Electrical dash problems

mcunningham122

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First, let me say that I'm very angry. I'm trying really hard to comprehend why my 2003 LS with just over 20K has a dash that lights up like Christmas not even 1 mo after the warranty ends! I took it to my local Lincoln dealership after calling them in a panic while roadside the 1st time it happened. At that time they said most likely electrical like battery. Any more than that would cost me for a diagnostics test.
I drove in and they checked the battery. It was fine as I knew it would be. Never a starting problem. They told me they would need to run the diagnostic to assess IF it was ABS sensors. Huh? Told me it shouldn't be a big issue anyway as they just couldn't find anything. It kept happening with a bit more frequency, so I brought it in for the diagnostics...$130.00 later...they said they still could find nothing wrong. Told me "You're OK to continue driving it". The occurrence frequency ramped up now with some discernible stiffness in the steering and a slight pull to the right.
My patience was waning at this point. I had forgotten something in the loaner, so I had to return to the dealership to retrieve it and en route the car dash was like a disco dance floor, lights popping on like crazy. By the time I arrived I was angry. I suggested the Service Manager take a ride with me. Well, we didn't get far at all because no sooner than we had both buckled in, the dash lit up. This time he could not deny my problem. I suspect he knew exactly why from my very first call but milked me for more money. This issue is an Achilles Heel so I cannot be the only owner who had brought in their LS with it.
I dropped off my car and inquired an estimate for the cost and was given $1500-$1600. I choked. He intimated he might not even be able to find the part and that it's not the miles but the age of my car. Well, when I first brought it in, it was just 1 month out of warranty. Now, of course, it's pushing 3 months. I've done some investigation only to discover this is a issue with the LS model. Why isn't this on recall? And why does it cost so much? Lincoln should stand by their products with so very many of them having this specific problem, I'm surprised there isn't a class action law suit with it costing so much to repair.
Can you please tell me specifically what the problem is? I am beside myself. My car, for all intents and purposes, is almost brand new. I love this car otherwise, but I fear that it's an albatross and I'll need to dump it fast. I'd rather buy a VW and know it's going to be reliable and definitely not drain my bank account.
 

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You keep saying "this" is a known issue, and "this specific problem", but you haven't identified any specific problem.
You haven't told us which lights come on and in what sequence. You haven't posted any DTCs either.

At this point, I mush assume that you just want to rant about it, and that you don't really want any help.
 
Sounds like you will not be owning your LS for very long. A rant is fine, but if you really want to save yourself some money and anguish post some facts like joe pointed out above. Did the 'check engine light' come on like the star at the top of the Christmas tree with a bunch of other lights on it or was it just the 'check engine' light by itself like the star of bethlehem causing you reference to Christmas trees? And what was the present under the tree (the actual problem diagnosed)? And what was the part they said they couldnt get?
 
Battery. Two days after my dealer declared my battery good it was D-E-A-D DEAD!! The LS (and probably most newer cars) does weird things when the battery is failing. Check the battery voltage at rest (should be ~12.5V) and while running (should be ~14.5V)

I've had 4 LSes (still have 3) over the last almost 14 years and have yet to experience this "issue with the LS model". Can't be too common, there were only about 250,000 LSes made.
 
ABS and traction lights come on along with brake light. For those who posted about my battery, if you read my post I wrote they checked my battery at the 1st service visit. I don't know what "specific" part, the service manager hasn't been forthright. As I said in my rant, it took ME pushing him to take a ride with me for him to finally acknowledge that my lights do in fact come on. Mentioned something behind the dash that needs to be replaced. I'm not a mechanic. If I was, I'd know and fix it myself.
As to those who think I'm pre-fabricating the frequency of dash issues, just put it in your browser and see what comes up. I came here for someone to help ME comprehend what specifically the problem is and why it will cost me so very dearly. As I said, my LS just rolled over 20,000 miles and 2 months out of warranty.
 
Well they gave you an estimate of $1500-$1600, what for?
 
