GOP attempts to BURN FREEDOM for political gain

[Calabrio]

Actually, you'd be amazed.

Visit almost ANY of the big leftist protests/rallyies/events, and you will see it there.

But you can go see it for yourself. Visit protestwarrior.com and watch some of the videos.

Here's an example:
Be prepared to be a bit shocked and disgusted though:
http://www.protestwarrior.com/videos/operation_wolverines.php
If you watch closely, I think you'll see Johnny in that video...

And I haven't actively argued the need for a constitutional ammendment yet. But a good point was made earlier, and maybe it is time we start actively protecting the traditions and values that made this country great. If we don't PROACTIVELY defend our institutions, they will be destroyed from the inside.

 

[pepperman]

Old glory still stirs Passiom, Shows Power to Unite as Well as Divide.

[URL="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,199418,00.html"]Old Glory stiil stirs Passion[/URL]

 

[TheDude]

I might protest against them, if I didn't have to work. That's exercising my freedom of speech also.

I don't advocate violence, your assertions to the contrary. I simply said watch what I do. You're projecting your own predilections onto me, which is your problem, not mine.

Like I said before, if you meant something else; whatever.

 

[TheDude]

So after having said all that, why would you begrudge the Congress for attempting to change the law?

Because a flag is just a piece of cloth (in my opinion), burning it doesn't burn away what it stands for. Take away the symbolism and you take away any power the @sshole burning the flag thinks he has. I do see flag burning as being a pathetically lame attempt to shock and get people in an uproar and I will not buy into it.

 

[TheDude]

Here are some guys in dirty pajamas burning the flag.

"Stupid as a stupid does."

Forrest Gump

 

[JohnnyBz00LS]

To which I will again reply with this:

I find it highly ironic that the only form of hate speach the left will defend is hate speach against thier own country. Any other form of hate speach gets no protections under the 1st amendment according to the left becasue it offends people.

:bsflag:

Prove it.

 

[JohnnyBz00LS]

I might protest against them, if I didn't have to work.

:bowrofl: :bowrofl: :bowrofl: :bowrofl:

What a COP-OUT!! You've just exposed yourself, now we ALL KNOW your blood runs YELLOW! :bowrofl: :bowrofl: :bowrofl:

Either that or you believe in what they stand for, which wouldn't be suprising either. :bowrofl:

 

[TheDude]

To which I will again reply with this:
Quote:
I find it highly ironic that the only form of hate speach the left will defend is hate speach against thier own country. Any other form of hate speach gets no protections under the 1st amendment according to the left becasue it offends people. Well burning the American flag offends people too. And I would guess it offends more than 2% of the population (which is the current estimate of the percentage of homosexuals in America).

This, like Abortion, should be a states rights issue. But the pipe dream of the founding fathers of a weak Federal government went up in smoke in 1861.

Actually, I would defend the rights of the KKK, ANF, Black Panthers, Nation of Islam etc. etc. to march and yell their rhetoric even though I do not agree with hate-mongering.


"I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend, to the death, your right to say it."

Quote often credited to Voltaire

 

[biglou71]

:bsflag:

Prove it.

Simple. Hate Crimes Legislation.

If I assault someone, I get a certian punishment.

But if I assault that same person, but while doing so drop a Nbomb on them, or call them a F@ggot, I get a worse punishment. This is clearly an abridgement of the 1st Amendment, and the Left loves it. Because it "offends" people.

Cant have it both ways lefties.

 

[biglou71]

Actually, I would defend the rights of the KKK, ANF, Black Panthers, Nation of Islam etc. etc. to march and yell their rhetoric even though I do not agree with hate-mongering.


"I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend, to the death, your right to say it."

Quote often credited to Voltaire

If that is your true point of view, then you are not as far to the left as many. I will support your freedom to burn the flag if you support the recall of hate crime legislation and McCain Feingold.

 

[TheDude]

Simple. Hate Crimes Legislation.

If I assault someone, I get a certian punishment.

But if I assault that same person, but while doing so drop a Nbomb on them, or call them a F@ggot, I get a worse punishment. This is clearly an abridgement of the 1st Amendment, and the Left loves it. Because it "offends" people.

Cant have it both ways lefties.

Your logic is flawed here... Assaulting and name calling are two entirely different animals. If you want to yell out something like "God hates f@gs!" by all means that is your right; I'd think you the fool for saying it, but I would not hold you back from doing so. But beating someone because you disapprove of their sexual orientation is not covered under the First Amendment.

