Goodbye my lincoln

[Marcus101]

Decided to not spend $900 on rear axle suspension components and just upgrade to a 2014 kia optima SX turbo. Just gonna park the LSE (05) V8 and fix it up slowly over the years.


Thanks for all the help guys.

 

[tireman]

Hop on over to a junk yard to pick up those parts. They keep getting cheaper.

 

[joegr]

...to a 2014 kia optima SX turbo. ...

We replaced my daughter's totaled 325i with a 2012 Hyundai Sonata Turbo (2.0T). I was very surprised by the power and that it was smooth for a I4. That said, I just can't get past the FWD understeer and a few other little things. Still, much better car than I expected.

 

[lincoln_zero]

We replaced my daughter's totaled 325i with a 2012 Hyundai Sonata Turbo (2.0T). I was very surprised by the power and that it was smooth for a I4. That said, I just can't get past the FWD understeer and a few other little things. Still, much better car than I expected.

Currently driving a 2008 Nissan Altima 3.5 with CVT. Sure powers there, but rides like a cracker box. Whole car is cheep. Understeers almost as bad as the Acura TL 3.5 V6. Wait till that Hyundai ages. It'll feel more and more like a paper box, like my Altima has begun.
You cant top the DEW-98 unless you wanna drop some serious dough on a Merc or Jag.

Wifes 2014 300C AWD 5.7 Hemi Rides like a behemoth. IMHO, this is the best car to replace an LS with, if you're willing to shell out the cash. (I prefer RWD, got the AWD for her).

 

[1LoudLS]

OP: one word of caution with planning to work on the car over the years. parts are already starting to get hard to find for this car. that problem will only get worse over time.

You cant top the DEW-98 unless you wanna drop some serious dough on a Merc or Jag.

of course you can top it, its near a two decade old platform now, there are so many other platforms that are so much better.

Wifes 2014 300C AWD 5.7 Hemi Rides like a behemoth. IMHO, this is the best car to replace an LS with, if you're willing to shell out the cash. (I prefer RWD, got the AWD for her).

this is only the best car to replace the LS with if you don't care about handling and only care about room and comfort or enjoy visiting the dealer every other month for recalls and warranty work

 

[AmsterDutch]

Decided to not spend $900 on rear axle suspension components and just upgrade to a 2014 kia optima SX turbo. Just gonna park the LSE (05) V8 and fix it up slowly over the years.


Thanks for all the help guys.

I hate to admit this because I always looked at KIA Company as a fly by night type of business but after they came out with the Kia Stinger..( 0–60 mph. 4.4 sec. Horsepower. 365 hp. Top Speed. 167 mph.) The 2018 Kia Stinger GT is pretty impressive and really easy on the eyes ...still wanting to get around to taking her for a test drive and see what it can really do on the open road...wish you all the best with your new KIA and please keep us posted how it holds up after a few years ...thanks

 

[De-marko]

I agree, the stinger is a pretty cool car, I'm impressed by KIA. I've read up on one of the Stinger Forums and the owners all unanimously praise the car. Lots of aftermarket parts and tuning that are being developed are making it a rocket, curious to see how well they hold up.

 

[lincoln_zero]

of course you can top it, its near a two decade old platform now, there are so many other platforms that are so much better.

Two decade old yes. But I look at what it can do on the skid pad (corner). .84G with stock tires. And thats a first Gen '00. Second gens can do upward .87G
Sedans doing more than .85G are $30k+ and consider this, most are luxury. Even BMW's 335i F30 does .86G on the Skid, and thats a $50k+ car with M package.
DEW-98 Still better than Germany's under $100k sedans.

this is only the best car to replace the LS with if you don't care about handling and only care about room and comfort or enjoy visiting the dealer every other month for recalls and warranty work

True. Chrysler is unreliable. But doubtful the LS is MORE reliable than a 300c. Two decade old car right? ^.^
And the 300C Hemi does .87G on the skid pad. Look it up. We can talk handling when we beat .87G on a corner haha.

