i want low end torque

Moes8 said:
um, sorry .dont want to sound sarcastic,but exactly what do think changing gears will do??

raise rpm's and nothing else?

3.73- 4.10's will make your car feel like you took 500lbs off of it.

ever notice how much better a car accelerates in a lower gear than a higher one? like 2nd gear instead of 3rd...


3.07-3.27 factory gears are so high for the weight of these cars,

even cars with the new Hemis and all there torque now have much lower gears nowadays,they rely on deeper overdrives and 6 speed trans to make up for it,i think i saw somewhere the srt-8(420hp) turns something like 2400 rpm's at 60mph,

look where the mark runs at 60 stock... 1500rpm's.

Gears rule for the $$$

and what does "i dont want to multiply what i already have "mean??

of course you want to multiply it silly.


ok ,sorry i am done, no offense, just rethink your thinking ,you might be pleasantly surprised.
Click to expand...

Gears will multiply the torque i ALREADY have. gears will raise rpm. gears will make it feel 500 lbs lighter.

what they wont do is give you any gain in torque.

why do i keep getting the same response. has anyone actually gained any torque with gears? i just want to know if anyone has gotten more torque out of the 32v without gears or tc/sc. it seems like there are some very smart and well versed people that can help me with my car and everyone wants gears. there must be a way. someone must have done it. i understand gears is a very wise move if you want better acceleration, but by itself you are still going to have no torque in the low end. sure, it might get up to higher r's faster, but you still have nothing in the lows. either way, i just wanted to hear some ideas to get the actual torque higher in lower rpms. no offense here either. i appreciate the help from this site very much. just looking for a different way to do it.
 
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crownvicjim said:
Gears will multiply the torque i ALREADY have. gears will raise rpm. gears will make it feel 500 lbs lighter.

what they wont do is give you any gain in torque.

why do i keep getting the same response. has anyone actually gained any torque with gears? i just want to know if anyone has gotten more torque out of the 32v without gears or tc/sc. it seems like there are some very smart and well versed people that can help me with my car and everyone wants gears. there must be a way. someone must have done it. i understand gears is a very wise move if you want better acceleration, but by itself you are still going to have no torque in the low end. sure, it might get up to higher r's faster, but you still have nothing in the lows. either way, i just wanted to hear some ideas to get the actual torque higher in lower rpms. no offense here either. i appreciate the help from this site very much. just looking for a different way to do it.
Click to expand...


have you ever in your life rode a 10 speed bike??? lower the gear enough and you will have torque as soon as the rpm's start. doesnt matter if your legs are any stronger or not,you just gained torque at the wheels by dropping from 5th to 2nd gear.....


you want more torque at the crank? we all thought you wanted more torque at the wheels/pavement,

these motors have 280+ ft/lbs of torque,yet cars with 200 ft lbs can beat us off the line because of weight and gearing difference,

you realize our cars will do ~55mph in first gear, a car that tops out at 30 ish mph in first will have a whole hell of a lot more "TORQUE" off the line.

i totally understand that you want to actually improve the TQ of the engine,we all do,but other than nitrous or supercharger nothing will net you enough additional torque to overcome the weight and pathetic rear gears of our beloved marks , you can do a ton of engine work and gain maybe 20-30 ft lbs of TQ ,you wont feel it that much if at all,because you will most likely be moving the TQ higher up the rpm range, which is why we want gears,to get to those rpm's

i know you understand what we all are saying and i think we all understand you too,

go with a S/C ,i think thats what you need if you dont like the idea of gears.
 
