Gen 2 motor in a Gen 1

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LSsport

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Hey everyone,

I am failry new to the forum but long time LS owner. I have a 2001 LS V8 Sport. My issue it that the engine is lkosing compression in 2 cylinders. I was told by two shops that the motor needed to be swapped out. I thought a rebuild kit would be a great option since the car is still in very good shape. But as most of you know the kit does not exist. My next option was is to buy a used engine. What I want to know is if a Gen 2 motor can be used in place of the Gen one? I know the heads and plenum are different but not sure if I need to also change the computer or have the current one flashed? I also wonder if I can use some of the Gen 1 parts on the Gen 2 motor? I am thinking it will work as I see a ton of other people do a similar transplant with the Ford Contour SVT motor. Any info anyone has would be helpful. I really just don't want to see the car die. I have had it since it had only 23K miles back in 2004.
 
why not just buy an already pulled gen 1 motor, do some refreshing on it, then drop it in ?
gen 2 runs a different ecm, and other wiring is different from a data feed standpoint, so your
in for a bit more work than getting a gen 1 drop in.
 
The biggest reason is that the Gen 2 motors are easier to find with under 100k on them. By refreshing it what do you mean? Timing chain tensioners, Coils and new water pump? I really would like to use just the heads and short block or if I can use just the short block, get my heads machined and use everything else from the Gen 1 motor. Of course if I can use the newer heads that would be great. But like you say the ECm is going to present some challenges.
 
The most practical way to put a gen II V8 in a gen I LS, is to trade your gen I for a gen II. The gen II V8 has variable valve timing. The gen I PCM can't deal with that, and the gen II PCM won't talk to the other electronics in your gen I car.
 
The Gen 2 shouldn't have a tensioner problem. Late 02s (~Sept 02) shouldn't have an issue either. The updated part was used by that point.
 
LSFrank said:
... Like many Gen 2 owners.
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Are we sure we aren't dealing with this guy from the FB page?

image.jpg

image.jpg
 
Izzy, that's be absurd. To say you did something crazy, be refuted by people who know what they're talking about and frequently link to LvC, then to ask LvC about doing it???
 
LSFrank said:
Izzy, that's be absurd. To say you did something crazy, be refuted by people who know what they're talking about and frequently link to LvC, then to ask LvC about doing it???
Click to expand...

Stranger things have happened. Especially with that guy being so adamant about the swap.
 
we can edit our posts to tell him that it's a no issue, gen 1 and 2 engines are fully
compatible.
 
Hard parts don't know whether they're Is or IIs. It will take some degree of parts swapping to be able to use the later long block but it's eminently do-able. The VVT is powered by oil pressure and therefore will require some gallery plugging to lock it out. Matching the early wire loom to the later engine will require a bit of careful attention. But most of the input points---sensors, etc---are the same.

Doing the swap might not be a weekend project but it's much easier than using a 4.6 four-cam or the abortion of installing a chibrolet LS.

KS

I've said here before that anything CAN be put in anything. Long ago I knew a guy who put the engine from a P-51 fighter plane in his Model 'A' sedan. The engine took up most of the interior.:)
 
This is what I am looking for. If the new block is different then there is no sense in trying to use the newer block with the older heads. I am not adament about doing the swap just want someone to chime in that has seen both longblocks and can speak to there differences. Its not just the VT heads and a plenum difference I am sure. I mean this motor has several applications beyond the LS and the S-Type. The engine family consists of everything from a 3.2 L to a 5.0 L. From my understanding the block, crank and connecting rods are the same. There are other parts that are shared among the engine family, I just do not know what they are. I guess what I should do it study a breakdown of the two engines and see all the parts in common. Thanks for the help. I will be happy to share what I find I am sure others will find it informative.
 