If the service manager isnt telling you any info then you need to talk to his boss. Dont leave until you are 100% clear on what the problem is and what the proposed fixes are. I dont know why anyone would leave not knowing what the problem is or what is needed to fix it. That just makes no sense.

Battery has been mentioned again because if they didn't load test it then it isnt a true test and you didn't specify the type of test they did. Any idiot can hook a volt meter to a battery and get 12+ volts. If the battery isnt under a load it will appear to be good but it may not be good. A marginal battery in these cars can do strange things. How old is the battery? If its 4 or 5 years old then it probly needs to replaced anyway.
 
After an extensive 5 minute search....I have read that your wheel speed sensors/abs sensors are probably bad. It could also be the abs module. You will need to have the dealer read the codes and that will tell you where the problem is. Good luck
 
ABS and traction lights come on along with brake light. ...

That could easily be just a bad wheel speed sensor. Anything that disables the ABS (like a bad sensor) will also disable the traction control or AdvanceTrac (whichever you have). It sounds like you need to find a better dealer. Some are better than others. When I have to go to a dealer, I have to drive about 90 miles away, as the ones that are close by aren't any good.

Google any car and any generic complaint (like those lights on), and you will get lots of hits.
 
What's the temperature where you live? i had this exact same problem when i tried to start it under -30c.
 
That's almost the best part of all this....they don't know. They merely went to the MOST expensive job and gave me that number. I called Lincoln and the customer service rep called the dealership. And that's the ONLY way I know they had no idea.

OK, let me say no grass grew under my feet in the meantime. I took advice from you and retrieved my car. Took it to Batteries Plus and replaced my battery. Also, the brake fluid was at the minimum bar, so I bought a bottle of fluid and topped it up to the max. I checked my gas cap as that light also was on in the cluster.

Driving away, the lights popped on but as I drove more, the frequency slowed. I didn't drive it yesterday but today when I first pulled out the drive, the lights came on. They never came on while I drove and stopped to top of the gas tank. But, they did pop on when I was again. It happened as I pulled away from a light and goosed it some and then took my foot off completely to coast a bit, off when I broke. I just don't understand. My entire dash goes dead when this happens. No tach, no speedometer. At least I have it slowed down now.

Any ideas?
 
Now, you may have hit on something with them being bad. I could go to Winter Haven or Tampa or Orlando. Except this...I need to get home if they keep it. I would need a loaner. Where is the wheel speed sensor located? Wouldn't that appear on the diagnostics?
 
......Also, the brake fluid was at the minimum bar, so I bought a bottle of fluid and topped it up to the max......

THAT probably means the pads are near or nearing replacement. UNLESS you have a leak, brake fluid isn't "used".
 
Any ideas?

tons of ideals, could be a communication error, or a bad connection, or a bad module, or a bad sensor, or a bunch of bad sensors, or any mixture of those.

without knowing what codes are being recorded, no one will ever be able to help you. we could sit here all day throwing out ideals but those ideals dont mean anything with out something to base them off of
 
Where is the wheel speed sensor located?
think about this, where on the car would a sensor need to be to measure the speed the wheel is turning (hint the car has four of them) start looking at where the stuff that spins meets the stuff that doesn't spin.

Wouldn't that appear on the diagnostics?
should...


My entire dash goes dead when this happens. No tach, no speedometer. At least I have it slowed down now.
so wait, that wording could makes this sound like this has been a symptom all along... has the cluster died when this happen from the beginning or is this new?
 
...so wait, that wording could makes this sound like this has been a symptom all along... has the cluster died when this happen from the beginning or is this new?

This is making it way more work than it should be. If the OP really wants help, they should post the complete symptoms (from the start) and be clear about them.
 
I know the whole cluster dieing could really change what the problem is... I'm now kinda leaning toward a couple of different problems (with very little info to base any of it off of)




OP: just curious, when these lights come on, is it for any real length of time or just for a few seconds? just wondering if, when those lights are on, if the ABS/trac cont. are actually working or not. if the problem persist long enough, it should be easy enough to test...


you very well may have a couple of problems going on at the same time. I do still highly suspect a wheel speed sensor, if one of those is malfunctioning (and since this comes and goes, probably intermittently) the trac control cant tell if the rear wheels are spinning too fast for how fast the car is actually moving, and the ABS cant work if it cant tell if any of the wheels lock up.

but then again, a faulty ABS module could be to blame since it controls both. with out throwing parts at this until its fixed (which also some poor dealers have been known to do...) you will really need to have the car scanned to find out what is really going on.
 
