Engine Trouble

[Harlem1Der]

Soooo a couple days ago I got a check engine light on my LS. Now when I first got it, I had a check engine light and it was running a lil rough. So I took it to the dealership and it was the dreaded coil problem that LS's apparently have. No worries, the dealership fixed it for free, so good karma points there. So on this particular engine light, I went back to the same dealership and when they ran it on the computer, it came back as a bad throttle position sensor and a quote of about $300! My question is this......how hard is it to do the change/repair myself? Would it be smarter/better to let the dealership do it, or is this something I could do on a weekend. The car has a rough run at about 45-55 until I switch into SST and drop it into 4th. I'm really hoping it'll be easier to just do myself, but I decided to bring this issue to the LVC guru's and let it be settled here.

 

[112 LS]

from the 04 workshop manual...

looks easy enough as it's right there, however this doc mentions something about programming the pcu, which I'm not sure is optional or not.


Picture

Expert: Scottdagoalie replied 845 days and 6 hours ago.

2004 Lincoln LS Workshop Manual
Throttle Position (TP) Sensor

Removal

1. Remove the Throttle Body (TB).

1.

NOTICE: Do not put direct heat on the Throttle Position (TP) sensor or any other plastic parts because heat damage may occur. Damage may also occur if Electronic Throttle Body (ETB) temperature exceeds 120°C (248°F).

NOTE: Do not use power tools.
Remove the TP sensor.
1. Using a suitable heat gun, apply heat to the top of the ETB until the top TP sensor bolt ear reaches approximately 55°C (130°F), this should take no more than 3 minutes using an 1,100-watt heat gun. The heat gun should be about 25.4 mm (1 in) away from the ETB.
1. Monitor the temperature of the top TP sensor bolt ear on the ETB with a suitable temperature measuring device, such as a digital temperature laser or infrared thermometer, while heating the ETB.
1. Using hand tools, quickly remove the bolt farthest from the heat source first and discard.
1. Using hand tools, remove the remaining bolt and discard.
1. Remove and discard the TP sensor.
graphic

TSB 05-14-4


ORD:
2003-2005 Thunderbird
2005 Crown Victoria, Mustang
2004-2005 Explorer, F-150
2005 E-Series, Expedition, F-Super Duty
LINCOLN:
2003-2005 LS
2005 Town Car, Navigator
MERCURY:
2005 Grand Marquis
2004-2005 Mountaineer



This article supersedes TSB 05-09-15 to update the Issue and Dealer Coding.
ISSUE:

Some vehicles built 11/29/2004 and prior may exhibit the wrench light on with both P2106 and P2135 diagnostic trouble codes (DTCs).
ACTION:

Replace the throttle position sensor (TPS) following the instruction sheet included in the TPS service kit. Reprogram the powertrain control module (PCM) to the latest calibration using WDS release B36.11 and higher, or B37.2 and higher. This new calibration is not included in the B37 CD. Calibration files are also available at www.motorcraft.com.

 

[2002_lincolnLS]

I can't imagine having to program the computer for a sensor to be plugged in that would already be there.....

But it wouldn't be the first time a car engineer made everything opposite of what would make sense

 

[Harlem1Der]

wow all that seems pretty easy until you get to the part about programing the computer. I don't have anything that could pull that off. Guess the boys at Ford are gonna have to do this one.

 

[joegr]

wow all that seems pretty easy until you get to the part about programing the computer. I don't have anything that could pull that off. Guess the boys at Ford are gonna have to do this one.

Are you/they sure that it's not really another coil going? Electrical noise from a bad coil can cause the PCM to think that certain sensors are bad when they aren't.

 

[Harlem1Der]

Are you/they sure that it's not really another coil going? Electrical noise from a bad coil can cause the PCM to think that certain sensors are bad when they aren't.

Well I took it to the dealership and they put it on the computer cause of the CEL and they said it wasn't any of the coils and that this was the error code that came up. I hope they wouldn't just say it was something else to get money know what I mean

 

[joegr]

Well I took it to the dealership and they put it on the computer cause of the CEL and they said it wasn't any of the coils and that this was the error code that came up. I hope they wouldn't just say it was something else to get money know what I mean

If all they did was pull codes, then it could have been a coil. You can't detect many coil problems without doing a stress test. The PCM will only trigger a code if the coil fails completely, however, if a marginal coil make enough noise it will trigger false throttle body codes.

 

[Harlem1Der]

If all they did was pull codes, then it could have been a coil. You can't detect many coil problems without doing a stress test. The PCM will only trigger a code if the coil fails completely, however, if a marginal coil make enough noise it will trigger false throttle body codes.

so since the coil problem was big enough to warrant a "recall", could I go to the dealership and have them change all the coils at no cost to me?

 

[joegr]

so since the coil problem was big enough to warrant a "recall", could I go to the dealership and have them change all the coils at no cost to me?

Here's the letter. It's more of a quiet warranty extension to 100K miles on the coils. It's not a recall.

http://www.allstatetrucks.com/Recalls/cust satisfaction recalls/07m07/R07M07 dealer bulletin.pdf

They will only replace the coils (and plugs) that fail the stress test. If none fail, you will have to pay the standard diagnostic charge.

 

[joegr]

I can't imagine having to program the computer for a sensor to be plugged in that would already be there.....

But it wouldn't be the first time a car engineer made everything opposite of what would make sense

I don't think that's what they are saying.

I think they are saying that since you had to replace the sensor for a ETC concern, while you're at it unload this new PCM firmware that may reduce future problems.

 

[Harlem1Der]

Here's the letter. It's more of a quiet warranty extension to 100K miles on the coils. It's not a recall.

http://www.allstatetrucks.com/Recalls/cust satisfaction recalls/07m07/R07M07 dealer bulletin.pdf

They will only replace the coils (and plugs) that fail the stress test. If none fail, you will have to pay the standard diagnostic charge.

Any idea what consists of a stress test? I ask because my car looses power while in 5th gear around the 45-55mph range. When I say loose power, it shudders as if the cylinders aren't firing properly.....or like if you're in a 5 speed manual transmission and are in 5th gear but you're speed isn't sufficient for that gear, know what I'm saying? Is that the stress test that you're talking about? Since taking the car to the dealership when the CEL was on, it's only come on once, but since then, no lights, but same problem.

 

[chris2523]

CEL? go to autozone and get the codes. helps knowing what the exact codes are.

 

[joegr]

Any idea what consists of a stress test? I ask because my car looses power while in 5th gear around the 45-55mph range. When I say loose power, it shudders as if the cylinders aren't firing properly.....or like if you're in a 5 speed manual transmission and are in 5th gear but you're speed isn't sufficient for that gear, know what I'm saying? Is that the stress test that you're talking about? Since taking the car to the dealership when the CEL was on, it's only come on once, but since then, no lights, but same problem.

This link describes how the stress test is done.

http://www.themustangsource.com/galaxie/tsb/tsb05_22_08_missfire_rough_running.pdf

 

[Harlem1Der]

This link describes how the stress test is done.

http://www.themustangsource.com/galaxie/tsb/tsb05_22_08_missfire_rough_running.pdf

Thanks for this, I'll be taking the car back to them and see what they say....As far as goin to Auto Zone about the CEL, they initially gave me the codes saying that it was the throttle position sensor/indicator. but after seeing what everybody's saying about the coils possibly causing an improper code being given, I'm gonna see if the dealership can do stress test and coil swap. I'd really like it if they just did all 8 and took it from there rather than me cough up $300 and that not be the issue cause then I'd be hostile lol.