hydraulic fan help!!!!!

C

cpgoodman

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scottsdale
01 LS V6 120000 miles

Im having issues with the fan not kicking on full speed. It sometimes spins real slow and sometime not at all. I replaced the actuator in it today and still no dice. Not sure where to go from here. Has anybody had to replace the fan itself? Everything i read is, its always the actuator.

Any help would be appreciated, im pretty frustrated at this point and cant figure out where to go from here.
 
Im not a Gen 1 owner but is the pump sup. fluid /presure? I think most original owners never bothered to check this system. L.O.M. = lack of maint.
 
Is the fluid new/clean and at the proper level. The system gets gummed up/sticky/fails after awhile. It also has to be bled after after you break the line.
 
yea, brand new synthetic ATF fluid just added. I drained the old stuff when i took the degas bottle off to change the actuator.

The fan spins freely by hand. Wouldnt it be seized up if the fan motor where bad?
 
cpgoodman said:
yea, brand new synthetic ATF fluid just added. I drained the old stuff when i took the degas bottle off to change the actuator.

The fan spins freely by hand. Wouldnt it be seized up if the fan motor where bad?
Click to expand...

No. If the seals in the motor are bad, or it the key in the motor has broken, it won't drive the fan. Of course, it could be the pump instead. Are you sure you got the air out when you refilled it?

Most dealers just cheat on this problem and replace both the fan motor and the pump, rather than figure out which one has failed.

What at all does the degas bottle (at the base of the windshield on the driver's side) have to do with working on the fan?

You do understand that the degas bottle has engine coolant in it? Are you confusing the hydraulic fan reservoir with the degas bottle?
 
You would have to tell if fluid/pressure is entering the fan. My guess would be that its not not. Is the actuator valve open? The fan will not spin till fluid flows from the actuator. If you disconnect the power conector to the actuator is there any change? You need to have the fluid flowing in a complete loop fo r the fan to spin.
 
What should the wires to the actuator meter? I'm assuming the voltage changes with rpms but I should still get a reading when I start the car.

Should the fan start spinning as soon as the car's started or is it triggered by a certain temp?

Is there a way to bleed a possible air bubble in the hydrualic cooling fan system. I think that could be a good start if there is. The thing looks like it wants to spin but just can't get going so a air bubble would make sense.

Is there a way to isolate whether its the pump or fan? Also I looked thru the manual but didn't see a fuse that's labeled hydraulic cooling fan/actuator. Does anybody know where this thing gets its power?

Sorry for all the questions,must hard to trouble shoot when I don't know what it should be doing.

Joe- I ment resiviour not degas bottle, sorry.
 
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The fan should spin anytime the engine is running. The PCM sends a PWM signal to the actuator to control the fan speed, but it can't turn it off completely.
The PCM alters the PWM signal based on the engine temperature and the needs of the air conditioning. You can't usefully verify the PWM signal without an oscilloscope.
One recommended way to get the air out of the system is to apply a vacuum to the fluid reservoir.
One way to see if the pump is circulating fluid would be to disconnect the return hose to the reservoir. Plug off the connection at the reservoir and add an extension to the return hose so that you hold it over the open reservoir. Start the engine and you should have a lot of fluid flowing out of the return hose and into the reservoir.
 
cpgoodman said:
What should the wires to the actuator meter? I'm assuming the voltage changes with rpms but I should still get a reading when I start the car.
Click to expand...

The green wire should be +12V when key is on. The black is a switched ground, so you can't measure it without a scope.

cpgoodman said:
Should the fan start spinning as soon as the car's started or is it triggered by a certain temp?
Click to expand...

It will, but very slowly. My favorite way to test is to start the car with the climate control off. Observe fan speed. Turn on A/C compressor. Fan should speed up noticeably (to about 40% of max). I'm not certain how to force an overheat situation with the hydraulic fan to get it to full speed.

Actually, I believe with the actuator unplugged should be full speed, and applying 12V to one pin and grounding the other should be minimum.


cpgoodman said:
Is there a way to isolate whether its the pump or fan? Also I looked thru the manual but didn't see a fuse that's labeled hydraulic cooling fan/actuator. Does anybody know where this thing gets its power?
Click to expand...