The numbers don't lie. So I say this in a very friendly way:
Numbers Talk. Bullsh*t Walks. =D

 

[1LoudLS]

yes, my 03 LS has been much more reliable than either of my dads FCA embarrassments. the only problems I have had with my LS was needing coils (covered under warranty @ 80k miles) again at about 120k due to water getting in the wells and damaging them, a full coolant system replacement at 130-140k (falls under maintenance) and rear suspension parts about the same time (again basic maintenance) and coils again @ 150 when the cheap amazon specials failed.

my dads 2015 charger had 4 recalls, and needed its ball joints replaced at 30k miles (likely due to the heavy ass 20" wheels they all come with). his 14 ram is up to 7 recalls I think, has been to the dealer 4 times to get stuff repaired. the awesome shifter dial at least once a month wont shift the gears when you give it a spin causing you to have to turn the car off and back on a couple of time until it starts to work again (dealer doesn't believe us that this is happening) both of them brand new cars and have had more problems that my car has had in over 4 times the amount of miles.



you're talking about comparing only one metric and it just happens to be the only one the LS wins at. while the big circle skid pad may get a good rating in the FCA boats, the game changes when you take it out on a slalom or road course when you go from turning one way directly to turning the other way, the heavy body weight (over two full tons) and body roll really come into play.

why don't we compare the 300c's skidpad to some of its competition... while I almost applaud its .87 skidpad rating, it just happens to be the exact same as my FWD Focus (.87) and only a hair better than a FWD biased taurus (.86) the exact same as a FWD toyota camery (.87), it is better(barely) than a FWD mazda 6 & ford fusion at .84 each, and that is just how good it is compared to FRONT WHEEL DRIVE cars! why don't we take a look at some other cars. it matches a basic 5 series and gets smoked by a M5 (.98), and it falls short of a standard BMW 328i at .93(a M3 sets it at a blistering .98) hell its not anywhere near a Chevy SS's crazy good .96 lateral Gs... (which is probably its closest competition)

to get a better idea of how it stacks up against its own competition, lets look at its slightly short brother the challenger, yes it does get a .90... but then for less than a charger RT, you can get a v6 camaro 1LE that gets .98 or a mustang GT that gets .96. even if you take their bad ass hellcat that gets .90, compaired to a GT350 that gets 1.10, or a SS1LE gets 1.05, or a ZL1 1LE gets 1.18 a base corvette gets 1.03, a grand sport gets 1.13

so after following your advice and "looking it up", sorry if I am not impressed with how well the old LS or any FCA boats can corner compared with what cars that are available now... there is a reason that you dont ever see them at Autocross events. How did that saying go, numbers talk? well those numbers are talking louder than the drunk guy at the end of the bar!


*all car's data was pulled from the same place, Car&Driver

 

[lincoln_zero]

so after following your advice and "looking it up", sorry if I am not impressed with how well the old LS or any FCA boats can corner compared with what cars that are available now... there is a reason that you dont ever see them at Autocross events. How did that saying go, numbers talk? well those numbers are talking louder than the drunk guy at the end of the bar!
*all car's data was pulled from the same place, Car&Driver

Bruh
What you said is true.

But a few things to point out:

Skid Pad tests are lateral acceleration around a circle. The vehicle is continued to accelerate until traction is broken. TIRES play a huge role here.

Most of the vehicles you listed that break .85g, are the premium model of their respective class. Base model Focus SE from 2013 scores .83g
FWD cars have been able to hit those numbers before. The 2008 Acura TL-S was able to achieve .93g
But considering the Nissan GTR from 2015 hits .95g, And this car set Nurbergring records, you have to look at the models an the tires.

That 2018 Mustang GT is rocking wider tires and Pirelli P Zero summer tires.

In contrast, the LS tested by Car and Driver used low end Michelin tires. The 2003 tested used Michelin Pilot HX MXM4, which are rated poorly. They're all seasons.

Car and driver had this to say:
"Although it was wearing all-weather tires, usually thought to be a disadvantage, it outran all but the Benz on the skidpad and topped all in the lane-change test"
2003 Lincoln LS V-8

.84g with All seasons from 2 decades ago. Dude.
Put some Pirelli P Zero's and do a skid test on the LS. Widen them up to 245/45R17. I'd bet my left nut your LS will break .90g

DEW-98 > German under $100k cars.

