Electrical Help needed Gauges, Indicator Lights and AC on and off

[SIRCOREY]

2002 LS 63K miles. This all started when one day the car didn't start. We had it towed to a Meineke where the tech said your alternator is bad bcuz battery was not holding a charge. He replaced alternator ($420+) and we bought a Champion 65W battery which he installed.

My mom got the car back and the needles are going all over the place
The indicator lights come on and then go off.
The message window says check charging system. I look at the battery and there is droplets of water around refill caps.

The Tech blames the problem on the previous owner and implied that the car must have been in an accident and has mismatched modules that have to be flashed.. I don't believe this, previous owner told me car was never hit. I can tell, CarFax is clean, seams and body lines are even, rubber seals good no overspray, everything is as it should be.

I suspect the remanufactured Alternator is the culprit because the car never did this before.

I've seen a few threads similar to this but not quite and I was hoping someone could speak from experience on this particular issue. The guy flat out wants to point the finger everywhere else but his rebuilt alternator.

Anybody else have these symptoms where the lights on the dash go on and off the speedo goes from 0 to 160 tach goes from 0 to 7 and the A/C goes on and off?? It all seems to happen when you accelerate and only after the car has been running for a few minutes

Thanks all!


Corey

 

[marcredd]

Was it a Motorcraft alternator? If not, I want to believe that is the culprit. It has been a long discussed topic here that the LS does not do well, for the overwhelming most part, with any other alternators but a Motorcraft. The pcm controls it and gets very touchy about not working at all or for very long toward other brands. I would still think the alternator is the issue even if it is a Motorcraft. Sounds as if the mechanic did not enjoy his time under the car changing the first alternator and does not want to change that one out.

Joe more than likely will see your post and may be able to lend a lot of good insight as well.

 

[joegr]

You need to not start the car anymore until you replace the alternator with an OEM one. Your whatever brand/rebuild alternator is not compatible with the LS's PCM controlled charging scheme. It it now going overvoltage and will fry your electronics. It is already damaging the battery. You also need to replace the battery with an OEM type that has the vent tube connection. Otherwise you are in danger of having the cabin go up in flames with someone in there. (Your battery is being overcharged, so it is venting hydrogen into the trunk. The ventilation system will pull this hydrogen into the cabin. One spark and it's all over.)

Find a good independent mechanic that know the LS, or find a good dealer. Stay away from the chain stores.

 

[marcredd]

The mechanic has some work or refunding to do. Joe is dead on about the battery being affected and if it is not vented. Do not let the mechanic give you any bs. Stand your ground.

 

[SIRCOREY]

Thanks for the quick and helpful response. The irony of all this is the manager I spoke to blames other modules for being incompatible with the alternator when it is appearing to be the alternator itself that is not compatible. It sort of proves his own theory (now to his disadvantage) that a new device was not mated properly.

I thought perhaps that the alternator's integrated regulator was the problem as it appears to be overcharging the battery (water mist/drops around the two battery caps that has a spray pattern almost as if it was under pressure not a leak)

I'm hoping the guy will man up and take it as a lesson learned that aftermarket/rebuilt alternators do not play well with the other OEM components of the charging system

 

[marcredd]

The issues you are experiencing are 100% theirs to resolve.

 

[joegr]

...I thought perhaps that the alternator's integrated regulator was the problem as it appears to be overcharging the battery (water mist/drops around the two battery caps that has a spray pattern almost as if it was under pressure not a leak)...

And there's your problem. The gen I LS, unlike most other cars, does not use an independent regulator in the alternator. Instead, the OEM alternator is controlled by the PCM. If you put an alternator in with a built-in regulator, you're going to have problems.

The mist that you see is acid, and it will cause big problems with the electrical distribution and relay center that is in the tire well with the battery. Beyond that, the pressure that is forcing it out is hydrogen gas. It is boiling out of the battery due to it being over charged. If you had the correct OEM battery, it would be sealed except for a vent tube connection that comes out under the car. In that case the hydrogen and the acid drops would come out under the car where there would be much less danger.

 

[SIRCOREY]

Hey Joegr, Thanks for the insight by the way. I may be assuming that the reman'd alternator he put in had a built in regulator, I'm new to this car so as I was looking on autopartswarehouse.com and other sites, the reman'd alternators mentioned w/integrated regulator so I assumed that's what was installed but can't confirm 100% just to clarify.

Nevertheless the guy at Meineke is defending his guy who rebuilds the alternators and saying that if it didn't need one he wouldn't put one in there and I'm thinking they might try to blame this on a bad PCM. Which was working fine prior to taking the car to him. It's always some BS with this stuff. No one wants to eat the cost of a 2.5hr - 5hr "do-over" and so may as well pin it on something else and keep the customer's tab open. I wonder if I should take it to Ford/Lincoln and have them confirm that the PCM is fine before getting the run-around.

Anybody have a price on a genuine Motorcraft alternator?
Another question is, does the system have to be flashed even if just replacing the alternator?

Thanks again Marc and Joe for the help, it's really appreciated, my 70yr old mom is grateful as well!

 

[marcredd]

Pay out of pocket, if possible, for a Motorcraft alternator and battery, have it installed and then bring them the bill and their bad alternator and demand a refund. It is almost certain not pcm issue. But yes, if you have the dealer verify the pcm is good, I would bill him for that as well.

If your dealer is cool like mine, they may even run the test at a very small out of pocket cost to you and print off their results. Be a smart consumer and cover all of your bases before proving them incorrect with regard to your vehicle.

 

[joegr]

No, no "flashing" is required to replace an alternator. "Flashing" of one form or another is required to replace the cluster, PCM, FEM, REM, or DATC (sometimes, not always).
A dealer will likely need to replace the alternator before they can be positive that the PCM and everything else is okay.

Please, also get the correct battery put in. This really is a safety issue!

At some point (maybe now) you may have to realize that the money you spent is sunk, and there's no point to throwing more good money or time at a bad shop. A good dealer will be expensive, but they will fix it correctly and safely.

 

[marcredd]

No basic diagnostic can be run on a pcm without flashing it completely? If it is not throwing an error code would that not be sufficient documentation for the op to provide to at least give a baseline that the pcm is not at fault? Obviously, he is going to need something if he is not in the position to pay out of pocket up front to have is safely resolved.

 

[joegr]

No basic diagnostic can be run on a pcm without flashing it completely?

I know of no need to flash the PCM to do basic and full diagnostic tests on it. However, the electrical system has to be stable to do those tests. I suspect that the alternator will have to be replaced to accomplish this.

{I was only trying to point out that the only time the PCM would need "flashing" would be if the PCM itself were replaced.}

 

[marcredd]

Looks as if paying out of pocket up front for Motorcraft parts and fighting it out on the backend is going to have to be the safest and most timely resolution for the op.

 

[joegr]

Looks as if paying out of pocket up front for Motorcraft parts and fighting it out on the backend is going to have to be the safest and most timely resolution for the op.

I suspect so.

 

[marcredd]

Op, if you know of a reputable mechanic, you can purchase a Motorcraft alternator from rockauto.com and have it installed. The battery will need to come through the Dealer though. Save all receipts regardless of whatever way you choose to go. But as Joe said, stop driving the car immediately and do not call yourself "checking" it by starting the car to see if it is still giving you the same issues.