Personally, I'd make all assaults even across the board (with the exception of children being assaulted), because when it comes down to it, does it matter if the person who just got their ass kicked was yelled at or not during the process? The outcome is still the same. Also, I firmly believe we need harsher punishments across the board, what we have now isn't deterring anyone. On the note of child molesters/abusers, those f@ckers should get capital punishment.

 

[biglou71]

Ahhh, I never said I was beatting him for being gay, or black. just that I might use an "offensive" term while doing it will get me the extra time in prison. It doesnt matter if I was doing it for the reason of them being black, jewish, gay, mormon, etc, it only matters that I used offensive terms while beating them down. And that is the problem, with "hate crimes".

BTW, I agree in child abusers, and punishments in general.

 

[MAC1]

Actually, you'd be amazed.

Visit almost ANY of the big leftist protests/rallyies/events, and you will see it there.

But you can go see it for yourself. Visit protestwarrior.com and watch some of the videos.

Here's an example:
Be prepared to be a bit shocked and disgusted though:
http://www.protestwarrior.com/videos/operation_wolverines.php
If you watch closely, I think you'll see Johnny in that video...

And I haven't actively argued the need for a constitutional ammendment yet. But a good point was made earlier, and maybe it is time we start actively protecting the traditions and values that made this country great. If we don't PROACTIVELY defend our institutions, they will be destroyed from the inside.

I checked out protestwarrior.com and it looks like a conservative site. I didn't see any images of flag burning. But I also didn't download any of the videos either because they are fairly large and they don't stream online--they have to be downloaded first. If you look at the mission statement it looks like a conservative site that crashes anti-war protests. I think even flag burning at anti-war protests is pretty rare.

 

[fossten]

Because a flag is just a piece of cloth (in my opinion), burning it doesn't burn away what it stands for. Take away the symbolism and you take away any power the @sshole burning the flag thinks he has. I do see flag burning as being a pathetically lame attempt to shock and get people in an uproar and I will not buy into it.

That's your problem. To you it's just "a flag." This isn't "a flag," it's "The Flag". You CAN'T take away the symbolism, even though YOU'D like to.

You have no passion for your country if seeing the American Flag burning doesn't affect you. You're not a patriot.

 

[Calabrio]

I checked out protestwarrior.com and it looks like a conservative site. I didn't see any images of flag burning. But I also didn't download any of the videos either because they are fairly large and they don't stream online--they have to be downloaded first. If you look at the mission statement it looks like a conservative site that crashes anti-war protests. I think even flag burning at anti-war protests is pretty rare.

Yes, it is absolutely a conservative sight, and an organization I'm a member of.

The videos are short, produced, movies document some of the large "operations" or counter-protests. It is absolutely stunning what goes on at those "rallies" and the Protest Warriors document much of the American-hate speach, flag disprespect, and hostility that is on display at those events.

I do recomend watching at least this video, it is very enlightening:
http://www.protestwarrior.com/videos/operation_wolverines.php

It says it has streaming video. But it's absolutely worth downloading at least the low-res version of the video.

 

[stang99x]

So you want a law that allows someone to 'beat the crap' out of someone else excercising their right to freedom of speech/expresion? Doesn't that sound a bit Draconian to you? Maybe a little reminescent of say the Nazi regime or Stalin Russia?

So long First Amendment, we didn't need you anyways.

I don't care what your ignorant unamerican mind can concoct to make you think its free speech, it crosses the line. You believe its ok to burn the symbol that gives you the right to express your opinion? Thats the most idiotic thing that anyone has ever argued for. Quite plainly, it labels you stupid. Remember what moma said, "stupid is as stupid does." Its like biting the hand that feeds you. You cannot justify to me how your right to free speech includes burning the symbol of the country whose constitution guarantee's said right. Talk about kick a gift horse in the mouth. The only time you ever see a burning american flag is in Iran, or Syria, or one of the other chitholes of the world to show complete and utter disrespect for our country. So you join the crowd and say its ok. Well, let me pass someone doing it, and they get a courtesy trip to Northside hospital where they may or may not recover from the wounds recieved from a Kershaw knife.

 

[TheDude]

That's your problem. To you it's just "a flag." This isn't "a flag," it's "The Flag". You CAN'T take away the symbolism, even though YOU'D like to.

You have no passion for your country if seeing the American Flag burning doesn't affect you. You're not a patriot.