 

[lincoln_zero]

Just to reiterate my point, lets use the Acura TL 3RD Gen as an exmaple (2004 - 2008 models):

Both the TL Base (3.2L) and the TL-S (3.5L) use 235/45/R17 Tires.

-The base 2007 Acura switched to Michelin Pilot All weather MXM4. 2004 base model (using Bridgestone all season Turanzas) tested does 0.81 g
-The 2008 "Type S" uses Bridgestone Potenzas Summers and puts down 0.93g

Obviously the Type-S has a sportier tuned suspension i.e. stiffer shocks, but the 0.12g difference is astounding.
Same Generation, same tire width and height. Better tires and slight suspension tune.

You can run stiffer shocks on your LS and some nice Pirelli P Zero's and your .84g will likely go to .94

So while I did say Numbers talk and bullsh*t walks, (and I stand by that), you should factor in the age and quality of the tire on skid pads, especially for a car tested 2 decades ago with low quality all weather tires...

 

[1LoudLS]

and where does the LS's, Type S's, or 300C's Nurbergring time fall? probably no where near that record setting GTR's time, also even with the best tires out there would not stack up well against other platforms available today. I still stand by that statement

yeah the LS was pretty sweet sh!t while it was still current and out back 15 years ago and it may have been ahead of its time (at least for a FoMoCo product) but everything else has got so much better over the years (hell a Jaguar XF S AWD still only manages the same .87g). saying that you cant top the DEW98 platform with out dropping some serious money just doesn't hold water when there are platfors that will beat the LS in every single metric you can throw at it. whether its road holding ability, handling, power, ride comfort, quality of materials, or just good old reliability even when looking at cars that cost the exact same price new (NOT accounting for inflation)

bottom line, the 300/charger/challenger is a nice comfortable car great for road trips with the family or quickly going fast in a straight line and the LS was a good value back in the day but that is it. I would have to question the sanity of anybody that would walk into a dealer today that had a brand new, never sold or driven 2006 LS for $40k+ compared to what else is out there as it is quite dated and falls short of a lot of other cars, many of which fall into the same price bracket.

now if you want to compare it to other cars that can be bought for $2k-$4k, then it may be hard to find as good of a car for the same price.

 

[lincoln_zero]

To an extent, I agree. The DEW would need some modifications.

But you are being way overly generous to a lot of vehicles. Even @.84g, as I pointed out, the Focus which is 2013 and has a smaller wheel base, fails to crack .84g.
Of course there's gonna be cars to hit .90 and up. But what about those that don't a.k.a vast majority? BMW's 2013 FX30 335i does .86g and that car with M package is almost twice a base sport LS in price, and 13 years newer than an '00.

Case and point here is that anything between .85g and .95g is admirable. And with basic spring+ shock + and tire width + better tire mods, you can bring that LS to .90g and put it right up there with $60k american cars, and beating out 5 year old Premium German cars.
Your cost in parts is up to you - how much time to invest and willingness to dig for deals.

One could argue that upgrading an older car is a waste of money.
One could also argue new car depreciation is even more of a waste of money.

At the end of the day, the DEW-98 Stock holds out with mid range vehicle models. And with a few mods, it contends with premium models.
For a car that costs $5k used with low mileage, I call that excellent aging.

 

[AmsterDutch]

" now if you want to compare it to other cars that can be bought for $2k-$4k, then it may be hard to find as good of a car for the same price. " End quote
1LoudLS said
I couldn't agree more ...I wanted a car to get from point A to Point B I placed a $1000 cap on myself and nothing could compare to the LS for $1000 dollars

 

[1LoudLS]

well at least for a couple of weeks... most 1k LSs out there will need a lot of work and money to get back to a reasonable level(if they were in good condition, they would sell for a lot more...), and more and more parts to keep it in good condition are becoming harder and harder to get. take shocks for example, OEMs are near impossible to get and most of what else out there that is available is junk and would destroy the handling of this car. if I had to put a 1k cap on me buying a car, the LS would be the last thing I would look at, honestly at 1k, the only things I would consider would be a civic, cavalier, or chevy truck. that way if something does break, it can usually be fixed with pocket change

To be dead honest, I've seen a lot of $1k-$2k LSs come through my shop, and I wouldn't feel safe to drive in any of them... SRS lights, ABS lights, weaving back ends, popping noises coming from the driveshaft...

