Finally, a ricer in touch with reality.

[Calabrio]

Still not running away with anything.

I wouldn't drive one of those ever.

4.77 final drive ratio on the civic, jeez.

Yeah, with an 8000 rpm redline and a six speed manual transmission. And with the 4.77 final drive, it still is rated for 32mpg on the highway. The regular Civic, with the 1.8, gets an incredibly 40 mpg but has much more modest performance numbers!

I always find it interesting, these threads always start "X car would spank the Civic Si." Then by the end it's "Well, it's not much faster, and the X car could win if this,very specific situation."

The Civic Si out performs or matches the performance in every category. As it should, it's a sport tuned car with a performance Honda engine.

 

[02LSE96LSC91SE84TC]

Yeah, with an 8000 rpm redline and a six speed manual transmission. And with the 4.77 final drive, it still is rated for 32mpg on the highway. The regular Civic, with the 1.8, gets an incredibly 40 mpg but has much more modest performance numbers!

I always find it interesting, these threads always start "X car would spank the Civic Si." Then by the end it's "Well, it's not much faster, and the X car could win if this,very specific situation."

The Civic Si out performs or matches the performance in every category. As it should, it's a sport tuned car with a performance Honda engine.

Excuse me! I never said anything would spank anything. I said it wasn't running away with sh1t. Futher more I never said it was faster at all, I based a opinion based on numbers you provided which showed it. Marks run faster than they are listed as running, but I didn't go there. 40mpg whippie, the thing weighs squat.

I find it interesting someone would be stupid enough to compare the 2 cars.

Why don't you buy one if they're so great, they're cheap.

 

[98LSC32V]

My bone stock 96 Mark VIII ran 14.93 at 95.79mph in drive and I would bet would spank any stock Civic SI in the 1/4 mile since cars typically run slower at my track than what magazines claim.

 

[Calabrio]

My bone stock 96 Mark VIII ran 14.93 at 95.79mph in drive and I would bet would spank any stock Civic SI in the 1/4 mile since cars typically run slower at my track than what magazines claim.

So, the Mark VIII "typically" is also slower than what the magazine claims too?

 

[Calabrio]

Excuse me! I never said anything would spank anything. I said it wasn't running away with sh1t

You started out implying that the Mark might loose off the line, but would make up for it at higher speeds. And then I showed you the numbers that said that wasn't the case.

And that's in a straight line. The Si will certainly out corner and outstop the Mark VIII.

Futher more I never said it was faster at all, I based a opinion based on numbers you provided which showed it. Marks run faster than they are listed as running, but I didn't go there.

I posted a picture of the magazine. The 0-100 number was inconsistant primarily because I posted the best 1/4 mile time, with a different 0-100 time.

40mpg whippie, the thing weighs squat.

It's actually a well proportioned and safe car. But with that said, that's not just high mpg, that' ridiculously high. That's class leading. It's like 8mpg more than a Mazda 3. That's superb.

And they still get 32mpg out of the Si.

You might not care about gas mileage, but that's really quite a feat of engineering.

And with that said, I am considering buying one. If it had a 3 or 5 door model, it'd be a lock.

I find it interesting someone would be stupid enough to compare the 2 cars.

I find it interesting some dumbass like yourself, would continue to try to argue a losing point. But I guess it makes more sense to compare it to a Chevy Cobalt on the Lincoln VS. Cadillac forum?

If you're going to belittle the performance of the car, which is the tendency on the sight, at least know that even the Mark VIII won't spank it in a race anymore. The older ones, the Mark would win in a straight line, not any longer.

Why don't you buy one if they're so great, they're cheap.

I very well might.

 

[MediumD]

I find it interesting some dumbass like yourself,

You're the dumbass who won't admit any Mark VIIIs are good for 14.9s stock, which obviously they are, and thinks a Civic SI which reportedly runs 14.9s will somehow walk the :q:q:q:q out of a Mark from any speed.

Plus, that SI doesn't even handle particularly well, .87g vs .84 for an LSC.