LSsport said:
This is what I am looking for. If the new block is different then there is no sense in trying to use the newer block with the older heads. I am not adament about doing the swap just want someone to chime in that has seen both longblocks and can speak to there differences. Its not just the VT heads and a plenum difference I am sure. I mean this motor has several applications beyond the LS and the S-Type. The engine family consists of everything from a 3.2 L to a 5.0 L. From my understanding the block, crank and connecting rods are the same. There are other parts that are shared among the engine family, I just do not know what they are. I guess what I should do it study a breakdown of the two engines and see all the parts in common. Thanks for the help. I will be happy to share what I find I am sure others will find it informative.
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I'm pretty sure the LS/S-Type engines are unique to those two models; ergo the models demise......
 
LS4me said:
I'm pretty sure the LS/S-Type engines are unique to those two models; ergo the models demise......
Click to expand...

And 02+ Thunderbird

The AJ-series lives on. Started in 96. Currently available as a 5.0L (AJ-133) in pretty much the entire Jag lineup.

Ford used the AJ30/AJ35 (non variable timing/variable)

Jag S-Type used the AJ26 (4.0L), then AJ33 and AJ34 (4.2L) from 2003+. The 4.2L came in the S-type, XK, XJ, and XF

Basically all 2009+ V8 models could come with the 5.0L AJ133

Or for a relatively more reliable source, the Wikipedia page from which I got all this...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaguar_AJ-V8_engine
 
I thought that the timing chains were different in the 5.0, which should make the block different.
 
I have a small host of interior parts that came from the stores crib of the last Jag racing effort. They were offered to me as being replacements to go into my 4 litre AJ 27. At least looks-wise they are dimensionally identical to the Lincoln stuff I have.

KS
 
I think the only difference between the gen1 and gen2 bottom end is the oil pump used and some of the oil routing for the VVT. Like cammerfe said, you could use a Gen2 bottom end with a gen1 oil pump and maybe some restrictor plugs for the top end.

Like others have said, you are better off getting a Gen1 long block and rebuilding the top end. That way you can check the cylinders for wear and make sure the rest of it is as fresh as it's going to get. Going into the bottom end on an LS engine is a wholye pandora's box no one has quite mastered.

If I actually do end up rebuilding my Gen2 I'll be using a 4.2L Jag bottom-end with the 3.9L top end. For a Gen1 I'd try using the 4.0L Jag bottom end with the 3.9L Gen1 top end.
 
joegr said:
There are two different gen I oil pumps.
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Ohh yeah. Wasn't the oddball pump only used for the early 2000 model run? it was like 3 instead of 4 bolts or something.
 
Kumba said:
I think the only difference between the gen1 and gen2 bottom end is the oil pump used and some of the oil routing for the VVT. Like cammerfe said, you could use a Gen2 bottom end with a gen1 oil pump and maybe some restrictor plugs for the top end.

Like others have said, you are better off getting a Gen1 long block and rebuilding the top end. That way you can check the cylinders for wear and make sure the rest of it is as fresh as it's going to get. Going into the bottom end on an LS engine is a wholye pandora's box no one has quite mastered.

If I actually do end up rebuilding my Gen2 I'll be using a 4.2L Jag bottom-end with the 3.9L top end. For a Gen1 I'd try using the 4.0L Jag bottom end with the 3.9L Gen1 top end.
Click to expand...

That is a great suggestion. At least it might give me a few more options for a short block. I would love to just rebuild the whole thing but parts are impossible to find. Heck I would settle for a Gen 1 motor with under 60K miles. Thanks for all the feedback. Hopefully, someone will have done a swap of some sort and can offer suggestions. Gen 1 to Gen1 or Gen 2 to Gen2.
 
LS4me said:
I'm pretty sure the LS/S-Type engines are unique to those two models; ergo the models demise......
Click to expand...

Actually the demise was the recession, the desire for people to drive 4 bangers (this one I do not get, other than cost of gas) and the sale of the Jaguar and Land Rover line from which the AJ30 and AJ35 came from. It is a shame, ford should have used their own ford family of motors. I do not think they foresaw having to sell off the other two brands.
 
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