Moes8 said:
have you ever in your life rode a 10 speed bike??? lower the gear enough and you will have torque as soon as the rpm's start. doesnt matter if your legs are any stronger or not,you just gained torque at the wheels by dropping from 5th to 2nd gear.....


you want more torque at the crank? we all thought you wanted more torque at the wheels/pavement,

these motors have 280+ ft/lbs of torque,yet cars with 200 ft lbs can beat us off the line because of weight and gearing difference,

you realize our cars will do ~55mph in first gear, a car that tops out at 30 ish mph in first will have a whole hell of a lot more "TORQUE" off the line.

i totally understand that you want to actually improve the TQ of the engine,we all do,but other than nitrous or supercharger nothing will net you enough additional torque to overcome the weight and pathetic rear gears of our beloved marks , you can do a ton of engine work and gain maybe 20-30 ft lbs of TQ ,you wont feel it that much if at all,because you will most likely be moving the TQ higher up the rpm range, which is why we want gears,to get to those rpm's

i know you understand what we all are saying and i think we all understand you too,

go with a S/C ,i think thats what you need if you dont like the idea of gears.
Click to expand...

haha. did you read what i wrote???

10 speed?? you still dont have more torque. period.

they have 280 ft lbs, but not off the line. gears STILL do not change that.


i dont want a supercharger(well i do, but who doesnt.)

i like being in second gear doing 90.

i would figure you could maybe get the torque powerband lower??
its gotta be possible right?
it might not pay to do this. maybe you lose too much in the top end. i dont know. but i would like to know my options. gears are great and maybe i will go that route, but i really dont want to. my last car was a 91 crown vic. old cop car. had a 351 bored/stroked to 427. it was mild for the build but had 550ft lbs and you could sure feel it off the line

i would think they make cams,stroker kits, all kinds of thing to wake these engines up. i know im never going to get that feeling, but even minor gains can add up to something you can "feel". whether its a whole lists of bolt ons or whatever.

maybe i should be more specific.

If i were to add a maf and conical air filter, ice box, kooks headers, chip, exhaust, underdrive pulleys, all the basic bolt ons, what kind of low end torque will i gain?
is there any othe way to get low end torque without getting a supercharger or gears?
what kind of power would i gain by stroking it?
or by camming it?
and will it be in the lower rpm range?
thanks.
 
crownvicjim said:
what they wont do is give you any gain in torque.
Click to expand...

4V Mod Motors are not big torque motors. They can make torque, but your are dealing with a relatively small 281.


Without talking amount $$$ because it doesn't seem to matter to you, the following options are available.
If you are only interested in increasing low-end torque.

1) Cams with tighter lobe separation. Not higher lift. Closing the valve sooner will also benefit low end grunt.
2) Oversize the valves. Do NOT add port size. Some bowl work is good though.
3) Add a stroker crank.
4) Increase Compression with new pistons. 11-1 would be great and a max with 93 octane. We do have knock sensors as a fall back.
5) Overbore the cylinders 20 over.
6) Headers, stay with the smallest primary size and go with flow-thru mufflers.
7) Alter spark advance to fire the plug sooner.
8) Keep timing to between 12-15 degrees.
9) Do NOT put in a gay K&N setup. Stay with a CAI with the air coming from under the car. 4" tube would be preferred throughout.

So get started tearing into that motor.
 
crownvicjim said:
If i were to add a maf and conical air filter, ice box, kooks headers, chip, exhaust, underdrive pulleys, all the basic bolt ons, what kind of low end torque will i gain?
Click to expand...

Going in the wrong direction there pal.

Reread my previous post.

Do you want to pay to play. What is your budget. Be realistic.

I already told you the most realistic thing to do is add a small KenneBell 1.5L.

Everything else involves tearing into the motor.

Adding bolt ons will do squat. Most of that just moves the curve up and out.

You have emphatically stated you wanted to move it up and in.

