrum said:
Rationalize or explain?

One is a polite request aimed at a better understanding of a foreign notion. One is snarky and suggests a predisposition toward dismissing any argument given.
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Wasn't my intention to be snarky.... probably an unconscious result of responding to a snarky statement.
 
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