I really hate Ford Dealers

Kumba

Kumba

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You know, I thought I would try something different on this car. Instead of managing my own maintenance and repairs I was going to buy a car warranty through Ford. Whenever something goes wrong I would just throw the keys at the dealer and tell them to call me when it was fixed. How nice it all sounded.

It's honestly been a bigger pain in the ass to get the dealer to do something then if I just bought the damn part myself and replaced it. My latest adventure is a wheel bearing going bad on the drivers side rear. Since Ford only sells the knuckle assembly it is a $1500 replacement job. Nice. Ohh, and somehow that's not considered part of the driveline so my warranty is useless.

Guess I'll be buying a $25 bearing and using the oven to change it out.

Also have had a problem ever since I bought the car which was a nasty vibration at 75-mph. Every time I tell the dealer this they tell me to just balance the tires. When that doesn't work they tell me to buy new tires. Nevermind what I am telling them, I just own the car, I don't know my arse from a hole in the ground. Probably cause I take the thing to the dealer to begin with. They are so adamant that it's tires that I usually tell them to put whatever tires on it they want and if the vibration goes away I'll pay for it. Suddenly they back-off. I guess they aren't that convinced in their own diagnosis to back it up with conviction. Nice.

I guess I am just going to call Ford's ESP and tell them their warranty is useless and to give me my money back. Evidently unless the failure is catastrophic they will instead just give up.

Anyway, rant over. I'll only have to deal with them for 3 more oil changes and then the drivetrain warranty is up and I can do whatever the heck I want.
 
Is there an official service dealer rant thread? If not we should make one.

It's ok, you're not alone. Sorry to hear about your luck with the warranty. The service doesn't get better afterwards even if you tell them what you want and are willing to pay. What I don't understand is how they charge labor. It doesn't take that long to swap in the hub assy if it's on a lift with the right tools. Unfortunately most of us are doing this from the comfort of our own home so a lift isn't accessible. If someone's paying a $100 an hour for labor I'd expect them to be working on it non stop with proper breaks here and there to prevent workplace injuries.

They still can't tell me what the clunking noise in the front is after paying multiple "diagnostic" fees and asking to check the sway bar, not the end links the sway bar. Feel like I get taken advantage of because I don't have the room or equipment to do anything underneath the car. The last explanation of it was "when you push down on the fender you feel this with your hand". Well I was expecting more because any orangutan can do that.

Also, my squeaky rear suspension just so happened to fix itself when it went in last. If they did a quick fix to get me back in there to have it fixed again I'm going to flip a lid. They told me that it didn't squeak. For :q:q:q:q sake it squeaked when I got out of it when I dropped it off. Bullsnag. I'm convinced that I could go in there, tell them to find everything wrong with my car, knowing what's wrong, they'd return it and say nothing and hope I'd come back.

Not to hi-jack, I just think a thread full of dealer rants has potential for a good read.
 
I've had my fair share of issues with dealers especially in regards to the suspension. I'm lowered on Eibachs with 19's so all they want to do is bich about that rather than finding the problem and fixing it.

I had it in with the whole squeaking issue about 6 months ago. They told me it needed a bunch of rear suspension parts. If I remember correctly, Kumba actually helped me in a previous thread when I ordered those parts - I got them through Tasca and had the dealer install/align and of course there is still a nasty squeak - one that is very noticeable but one they never seem to hear. I'm pretty sure I'm due for new sway bar bushings but don't know what other suspension components need replacement in the front. I purposely told them to check the front suspension as well as the rear. I find it very hard to believe they even bothered to look at the the front of the car since they didn't mention that anything needed to be replaced. Seems odd though because I would think they want to find as many things wrong as possible to charge me as much as possible. I'm not opposed to paying a reasonable price for the parts and I'm not even opposed to paying a reasonable price for the stuff to be installed, but I am opposed to just throwing money at it because they take a guess that doesn't even fix the problem.

I go to a dealer that's about 10 minutes from me although I really am not a big fan of the service I get there. Unfortunately, other Ford/Lincoln dealers are 30+ minutes from me. I used to go to one about 45 minutes away but that got annoying.
 
Took my car in for vibration, and found out I've got the same wheel bearing problem. The service guy told me 1500 also and that my axle is falling apart and it needs to be replaced too. He told me they could try the junkyard route and get the knuckle and everything for me for around 300, but I haven't heard back. I'm just gonna have my buddy look at it on his lift and go from there. The vibration is from my rims (still have the oem 5 spoke chrome 1st gen) going bad. The mechanic told me the rims are hubcentric and the little ring that centers the rim on the hub is corroded, so my rims are not sitting on the hubs correctly. Funny the mechanic also told me my axle is not falling apart on me.
 
The best Ford trained mechanic I have found so far was in St. Louis 18-hours away. I'm thinking of just dropping the car off there and flying back in a week.