...and put it right up there with $60k american cars, and beating out 5 year old Premium German cars.

lol, again, in one single metric... and all of those 60k american cars (and even all of their 35k versions) would just embarrass even a highly modified LS in all the rest of the metrics, let alone when you combine metrics and put them head to head against each other

 

[lincoln_zero]

I would agree that for $1k the LS is not ideal. If thats your budget, look elsewhere. Eibach springs wouldn't destroy the handling. I personally took a ride in SPSully's highly modified LS, and that thing drove 10X better than my Stock LS. So to each their own. Some people want comfort ride, others want a sport tuned ride, of the same car.

lol, again, in one single metric...

Right.
-I sold chevy cars at a GM dealer in late 2015. Mailbu, Impala, Equinox, Terrain, Silverado, Sierra, at their base have less features than a spot LS from 2003. Hell I sold a Buick Verano base that had half the features.
-Went to Chrysler last year, saw a base charger. No motorized seat to speak of... no sunroof...
-Went to Nissan sat in base Altima. Nice seat warmer, but no Vent seat. Cloth. No sunroof. No motor seats. Yuck.
-What about VW? Sat in audi's from 2015 with less features than a 00 LS. Jetta is piss poor for features.

Lets talk HP.
Base Altima sits at a lovely 179Hp ... LOL
Base Charger has 292 HP, 12 more than the LS. But 260 lbs torque, 28 less than LS. Charger is actually slower.
Base Malibu has 163 HP
Base Impala has 196 HP
Base Camry (2018 MSRP $27,000 CAD) has 203 HP
Base Jetta has 150 HP

So LS has more HP, More features, and drives better than base models of $25k sedans.

But you said "$35k". Correct. You need to buy premium versions of 2018 sedans to nudge out a second gen LS. And their "Better driving" is still debatable. Most of those cars are FWD cracker boxes.
Drive an Altima or Camry, they feel cheap. I OWN an Altima right now. 2008 3.5 CVT. Cheap.

and all of those 60k american cars (and even all of their 35k versions) would just embarrass even a highly modified LS in all the rest of the metrics

Car Photos and Video - 900Hp Lincoln Ls Car Photos And Video | Revvolution | Revvolution Revvboards Sharing Automotive Media

Not sure what your definition is of "highly" modified. But click that link to see a highly modified LS.
Intake and tunes dont make you highly modified.

 

[1LoudLS]

I guess if you take the top optioned luxury car and compare it to everybody's base car, then yeah. of course it would fair well in features. doesn't change the fact that there are so many better, nicer, way more featured platforms available today... It was a great car, it just doesn't stack up with whats available today (unless you count it own current brand)

And definitely es, I guess if you can find the one blank check race car built, it probably could run well with whats available today.

But then if you have to replace the entire drivetrain, and lose every single comfort that getting a luxury car would provide, you know what makes it, it. Then was it really that good of a platform to start with?


I will say this, I've said from the very beginning that if the LS would have been built around an Aluminator/Ternimator and a T56 combo, then it would have been hands down the best car (IMHO) available at the time, with little money and effort it would run circles around even a V of its time...

 

[lincoln_zero]

there are so many better, nicer, way more featured platforms available today...

Well of course. Im 100% on board with what you wrote.. But you're not getting "Better, nicer, way more features" for under $35 thousand dollars, and it's 2018. 18 years after the launch of 00 LS, which at its time, the V8 had an msrp of $35,290. By 18 years inflation, would be about $48,317 today.

So $48,000 can get you a very nice car. And that seems right on the money to have a vehicle thats: better, nicer, and has more features than an LS.
$45k+ cars are: SRT Charger, 300c 5.7, Infiniti Q50, MKZ, IS300, ATS, Audi A5, 330i

BMW base msrp 330i (msrp $45,900 CAD) is a nice car, but it actually doesn't outperform an LS. Interestingly, it loses to the LS in HP, features, and skid pad at best was .86g, achieved from having better (stock) tires than a 18 year old LS. I can get .86g (from .84g) on any stock LS just by changing the tires. BMW 330i is a cheap piece of stale sauerkraut.
Base model lacks heated seats, Vented seats, perforated seats (for that back sweat ), leather, sunroof, driver lumbar, passenger lumbar, sport transmission, Rain sensors, motorized pedals- All standard features on (some) V8 sport LS.
To add those features in, and have more HP, you need a 335i and you're coming in at $70,000.. .... ....