Timing (spark)
Cams (timing)
Crank (stroke)
Pistons (compression/bore)
Valves (flow)
Intake (cold air)
 
I've wondered the same thing. There was a million things to do to my old LT1, I'm not very familiar with these engines yet. I'd like gears, but I love the tall gears on the highway. I figured there should be some head work or cam stuff that would get more torque. I realize there is cost envolved I just like lots of power and all motor. :rolleyes: .....Those gears are sounding better every day:D !
 
http://www.modularmustangracing.com/
MMR 4.6 Race 325 Cubic Inch, 5.3 Liter Stroker Mod 1400 (up to 1400HP)
*Brand New FORD RACING BIG BORE ALUMINUM BLOCK, torque plate bored and honed, this is a block designed specifically by ford for 3.700 Bore. THIS IS NOT A TEKSID BLOCK THAT HAS BEEN MACHINED AND SLEEVED, MMR DOES NOT SELL OR RECOMMEND THIS DUE TO HEAD GASKET SEALING ISSUES AND WATER LEAKING BETWEEN THE SLEEVES AND INTO THE OIL!!!
*New 4340 Forged MMR STROKER Crankshaft, includes additional heat treat w/micro polished journals at no extra charge
*New 4340 Manley Pro-series Billet Rods w/ARP 2000 Rod bolts( These US made rods are shotpeened, magnafluxed and weight matched to bring you the finest I-beam rod available for your 4.6
*New Forged MMR/Manley or Diamond Custom pistons 3.700 Bore size (High or low compression)
*Speed Pro file fit rings (precision file fit to your application, nitrous, blower, turbo or N/A)
*Federal Mogul Competition series heat treated Rod and Main bearings
*ARP main stud kit for maintaining correct cap location under the hardest of loads
*Complete Pro Assembly and Balancing for the smoothest, highest revving shortblock available.

Shortblock Options:
Coated Pistons (ceramic dome/teflon skirt) $399.99
Upgrade to MMR block side bolts (recommended for 500+ HP) +$44.99
MMR Street/Racing Oil Pump (highly recommended) + $179.99
Cometic 3.700 Bore Head Gaskets + $249.99
ARP Headstuds +$269.99
MMR windage tray and hardware kit (+15HP) + 129.99


With a set of 04 Cobra heads
Stage 2 MMR 03/04 Cobra heads (no exchange required Brand new!!)
These new fully assembled heads feature MMR stage 2 Intake,Exhaust and combustion chamber porting and polishing, fully assembled with new factory valves and springs. Gain 45-55 HP over a non ported 03/04 Cobra Head
Upgrades ( includes free install)
MMR stainless steel High flow valves $379.99
Comp High performance/High Lift springs (compatible w/ all cams) $349.99
Titanium Valve Retainers $449.99
2003-2004 Cobra Cams + $200
Comp cams Billet stage 1-3 + $1099.99

No need for a blower or turbo. Still would step the gears up to atleast a 3.55, dyno tune with a full exhaust and you will have a nice set up there.
 
Extensive build ups sure drain the wallet fast. Maybe a happy medium between race prep block and a little more power. Hey,.....those gears look pretty good still huh?:rolleyes:
 
crownvicjim- If you had started a post saying, how can I build more power with my Mark this might be different, but you wanted more low end which not something the mod motors are known for. Your asking for low end grunt and everyone who is in the know will tell ya gears are the best, but you just want to disagree. If you feel like asking questions just to disagree with people who actually know what they are talking about why the :q:q:q:q are you asking questions at all?

I'll tell you what I think you should do, go to markviii.org and ask stupid questions and then disagree and argue with people.
 
kustomizingkid said:
Your asking for low end grunt
Click to expand...

I know what he wants. He is just not gonna get there with bolt-ons or a chip.

He wants to be able to drive around and have the motor pull him.

I understand totally.

A 4V with a 3.07 or 3.27 stock is not gonna do it at 290 rwtq and 3800 lbs.

So he wants to know what he can do.

1) Fear the gear (4.10) (4.30) and the car will appear to pull harder simply due to the ratio. Add a stall and the car will launch harder being in the power band from zero mph.

2) Do the KenneBell and have tons of torque down around 2300 rpm.

3) Get into the motor as I listed above and make the motor swallow harder and give up some top end stuff.

Let's face it, he wants v10 pulling power from idle. That is not this motor.