 

[Moes8]

i was just reading about the si on the civic forums,most of them dont get over 26-27 mpg with there si's a few claim 30+.several guys on there with base civic lx's say they cant even get what the si is getting (26-27mpg)

i guess 6th gear at 60mph might get you 30mpg,but in the real world people drive faster and i am guessing 70-75 mph in that civic really brings the rpm's up to an inefficient rpm.

seriously,do you even care to guess what a mark viii would get mpg wise if you dropped 1500 lbs off of it .LOL,that is a huge difference,

i know 1/4 mile would be under 13 seconds,i bet city mpg would be 24+,highway 30+ for sure,since they do that already.

but stock for stock the si will run with/outrun slightly our big luxo tanks,but i will stay in my mark,i love it too much.
i sure would like a six speed in my mark though

 

[02LSE96LSC91SE84TC]

You started out implying that the Mark might loose off the line, but would make up for it at higher speeds. And then I showed you the numbers that said that wasn't the case.

And that's in a straight line. The Si will certainly out corner and outstop the Mark VIII.



I posted a picture of the magazine. The 0-100 number was inconsistant primarily because I posted the best 1/4 mile time, with a different 0-100 time.


It's actually a well proportioned and safe car. But with that said, that's not just high mpg, that' ridiculously high. That's class leading. It's like 8mpg more than a Mazda 3. That's superb.

And they still get 32mpg out of the Si.

You might not care about gas mileage, but that's really quite a feat of engineering.

And with that said, I am considering buying one. If it had a 3 or 5 door model, it'd be a lock.


I find it interesting some dumbass like yourself, would continue to try to argue a losing point. But I guess it makes more sense to compare it to a Chevy Cobalt on the Lincoln VS. Cadillac forum?

If you're going to belittle the performance of the car, which is the tendency on the sight, at least know that even the Mark VIII won't spank it in a race anymore. The older ones, the Mark would win in a straight line, not any longer.



I very well might.

So by YOU telling me its a loosing point I'm a dumbass. OK, that makes sense.

I said the MarkVIII has a disadvantage off the line as it is a big heavy car, I didn't say it would definately loose. Not to mention the manual vs auto and final drive ratio difference. But thats why its a dumb comparison. I didn't go into the fact that multiple MarkVIII owners here ran 14.6 stock and breaking 14.9 is common, cause you like to believe what you read and not believe fellow members.

Heres a read:http://www.modernracer.com/hondacivicsi2006.html

Whats your definition of "outrun"? That was my point. IT ISN"T OUTRUNNING SH!T.

 

[02LSE96LSC91SE84TC]

This one says 6.8 0-60 and 15.2 1/4 for the si.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=109825/pageId=69490

6.8/15.1 and 6.6/15.0

http://autos.yahoo.com/honda_civic_si_6_spd_mt_w_nav_and_performance_tires-performance/

 

[Calabrio]

You're the dumbass who won't admit any Mark VIIIs are good for 14.9s stock, which obviously they are, and thinks a Civic SI which reportedly runs 14.9s will somehow walk the :q:q:q:q out of a Mark from any speed.

Plus, that SI doesn't even handle particularly well, .87g vs .84 for an LSC.

I never said there was no Mark VIII could run 14.9s stock.
I have said that most of them don't.

And I've never said that the Civic will blaze past the Mark VIII. I just think it's telling when a 2.0 liter compact car can run neck and neck with the Mark VIII. (in the other thread, I did say the Speed3 would though)

In this thread, I was addressing the insecure tendency of some owners to make completely inaccurate comments regarding the performance of those Civic Sis. You can't belittle them for their performance.

And everytime, I get to argue with people like yourself who engage in the most embarrassing kind of contortions in order to save face and claim that the Mark has some kind of performance superiority. Reakity- the Si is as fast as the Mark,so don't belittle the performance or engineering of the car.

 

[Calabrio]

So by YOU telling me its a loosing point I'm a dumbass. OK, that makes sense.

I had a hunch comprehension was a challenge for you.

I said the MarkVIII has a disadvantage off the line as it is a big heavy car, I didn't say it would definately loose. Not to mention the manual vs auto and final drive ratio difference. But thats why its a dumb comparison. I didn't go into the fact that multiple MarkVIII owners here ran 14.6 stock and breaking 14.9 is common, cause you like to believe what you read and not believe fellow members.

And I'm sure if I visit a Si board I'll find equally as impressive numbers as well. There's always a bell curve regarding car performance, a few are much faster, a few are much slower, and the rest reside somewhere in the middle.

Do I need to walk you through this? I get the impression that you're just backpedaling now, having essentially retracted your original claim.

First you said that running similar numbers as a MarkVIII considering it half its size is not impressive at all.... not noting that the civic has a 2.0 liter engine that makes almost 200hp naturally. Or that the Civic Si weighs 2800lbs. The Mark VIII with 4.6 liters and 280hp weighs about 3800lbs.