All I'm saying is, some of these features will most likely always be optional. Cause what else really makes a luxury car... luxury? When they fly themselves and make you breakfast?

 

[lincoln_zero]

BTW, I've been in Mercedes that have back messagers, ride height adjusters and even a seat belt tightener. $100k car, but damn .. nice car lol Puts anything $48k to shame.

But then if you have to replace the entire drivetrain, and lose every single comfort that getting a luxury car would provide, you know what makes it, it. Then was it really that good of a platform to start with?

This is where you kinda need to take a step back and be a little open minded.
Some people will buy very high end cars, and mod the living crap out of them. They got the cash$$ and they make it a hobby. 1200HP Nissan GTR, 2300HP Ford GT... and a 900HP Lincoln LS LMAO
Others love stock cars for what they are - intended to be.
I do respect everyones view on cars, except for rice burners. Those piece of sh*t Honda civics that are horridly modified, sound awful, and drive like assholes. I have zero respect for their car and their attitude.

 

[joegr]

... which at its time, the V8 had an msrp of $35,290. ...

Must have been a stripped 00 you were looking at. Both of mine were MSRP well above that, with the actual sales price being a bit over your figure.

The BMW 3 series does not compare to the LS. The 5 series was the target competition, and was available at the time at a similar, but slightly higher price.

 

[lincoln_zero]

Must have been a stripped 00 you were looking at. Both of mine were MSRP well above that, with the actual sales price being a bit over your figure.

The MSRP actually changes around a lot for the V8 entry.

Wiki and Autotrader list msrp prices for V8 Entry LS as:
2000 - $35,290
2001 - $36,320
2002 - $37,495
2003 - $40,220
2004 - $39,970
2005 - $40,190
2006 - $39,285

2005 Lincoln LS - Autotrader

Gen 2 got a price hike, I think that's why you remember paying more.

But can we take a moment and appreciate that the 2000 LS was $35k? And you got wiper heater, rain sensor, 252HP V8. Yumm
My uncle had one. It drove really soft, and you felt the luxury.

 

[joegr]

Again, must be base models. My 06 (premium sport with safety package and memory pedals) was 48K or so. Your price for the 04 does pretty much match my 04 (just a sport).

A 2000 BMW 540i was $38,900–$40,700, so not that much more than an LS.

 

[lincoln_zero]

Oh yeah totally base model. I don't know much more about the packages or what makes an LS go up to $60k. But I did find this ad on kijiji:

This lad got bought the premium LS for $60,165 (w/tax).

Beauty.
2004 Lincoln LSE | Cars & Trucks | Chatham-Kent | Kijiji

Yeah the LS went against the 540. But with price inflation, the 3 series base msrp right now is what a base 00' LSV8 $35,000 msrp would be today with price inflation.
I guess BMW is price hiking.

 

[joegr]

Yeah, the dealer for the 06 that i bought tried to add enough crap to the sticker to bring it to $50K. It was easy enough to knock that $2K off of the price.

If the LS was still around today and on its 4th generation, it would likely be the same price as the 5 series is now. Look at the pricing for the Continental.

 

[lincoln_zero]

The LS in a 4th Gen? Omg... imagine how sexy and awesome and.. sexy and amazing.. and sexy it would be.
Probably be rocking a 5.0 Cayote and 2.3L Ecoboost.

I'd get the cayote

It actually kills me on the inside (and I'm not saying that lightly) that Ford wont bring this car back. Cadillac is sitting here with a CTS-V laughing at Ford.

Like it legit angers me the LS isn't brought back.
Mark my words here today joegr. If Ford ever brings back a RWD LS, and I mean properly brings it back (not an MKZ re badge) I mean top notch suspension and 5.0 Cayote.... i'll be financing one 1 year old.