Be willing to switch heads/intake and there are lots more options out there.
 
maybe it would be easier to start with dropping in a 5.4 32valver from a navigator?

how much work is that??? has anyone tried?
 
kustomizingkid said:
crownvicjim- If you had started a post saying, how can I build more power with my Mark this might be different, but you wanted more low end which not something the mod motors are known for. Your asking for low end grunt and everyone who is in the know will tell ya gears are the best, but you just want to disagree. If you feel like asking questions just to disagree with people who actually know what they are talking about why the :q:q:q:q are you asking questions at all?

I'll tell you what I think you should do, go to markviii.org and ask stupid questions and then disagree and argue with people.
Click to expand...

i dont want to fight on here. i mean what the heck!! i just wanted to know what my options were. i cant believe the crap i am getting. did YOU read what i origanally wrote and posted after that?? gears are great. i DO NOT want gears. i was wondering if there was any other ways to make low end torque. apparently it is very hard for this motor and thanks to the guys who really DIDanswer my question. instead of whatever the heck some of you are talking about.
know what theyre talking about??? yeah most of you do. and i appreciate it. but if i wanted a b.s. answer like gears(i know i know) i woulda asked if gears will gain me any torque. i didnt. i even said not gears. i dont know why its so hard to just tell me these engines are hard to produce torque at the low end, but if you have the money you could.....,or.....,and........i mean i dont know. then you call it a stupid question.whatever. markviii.org? probably some more idiots huh. we all are. cut your holier than now crap. were all about the same thing here. unless you got a caddy?? lol.
 
MonsterMark said:
I know what he wants. He is just not gonna get there with bolt-ons or a chip.

He wants to be able to drive around and have the motor pull him.

I understand totally.

A 4V with a 3.07 or 3.27 stock is not gonna do it at 290 rwtq and 3800 lbs.

So he wants to know what he can do.

1) Fear the gear (4.10) (4.30) and the car will appear to pull harder simply due to the ratio. Add a stall and the car will launch harder being in the power band from zero mph.

2) Do the KenneBell and have tons of torque down around 2300 rpm.

3) Get into the motor as I listed above and make the motor swallow harder and give up some top end stuff.

Let's face it, he wants v10 pulling power from idle. That is not this motor.

Be willing to switch heads/intake and there are lots more options out there.
Click to expand...

thank you. exactly what i wanted to know. dissapointed though. i really thought there would be a little easier way to wake the torque curve up a little earlier. oh well. its still fun after 30 mph.
 
Sal329 said:
http://www.modularmustangracing.com/
MMR 4.6 Race 325 Cubic Inch, 5.3 Liter Stroker Mod 1400 (up to 1400HP)
*Brand New FORD RACING BIG BORE ALUMINUM BLOCK, torque plate bored and honed, this is a block designed specifically by ford for 3.700 Bore. THIS IS NOT A TEKSID BLOCK THAT HAS BEEN MACHINED AND SLEEVED, MMR DOES NOT SELL OR RECOMMEND THIS DUE TO HEAD GASKET SEALING ISSUES AND WATER LEAKING BETWEEN THE SLEEVES AND INTO THE OIL!!!
*New 4340 Forged MMR STROKER Crankshaft, includes additional heat treat w/micro polished journals at no extra charge
*New 4340 Manley Pro-series Billet Rods w/ARP 2000 Rod bolts( These US made rods are shotpeened, magnafluxed and weight matched to bring you the finest I-beam rod available for your 4.6
*New Forged MMR/Manley or Diamond Custom pistons 3.700 Bore size (High or low compression)
*Speed Pro file fit rings (precision file fit to your application, nitrous, blower, turbo or N/A)
*Federal Mogul Competition series heat treated Rod and Main bearings
*ARP main stud kit for maintaining correct cap location under the hardest of loads
*Complete Pro Assembly and Balancing for the smoothest, highest revving shortblock available.