Then you added that "Out sprint and outrun are to entirely different things. The MarkVIII has the high end. Its sprinting abilities are where it has the disadvantage." So I pointed out that the Mark VIII doesn't even have that advantage. The Si passes a little faster, and performs in the top end better as well. Meaning the Mark VIII DOES NOT have the high end.

Whats your definition of "outrun"? That was my point. IT ISN"T OUTRUNNING SH!T.

I've restated your initial claim, you can backpedal all day long if you want. You clearly imply that outrun refers to top end speed. And my point, as has been demonstrated repeatedly, is that the Mark VIII doesn't even have the advantage in the top end.

Arguably, if you want to start discussing speeds over 100, I don't know the outcome. The Mark VIII isn't too peppy up there either and then mine shifts into Overdrive once I hit 120. But triple digit speeds are pretty irrelevant on the streets anyway.

It's tiresome to see everyone bend over backwards coming up with excuses to dismiss the reality. "Oh it's geared higher" or "it weighs less" or "it has a manual." None of this matters, in terms of performance, the Si is either faster or rivals the Mark VIII.

Ultimate point - the Si is worthy of respect in this circle. It's performance rivals that of even the first Gen 1 Mark VIII's.

It's a good car, they did a great job redesigning it in California. The car earns a bit of automotive respect.

 

[02LSE96LSC91SE84TC]

I never said there was no Mark VIII could run 14.9s stock.
I have said that most of them don't.

And I've never said that the Civic will blaze past the Mark VIII. I just think it's telling when a 2.0 liter compact car can run neck and neck with the Mark VIII. (in the other thread, I did say the Speed3 would though)

In this thread, I was addressing the insecure tendency of some owners to make completely inaccurate comments regarding the performance of those Civic Sis. You can't belittle them for their performance.

And everytime, I get to argue with people like yourself who engage in the most embarrassing kind of contortions in order to save face and claim that the Mark has some kind of performance superiority. Reakity- the Si is as fast as the Mark,so don't belittle the performance or engineering of the car.

So now you say its as fast as the MarkVIII and is no longer outrunning?

Insecure tendency? Embarrassing kind of contortions to save face. Where do come up with this stuff, not from MY posts.

Once again I saw nothing to convince me the si was outrunning a MarkVIII. That was my point and still is.

The 139tq si needs a 8000rpm redline a 6-speed and a 4.77 final gear ratio to run with a confortable 9-14 year old car that only uses 2 gears in the quarter mile. I can eat a ice cream cone and talk on a cell phone and race against one.

The cars just not impressive to me...sorry if you see that as belittling the car. It has more in common with a chain saw than a MarkVIII.

 

[Dr. Paul]

It's funny, I've posted this picture on a couple different forums, and the thread always turns into a massive sh!tfest. LOL

Carry on.

Paul.

 

[02LSE96LSC91SE84TC]

I had a hunch comprehension was a challenge for you.

You seem to contradict yourself alot, but you say I have problems with comprehension.

It may seem like I'm backpedaling as you seem to forgotten my original point and you like to tell people what they are saying. I'm not the one with a comprehesion problem.



The car being heavy and under geared for maximum potential aren't excuses, they are facts. Thats why I said its kinda stupid to compare.

 

[02LSE96LSC91SE84TC]

It's funny, I've posted this picture on a couple different forums, and the thread always turns into a massive sh!tfest. LOL

Carry on.

Paul.

Well the plate says torqueless and the car is, I don't see the problem myself.

 

[chicken]

cant we all just get along

 

[MediumD]

I never said there was no Mark VIII could run 14.9s stock.
I have said that most of them don't.

And I've never said that the Civic will blaze past the Mark VIII. I just think it's telling when a 2.0 liter compact car can run neck and neck with the Mark VIII. (in the other thread, I did say the Speed3 would though)

In this thread, I was addressing the insecure tendency of some owners to make completely inaccurate comments regarding the performance of those Civic Sis. You can't belittle them for their performance.

And everytime, I get to argue with people like yourself who engage in the most embarrassing kind of contortions in order to save face and claim that the Mark has some kind of performance superiority. Reakity- the Si is as fast as the Mark,so don't belittle the performance or engineering of the car.

I'm not 'belittling' the SI's performance, it does pretty good even though some other sport compacts do better. Just quit saying it will walk a Mark VIII, because it won't, and that's all I've been trying to say. Now you're getting the idea "neck and neck with the Mark VIII" is more like it.