To really measure pressure would require some unique equipment.

Another possibility is the pump is gummed up in the passages around the actuator.

I have a spare pump in the attic (pulled working) and another hydraulic fan (also pulled working), and I won't pull money through your nose like the dealer and junk yards.
 
oddball said:
Actually, I believe with the actuator unplugged should be full speed, and applying 12V to one pin and grounding the other should be minimum.
Click to expand...

Just the opposite. While mine will not go into high when controlled by the computer I can force high speed by energizing the actuator in the pump. With 12 volts across the actuator (12 V to one pin and grounding the other pin) my fan will operate in high speed. With the actuator disconnected the fan spins slowly.
 
Ok here is where im at. I have 12 volts to the actuator, i even put 12volts to the old one and that worked too. So i took the reservoir off again and spun the fan by had. I can get fluid to come out the big hose when i spin it counter clockwise but noting comes out when i spin it clockwise. Should i have fluid flow both ways? If so im guessing its the fan motor?

Also, i but a shop vac on the reservoir fill hole for 2 minutes (car not running). I read on another post that would help pull the air out if there where any in there.

Thanks for all the responses.
 
Actually, the comment about using vacuum in the shop manual refers to using a vacuum pump, not a vacuum cleaner. A vacuum pump (even a hand operated one) will pull a much higher vacuum than a shop vac. (Not to say that a shop vac might not be enough.)

I would expect the fan to only dump fluid out the return hose when turned in one direction. The bigger question is what happens when you spin the pump?
 
oddball said:
The green wire should be +12V when key is on. The black is a switched ground, so you can't measure it without a scope.



It will, but very slowly. My favorite way to test is to start the car with the climate control off. Observe fan speed. Turn on A/C compressor. Fan should speed up noticeably (to about 40% of max). I'm not certain how to force an overheat situation with the hydraulic fan to get it to full speed.

Actually, I believe with the actuator unplugged should be full speed, and applying 12V to one pin and grounding the other should be minimum.




To really measure pressure would require some unique equipment.

Another possibility is the pump is gummed up in the passages around the actuator.

I have a spare pump in the attic (pulled working) and another hydraulic fan (also pulled working), and I won't pull money through your nose like the dealer and junk yards.
Click to expand...

Sorry , I know this is an old post , But at what point should a 2001 Lincoln ls hydraulic fan kick on to its high speed normally, if the car does not over heat will it kick to high? Or does it only kick on high when there's a problem? My fan turns on when the car is on, when the car overheated it sounded like a jet turbine , but since I replaced the coolant tank and bleed the system the fan stays at one speed and never kicks on to faster or higher speeds is this normal?
 
The very highest speed will normally only happen when the engine is starting to overheat.
If you start the car with the AC off, the fan should speed up enough to notice when your turn the AC on.
 
"High" is quite "high". High is like a tornado. It could push a small airboat. Your neighbors will call the police with a noise complaint. Small birds will get sucked into the grill.

With the A/C on, the minimum fan speed is ~40%. If A/C is off, then the fan can spin very, very slowly.
Fan speed increases once engine temp hits 230, with max speed coming in at 239. The engine should rapidly cool and the fan gradually slow back down. The PCM generally keeps the engine around 230. You need a code scanner that will show the engine temp to really know what's going on. The temp gauge really just shows "ok" or "not ok". The precise speed will vary based on speed of travel, outside temp, etc. There's some decent PID-control going on.

So, IOW, your setup is actually working properly. It is changing speeds, it's just not dramatic. If you want to test it, then in the morning, pop the hood and start the car with the A/C off. Enjoy the slow fan speed. Turn on A/C. Grin wickedly when noticing there's actually intelligent fan control going on.
 
Thanks oddball, I was just wondering about this last night. I was sitting watching my temp increasing & it got up to 237 so turned my air off & it dropped down to 230. I was wondering when the engine was getting too hot.I didn't know it might start over heating.

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Next time, don't turn off the A/C. If the temp gets over 245 then there's a problem. Getting over 230 in stop and go traffic on hot days is not surprising, but should not pass 239.
 
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