Shortblock Options:
Coated Pistons (ceramic dome/teflon skirt) $399.99
Upgrade to MMR block side bolts (recommended for 500+ HP) +$44.99
MMR Street/Racing Oil Pump (highly recommended) + $179.99
Cometic 3.700 Bore Head Gaskets + $249.99
ARP Headstuds +$269.99
MMR windage tray and hardware kit (+15HP) + 129.99


With a set of 04 Cobra heads
Stage 2 MMR 03/04 Cobra heads (no exchange required Brand new!!)
These new fully assembled heads feature MMR stage 2 Intake,Exhaust and combustion chamber porting and polishing, fully assembled with new factory valves and springs. Gain 45-55 HP over a non ported 03/04 Cobra Head
Upgrades ( includes free install)
MMR stainless steel High flow valves $379.99
Comp High performance/High Lift springs (compatible w/ all cams) $349.99
Titanium Valve Retainers $449.99
2003-2004 Cobra Cams + $200
Comp cams Billet stage 1-3 + $1099.99

No need for a blower or turbo. Still would step the gears up to atleast a 3.55, dyno tune with a full exhaust and you will have a nice set up there.
Click to expand...

is that the new Aluminator?
 
AbrahamLincoln said:
is that the new Aluminator?
Click to expand...

I beleive that that is what they use
I think next year I am going to get their stroker kit and have a local machine shop install it in the teskid block
Id love to install the Navi engine in the car, hell they get em in the SN95 mustangs
Crownvic my answer really wasn't ment to be a sarcastic one, I was showingwhat it would take to get the low end without a supecharger.
 
If you want to go fast my buds will build you a Nascar engine for $15K that will do 800 hp at 9000 rpm. No emissions of course.;)
 
Look at his name! crownvicjim I would guess he owned a crownvic and them he buys a Lincoln with a more powerful 4.6 32v
But his old CrownVic jumps off the line way better.

I knew this right at the get!


MonsterMark said:
I know what he wants. He is just not gonna get there with bolt-ons or a chip.

He wants to be able to drive around and have the motor pull him.

I understand totally.

A 4V with a 3.07 or 3.27 stock is not gonna do it at 290 rwtq and 3800 lbs.

So he wants to know what he can do.

1) Fear the gear (4.10) (4.30) and the car will appear to pull harder simply due to the ratio. Add a stall and the car will launch harder being in the power band from zero mph.

2) Do the KenneBell and have tons of torque down around 2300 rpm.

3) Get into the motor as I listed above and make the motor swallow harder and give up some top end stuff.

Let's face it, he wants v10 pulling power from idle. That is not this motor.

Be willing to switch heads/intake and there are lots more options out there.
Click to expand...
 
buddylee said:
Look at his name! crownvicjim I would guess he owned a crownvic and them he buys a Lincoln with a more powerful 4.6 32v
But his old CrownVic jumps off the line way better.

I knew this right at the get!
Click to expand...

lol. my old "crown vic" was a 351 bored n stroked to a 427. It had ported ford dooe heads, mild cam, performer rpm intake, 750 holley, msd, very reworked aode tranny, 3.73 auburn, and 255/60/15 goodyears. no the linc does not have more power anywhere. low or high. what the linc has is luxury, looks, AND performance. i love this linc. i dont know everything about it or the modular engine. im not gonna act like i do. but there are a lot of people on here that have WAY more knowledge than i do and thats great. i want to learn what i can do to my car to get it to have more low end torque because thats what I want. dont judge people man. who the heck are you?
 
MonsterMark said:
If you want to go fast my buds will build you a Nascar engine for $15K that will do 800 hp at 9000 rpm. No emissions of course.;)
Click to expand...

would be nice. i know this is not the same type of engine i had in the past. that took years to get to that point. dont even think i would want that. i like my linc for a daily driver. i dont mind spending the money over time, but that would be a little to radical. what abou those cobra heads? seem like a good investment if you ever wanted to do something a little different. sometimes its not really about the bang for buck. the stroker kit is nice too. its just so hard to figure what to do first and what to get if you plan on major upgrades. tranny probably should come first i would think. i dunno.
 
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