Pretty much had my fill of the dealers around here. This will be dealer #3 with no results other then I need new tires. Yeah... pretty sure their thought process goes "Vibrates at any speed --> Tires out of balance". I begged them to put the car on a lift, take the tires off, and get it spinning up to 75mph to see/feel the vibration. They all but out-right refused to do that. They told me about test drives, and a fancy NVH meter, and how experienced their janitor, err, shop manager was. Basically everything but the 1 empirical test that would prove it's the damn driveline! I even told them I would pay for an hour of shop time to put it up in the air!

All I got back was: Sorry, we don't really have the equipment to check or balance a drive shaft here, we can only replace it, so we aren't going to do that under warranty. !($(*%(^*@#$%^

Feel free to pile on. I'm going to grab another beer.
 
My dealership is the same way - just a bunch of certified retards running around with self importance issues.
 
Honest guys, a dealership's service is somewhat limited in what they can do because of mother Ford and their dealership liability and contract. Service writers can be limited by their knowledge and trying to pigeonhole an issue into the system.

Many times for things like what you are describing you are better off with an independent shop. There is a shop a few miles from me that is one of the very best I know for suspension, steering and tires. Plus about 100 ft down the road is a shop that only does driveshafts and u-joints. They build a lot of racing shafts for the local racers.

The big problem is finding an independent shop that is THAT GOOD. Those that are typically are in the same price range as dealers.

Plus I'm not sure how much Ford / Lincoln dealerships really want to work on the LS anymore. It's like owning a 6.0L diesel.
 
You are right but I don't agree with the idea that some dealerships don't want to work on the LS. First, I don't care if they do or they don't, they are paid to provide a service regardless of the car make/model. Second, my local dealer is CONSTANTLY sending me paper work and the service managers even call me personally to remind me that "I'm due for scheduled maintenance." They even send me emails with coupons. Third, with the economy the way it is, I would bet that people with cars that don't have a warranty aren't going to dealerships for maintenance. I would assume they are going to other (much cheaper) shops. Finally, I've had several compliments from both the service manager and the mechanics that work on my car - obviously that doesn't mean they love working on it, but they don't tell me to stop coming in.
 
I bought a 1993 Mercury Cougar V8 new, loved the car but the trans had problems. The dealer service manager told lie after lie, refused to fix the problem, called me to tell me it was fixed when he hadn't even touched it, ect. The trans would slip really badly when going around 45MPH with easy throttle. I think it was because I was military that he didn't want to mess with it because he figured if he held me off long enough I'd be transferred out and he'd not have to deal with it. Considering how many times I slammed him against the wall though (I was quite the hothead back then) you'd think he would have just fixed it. Because of my experiences with this guy (no idea which dealer, was in Rockville MD) I haven't bought a new Ford since 1993 and this LS is the first Ford I've owned new or used since 1993. Hey Ford, if you're monitoring this board, consider what crappy service after the sale costs you in lost business. Since that Cougar I've bought three other brand new cars, and never even looked at a Ford lot. I may never buy another new Ford because of my experience with that Mercury dealer, and even more importantly for Ford my kids do not consider Ford as a possible car to buy. My son drives a Lexus and my daughter drives a Chevy.

For the suspected driveshaft issues, a typical rebalancing costs around 100 bucks and takes 2-3 days if you pull the shaft and drop it off. I don't know if it's the same with Ford as with Chevy, but my driveshaft guy has told me before that the OEMs will get their yokes on close, but aren't concerned with getting them on correctly. He fixes many suspension vibration issues by cutting and reinstalling the yokes, then rebalancing the shaft.

A driveshaft vibration can also be caused by a cracked U-joint. If your U-joint is one with the grease zerk in the body, my experience (comes from full size Chevy trucks) has been to find cracks in the U-joint body starting at the zerk. I usually replace them with heavy duty 4x4 joints that have the zerk in an end cap instead of the body of the U-joint. That they are 4x4 joints doesn't matter, I use them in everything so long as I can get the correct size. They don't break nearly as easily as the standard duty ones.

Hope this helps.
 
TooManyToys said:
Many times for things like what you are describing you are better off with an independent shop. There is a shop a few miles from me that is one of the very best I know for suspension, steering and tires. Plus about 100 ft down the road is a shop that only does driveshafts and u-joints. They build a lot of racing shafts for the local racers.

The big problem is finding an independent shop that is THAT GOOD. Those that are typically are in the same price range as dealers.
Click to expand...

Performance Shaft Technologies is about 30 minutes away from me and will build me a 2-piece carbon fiber driveshaft to my liking for $1000. They'll to it in aluminum for about the same price as the OEM Ford unit. But if I am going that route I will just bump up my 8.8" conversion. It all somewhat defeats the purpose of buying the warranty though.

I would like to use the service that I paid for. That's all I want. And unfortunately the people who stand to benefit the most from that are standing in my way telling me they don't want to do the warranty work. It just does not make sense any way I look at it.
 