*Grunt*Grunt*Beats Chest*Grunt*Grunt*

Whatever you say Mr. Perfect American.:monkey:

 

[TheDude]

I don't care what your ignorant unamerican mind can concoct to make you think its free speech, it crosses the line. You believe its ok to burn the symbol that gives you the right to express your opinion? Thats the most idiotic thing that anyone has ever argued for. Quite plainly, it labels you stupid. Remember what moma said, "stupid is as stupid does." Its like biting the hand that feeds you. You cannot justify to me how your right to free speech includes burning the symbol of the country whose constitution guarantee's said right. Talk about kick a gift horse in the mouth. The only time you ever see a burning american flag is in Iran, or Syria, or one of the other chitholes of the world to show complete and utter disrespect for our country. So you join the crowd and say its ok. Well, let me pass someone doing it, and they get a courtesy trip to Northside hospital where they may or may not recover from the wounds recieved from a Kershaw knife.

1) Fossten has copy writes to calling people in here 'un-American', be sure to pay him royalties.
2) I believe that burning a flag will not burn away what it stands for, simple as that.
3) That's the beauty of free speech and freedom, American's are allowed to dissent against the country. If we were to beat and jail someone who talked against the country we'd be no better than Stalin Russia, Nazi Germany, Saddam Iraq..... You accept some 'bad' for the greater 'good'.
4) Its 'Never look a gifted horse in the mouth' I believe.
5) Demonstrative flag burning's happen in America too (see Calabrio's post), not often, but sadly they do (unless done for the right reasons)
6) I would not join in on a flag burning, I think it's pathetic to do so, see my previous post on this thread.
7) Stab whomever you like and enjoy your prison sentence if you're caught.
8) Like Fossten, you'll just have to be content with sucking on your thumb until a law passes that say's 'Flag burning is NOT covered under the 1st Amendment.' Sorry.

 

[JohnnyBz00LS]

Simple. Hate Crimes Legislation.

If I assault someone, I get a certian punishment.

But if I assault that same person, but while doing so drop a Nbomb on them, or call them a F@ggot, I get a worse punishment. This is clearly an abridgement of the 1st Amendment, and the Left loves it. Because it "offends" people.

Cant have it both ways lefties.

Wrongo, as soon as you lay hands on someone, you are no longer "excersizing your right to free speech", you are commiting assault, a crime, to which you surrender certain other rights, like freedom from jail. Using "hate speech" during the comission of that crime elevates it, as it then belies the motivation behind it. Theres a BIG difference between "hate speech" and "hate crime. Free speech is protected as long as it doesn't get physical.

 

[biglou71]

Wrongo, as soon as you lay hands on someone, you are no longer "excersizing your right to free speech", you are commiting assault, a crime, to which you surrender certain other rights, like freedom from jail. Using "hate speech" during the comission of that crime elevates it, as it then belies the motivation behind it. Theres a BIG difference between "hate speech" and "hate crime. Free speech is protected as long as it doesn't get physical.

Really? So, you can see into my mind and heart and know my motivation for beating the crap out of someone? Calling someone a name while I am beating them has NOTHING to do with the motivation. DAMN. You lefties are something else.

Wow you libs are mind readers too???? Damn, too Clinton didnt Read Osama's mind back in 99.

 

[fossten]

4) Its 'Never look a gifted horse in the mouth' I believe.

:bowrofl: Actually, It's "Never look a gift horse in the mouth."

You are the last person that should be correcting people's posts.

 

[TheDude]

:bowrofl: Actually, It's "Never look a gift horse in the mouth."

You are the last person that should be correcting people's posts.

That's what you're left with? Pointing out my spelling errors?

The meaning of the quote still remains the same. Duh.

 

[fossten]

That's what you're left with? Pointing out my spelling errors?

The meaning of the quote still remains the same. Duh.

I'm not 'left with' that by any stretch. Pointing out your errors is a lazy snack for my brain. I can do it with my eyes closed.

Don't worry, there's much more I'll do to you before the weekend's over.

 

[TheDude]

I'm not 'left with' that by any stretch. Pointing out your errors is a lazy snack for my brain. I can do it with my eyes closed.

Ooohhh, I'm glad to hear I take up even minor precious moments of your cerebral functions... But, I am with 100% certainty that you cannot point out my spelling errors with closed eyes, you liar.

Don't worry, there's much more I'll do to you before the weekend's over.

Promise? Because so far this week you have called me a pacifict p*ssy, chickensh!t, ignorant, paranoid, un-patriotic and un-American. I await your retorts with bated breath.

 

[Calabrio]

...What would have happened to someone who tried to burn a flag in the street in 1944? Or 1954? Or 1912?

Disregarding the fact that it USED TO BE ILLEGAL, how would that person have been received?