Handling

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mafioso

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I would like some suggestions as to how I can improve the handling of the car, I very foolishly took out my swaybar when I sectioned into the K member. are there any braces I can fab up on top or bottom to get some of the handling back,

Its not handling bad now Im striving for better.
 
I'm not quite sure what you're talking about... but, if you could supply me with a sketch of the front suspension geometry, I could try adding rigid members in SolidWorks then doing some rough simulations to see if they will bear any sort of load.

I have been thinking about doing this for some time now, seeing as I have all the necessary computational and design tools (Solidworks, Hypermesh and Abaqus for you engineering types). If someone familiar with the suspension could create a schematic, I could quickly replicate it, and then take suggestions about support/ brace location and analyze the implications before we spend real time fabricating and slapping braces which may or may not stiffen up our cars.
 
I can't think of anything better than fabbing up a swaybar (if you have to with your setup) or re-installing the swaybar. ..I don't think anything else with keep flex in conjunction side to side as well as a swaybar.

You can run k member-to frame (unibody) braces, but in the turns I think you would noticably still be lacking the benefits of a swaybar, especially low, since the pitch of the a-arms are further off center.

Maybe someone'll come up with a good idea. I'd be interested in what it'd be.. .. I just don't think there's a good alternative.
 
If you guys have specs on connectors I can help get them made for you, if you need it. I've got too many things at the moment to measure and draw them up myself.
 
I will be prototyping a new cup deisgn for the front end on my gen2. I made the dumbass mistake of thinking a 5 inch bag wouldnt work that it was too small to get alot of travel and I used a 6" bag The sway bar was in the way so we took it out, since I dont roadrace with it or take ubber highspeed turns.
 
luxuryrules said:
Yeah, getting the swaybar back in there would be the ideal solution, is that even a possibility at your current ride height?

If it's possible, and you go through the effort, get a stiffer one (obviously).

What about subframe connectors?
http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=108458&page=3
Click to expand...

..I don't know about that, I wouldn't want larger than factory in the front. The car understeered stock, and adding the larger rear bar balanced it out nicely. Adding a larger front bar would defeat any and all purpose of trying to make the car handle in a predictable manner.

Larger front bar=more understeer .. car will push when you lose control in a turn (federal safety bs so you plant your face into the air bag if you lose control)

Larger rear bar=more oversteer .. in the case of our cars, go with a larger rear bar and leave the front alone, shorten bolts and add a new swaybar kit, and the 'steer' balances out very well. Right now if I lost my car in a turn, I'd roll many many times. But chances of losing control are less because I got rid of any under or oversteer by balancing it out with a larger bar. If you have aftermarket front and rear bars, or stock front and rear bars, I guarantee you'll fall off the curve long before I will and at a much lower speed than I will, the upside, your face will be in the airbag if you do fall off.

A larger front bar in my opinion, is a waste of time and money.
 
An upgraded rear bar does wonders to the car, but a lot of guys have a tendancy to overdo the rear bar without having the front to balance it out. Having an inch and 3/8 rear with a stock front is a good way to dial in way too much understeer and amplify the mushiness in the steering.

My recommendation was on the assumption that the rear bar has been upgraded, but yes, otherwise you would be correct.
 
I have the 1 1/4" Addco bars front and back. I've wondered what it would be like with the 1 3/4" bar out back with the med sized front I have... I need to find someone to trade me for a week :)
 
luxuryrules said:
An upgraded rear bar does wonders to the car, but a lot of guys have a tendancy to overdo the rear bar without having the front to balance it out. Having an inch and 3/8 rear with a stock front is a good way to dial in way too much understeer and amplify the mushiness in the steering.

My recommendation was on the assumption that the rear bar has been upgraded, but yes, otherwise you would be correct.
Click to expand...

I don't think you understand correctly.

Larger rear bar, smaller front bar=oversteer , not understeer. Larger rear bar has nothing to do with 'mushiness in steering'..

putting a larger bar in back, is like driving on ice while adding 500 lbs to the trunk, slightly turning while on the gas. What's going to slide out first, front of car or rear? Rear!

Having a larger front bar is like doing the same with 500 lbs added to the very front of the car. What's going to slide out first, front of car or rear? Front!

Our cars, from the factory, act like there's 500 lbs on the front of the car.

Adding a large rear bar, and leaving the front alone, balances it out.
 
poniesviii said:
I don't think you understand correctly.
Click to expand...

I do understand correctly, and you do a great job of explaining it :) I just have a tendency to get oversteer and understeer mixed up, that's all. But I assure you, I follow you even if I get my semantics backwards. You aren't telling me anything I don't already know.

I'm saying that when people go too big with a rear bar, it will make the rear step out too soon, thus a mild upgrade to the front will balance it out.

Example: I have a 1-1/8" bar in the rear of my 96 and stock up front. It balances out perfectly, the rear end is very controllable but it still handles noticably better than stock.

When I was shopping for another one, I test drove a guy with a 1-3/8" bar in the rear and stock up front. Getting on that while going around a corner was dangerous - the rear stepped out without warning and very uncontrollably. In has case, a small upgrade to the front bar would have done the trick. Not a 1-3/8" front bar, but the next step up from stock, and that would have balanced it perfectly.

Again, I was assuming that there was already a rear bar upgrade done on the car in question, which was my mistake as I should have asked first.

Mushiness in steering: can't testify for a Mark VIII, but I can for a Cougar XR7 that there was less 'give' in the steering after he upgraded his front bar. Of course, he failed to consider all the stuff you just explained and had done a front bar the same size as the rear, and created too much understeer for himself. Ended up putting stock back on.
 
Ah. Well I agree with you too, too large of rear bar, might not be beneficial. It could be scary. If you do go with the largest addco rear bar, you might want to upgrade your front, but only a bit, the only a bit part, is just my best guess though.

I have larger rear bolts that are shortened -to level the bar out like it should be, since I'm lowered I had to do this .. .. and also ground down urethane bushings. My 1 1/8, (which is what I think I have) acts more like a larger bar because of this, .. if you throw in the largest bar, don't shorten your bolts, and use the pewny 3/8 or whatever bolts that are standard, it won't be as stiff as otherwise..

If you're wondering why I have larger bolts, I've driven the car hard enough to break 3 sets of grade 8's. :eek: Lol. And, I don't think it's a scary ride at all, with the stock front swaybar, and the (I think) 1&1/8 addco rear bar. I also wear very sticky 275 BFG's in back.
 
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