The reason for the perceived high labor costs is practically every shop uses "book time". Sometimes it works to the customer's advantage; the vast majority of time it doesn't.
 
I could see where book time could be used as an estimate but final charge should be what was actually spent whether over or under. Then again if a lot things were the way it should be, you'd still have people pissed on the other end of the spectrum.
 
This is somewhat disconcerning considering I just purchased a Ford ESP warranty last month.
I am just finishing my last warranty and it was incredible how easy and what it covered. It was NOT a Ford ESP warranty. I had all work done at Ford dealerships though.

I have had MOST typical LS issues covered and replaced (plastic cooling system parts, DCCV, COPS, etc.).

I purchased a Ford ESP because my LS is at 102,000 miles and I wanted to be covered for potential issues like: starter, alternator, timing chains, radiator, clock spring, etc. There is a good chance that I may not use the warranty at all as the most typical items have already been replaced.

With new car warranties, I figured the dealership had a lot of lattitude in determining the issue and the factory would just cover. With Ford ESP, is the factory presuring the dealership to avoid most claims?

Is it really 'easy' to stop an ESP warranty (payment terms) or even get a refund if I wanted to?
 
Book time.

If the mechanic is able to fix the issue less then the stated "book" time then we the customer doesn't want to pay book time. If the mechanic takes longer then book time due to broken bolts, studs, rounded off nuts, then we the customer want to pay only book time.

Years ago book time was somewhat generous and there were many mechanics who could get 60-70 hours when only working 35-40. Times have changed, and in fact just a few years ago there was quite a debate over at flatrate where the majority of mechanics were complaining that they could not make the wages they should be paid anymore due to the factories tightening down the warranty and therefore general flat rate times. I've worked in the auto business for 30 years and know of a lot of mechanics from all the manufacturer dealerships who have gone off to greener pastures.

Guys, I should have written my comment about dealerships now wanting to work on the cars differently. Not all feel that way. I don't visit different dealerships like I used to but in my smaller range I know of several that try to dissuade 6.0L owners from coming there and one where the service manager has said the LS (owners) complain a lot and pull the cars after diagnosis. I know he would rather not see them at the door. They don't care for a public debate in the store either.

A comment was made earlier about the hub bearing change. Ford used to do the hub only change-out, but warranty showed that some mechanics were creating a comeback issue due to poor installation and I know of one case where a vehicle had an in-service knuckle failure after repair. The Ford response to this type of situation is to sell only the entire knuckle assembly avoiding any installation issue. It's a risk management decision from their perspective for them and Ford's customer (the dealership).

We know there are aftermarket replacements for the bearing only, and independent shops and we the owner are more willing to change out the bearing only, and be more cost conscious doing it. When all inventories of knuckles are exhausted we will have to see if Ford lets the dealerships go the aftermarket repair or just tell the customer NPA.
 
Kumba,

Don't know if this will help but the guy I bought my car from when I lived in Clearwater said that my trans was replaced by Zeigler Trans in Oldsmar. He claimed that they were very good (I never used them) and looks like they do driveline work; if you decide to go the ISP route, here's their info:

http://www.zeiglertransmissions.com
 
voyeur said:
This is somewhat disconcerning considering I just purchased a Ford ESP warranty last month.
I am just finishing my last warranty and it was incredible how easy and what it covered. It was NOT a Ford ESP warranty. I had all work done at Ford dealerships though.

I have had MOST typical LS issues covered and replaced (plastic cooling system parts, DCCV, COPS, etc.).

I purchased a Ford ESP because my LS is at 102,000 miles and I wanted to be covered for potential issues like: starter, alternator, timing chains, radiator, clock spring, etc. There is a good chance that I may not use the warranty at all as the most typical items have already been replaced.

With new car warranties, I figured the dealership had a lot of lattitude in determining the issue and the factory would just cover. With Ford ESP, is the factory presuring the dealership to avoid most claims?

Is it really 'easy' to stop an ESP warranty (payment terms) or even get a refund if I wanted to?
Click to expand...

No idea, the terms will be in the contract. However, if you already have a good relationship with your dealer service department and they've been doing good work they will likely continue to do well for you. No guarantees though. You can discuss it with your service advisor, and you'll be able to tell by how he acts as to whether it will be a good plan for you.
 
I've had a bad experience with both Ford dealerships I've went to, long story short, we'll say poor customer service and the salesmen didn't care about my needs and wants and were only intent on selling me a car I didn't want.
 
on my first LS I had ford esp up to 100k and I never had a issue and with my new LS I have ford esp and I already had 2 claims on it on only 1 year since I had the car and still no issues. now I have the premium care one and so far in the last 8 years it has been hassle free. now I don't go to ford dealers I go straight to Lincoln for some reason I haven't taken any of my cars to a ford dealer.
 
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