BTW what embarrassing contortions have I engaged in? I say an SI won't run away from a Mark VIII and that's somehow an embarrassing contortion?

cant we all just get along

If Calabrio quits saying the SI will walk all over a Mark VIII on a Mark VIII forum nonetheless, then yes I think we can all get along.

 

[02LSE96LSC91SE84TC]

Its simple math really. Using his numbers he posted on the 2 cars.

The si goes to 60 in 6.3 and finishes the 1/4 at 14.9 @ 94.7...that means it took 8.6 secs to get from 60-94.7

The MarkVIII goes to 60 in 6.9 and finishes the 1/4 at 15.2 @ 95.5...means it took 8.3 secs to get from 60-95.5

So the si goes 60-95 in about 8.8
The MarkVIII goes 60-95 in about 8.2

Assumming full throttle from 0, not kicked down. So I'd say it doesn't take over 100mph for the Mark to pull.

 

[98LSC32V]

Its simple math really. Using his numbers he posted on the 2 cars.

The si goes to 60 in 6.3 and finishes the 1/4 at 14.9 @ 94.7...that means it took 8.6 secs to get from 60-94.7

The MarkVIII goes to 60 in 6.9 and finishes the 1/4 at 15.2 @ 95.5...means it took 8.3 secs to get from 60-95.5

So the si goes 60-95 in about 8.8
The MarkVIII goes 60-95 in about 8.2

Assumming full throttle from 0, not kicked down. So I'd say it doesn't take over 100mph for the Mark to pull.

You bring up a good comparison however your MPH at the end of the 1/4 mile is actuallly not the real speed/MPH your car is at once you reach the end. The 1/4 MPH that is on a timeslip is an average of two lines which are near the end and at the end of the 1/4 mile so your real speed is somewhat faster than what the MPH on the timeslip says.

 

[mespock]

It is funny that this thread turned into a pissing match over a ricer...

 

[chris]

I passed the guy in the original post today on the 10 on my way to work. Overall not a bad looking car but WTF is with the one red light in the bumper???

 

[1993_M75]

I passed the guy in the original post today on the 10 on my way to work. Overall not a bad looking car but WTF is with the one red light in the bumper???

Rearward facing foglight. Standard in many European countries.... Pehaps he was stationed overseas and had his car shipped there? He would have had to add one to be legal some places I believe.

 

[kustomizingkid]

I don't understand comparing these two cars, they are like apples and oranges.

All I can say is if Honda got the engine straightened out the tranny in the correct place and the rear wheels spinning I would probably buy a civic. Take a civic body and put in an S2000 drivetrain. That would be a cool little car.

 

[Moes8]

I don't understand comparing these two cars, they are like apples and oranges.

All I can say is if Honda got the engine straightened out the tranny in the correct place and the rear wheels spinning I would probably buy a civic. Take a civic body and put in an S2000 drivetrain. That would be a cool little car.

i second that notion,

oh yeah,keep the reliability call it a ford/lincoln and i'll even buy 2 of them.lol

 

[Calabrio]

So now you say its as fast as the MarkVIII and is no longer outrunning?

Actually, on average the numbers of the little Si are better than those of the Mark VIII, so that does indicate that they are probably faster. I suspect the range in published times is more due to the efficiency and skill of certain auto-journalists and less with the car.

But with that said, in terms of straight line performance, they are both in the same class.

Once again I saw nothing to convince me the si was outrunning a MarkVIII. That was my point and still is.

O.K. then I'll leave it at that. Though we haven't found any figures that show where the Mark VIII would pass the Si, it certainly would stay within a car length over 30.

I can eat a ice cream cone and talk on a cell phone and race against one.

Sounds kind of boring to me. Personally, as an automotive enthusiast, I enjoy a free reving manual transmission drive train with a sport tuned suspension, that is also civil on in traffic.

The cars just not impressive to me...sorry if you see that as belittling the car. It has more in common with a chain saw than a MarkVIII.

Well, that's just not true.


Some insight on me, for many years, you couldn't get a reasonable car with the performance of the Mark VIII. And now, you can get that same level of performance in a factory Civic Si. I'm impressed by this. And as a result, the some of the luster of the Mark VIII is lost. When you can't even comfortably race a Civic, the times are changing.

And as gesture of good will, I'll offer up this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALZIS-5V_mY

You'll either revel in the destruction or marvel at the engineering.