Battery light, traction light, ABS light and the small cluster bar with the wrench also lights up and ALL gauges go dead. Time frame is but a couple of seconds for them to be on or dead. I can't pin point any specific action to the onset. Battery is new, replaced last week. I inquired about a leak, no one noticed any but then that really doesn't mean there isn't one does it? I'll check my brake fluid again later on today after work. As to going over the Service Mgr's head, I think I did that when I called Lincoln. That's way over his head. Going to a different dealer is definitely on my agenda. I drive infrequently which is why my car has so few miles. FYI, the second trip into the dealership saw them putting this on the diagnostics. No codes presented, having said that....I believe they parked my car outside for the most part and paid little attention to it. Maybe they were praying for me to take it away from them.
 
They checked my brakes. I went in on my second visit to have my brakes done on their special. They informed me my brakes were fine and not in need of any replacement.
 
Battery light, traction light, ABS light and the small cluster bar with the wrench also lights up and ALL gauges go dead. Time frame is but a couple of seconds for them to be on or dead. ...

Well, this is very different than what you described before. This part is very important. Do all gauges (tachometer, temperature, fuel, and speedometer) really drop to 0, or is it just some of them. If it is really all of them, then there is either a cluster fault or a data bus fault. A data bus fault could be wiring or almost any of the electronic modules. A competent, factory trained, mechanic with the correct tools should be able to figure this out in a day or so, if the problem frequently repeats. Has this car ever had any front end damage that we repaired?
 
Battery light, traction light, ABS light and the small cluster bar with the wrench also lights up and ALL gauges go dead. Time frame is but a couple of seconds for them to be on or dead. I can't pin point any specific action to the onset.

This is so much better and more helpful. also a game changer.

If it is really all of them, then there is either a cluster fault or a data bus fault.

I'm all in with this one.
 
Well, this is very different than what you described before. This part is very important. Do all gauges (tachometer, temperature, fuel, and speedometer) really drop to 0, or is it just some of them. If it is really all of them, then there is either a cluster fault or a data bus fault. A data bus fault could be wiring or almost any of the electronic modules. A competent, factory trained, mechanic with the correct tools should be able to figure this out in a day or so, if the problem frequently repeats. Has this car ever had any front end damage that we repaired?

Joe:
I am the 3rd owner of this car. I bought it with 7300 miles on it 2 yrs ago. No signs of damage, no report of damage and if it's severe enough, isn't it supposed to be disclosed?
I've put new tires all around after the new battery since last I posted and I took it to an independent garage and stood next to the tech who ran 2 diagnostics. I believe he said it was the "SIMS?" and that it's out of his pervue and that I should take it to the Ford dealership. He's had nothing but negative feedback regarding the Lincoln Service Department from other techs & customers. After my witnessing the testing, I agree. Wish I'd known that up front.
So now I've done the "eliminate the smaller, less expensive" possibilities, I believe it's in my dash itself. I fear it'll be a very time consuming and costly repair now. If I failed to mention this, along with my dash lighting up and the gauges dying, my steering mimics loss of power steering. FYI, the engine light does come on along with all the rest. I didn't recognize it but the test tech mentioned and pointed it out.
Just a side of frustration: it took the tech maybe 20 min to run the full boat diagnostics to point me in a specific direction and he did it for free. Lincoln kept my car for 3 days and charged me $70 for the testing (?) unable to find the answer. I suspect they never did it, or if they did, they have no idea how to run or read it. Either way, they owe me $70 for incompetence. Those are the "experts" Lincoln trains to maintain their product? I worked in a Lincoln/Ford/Mercury Dealership up in NY State. WE had techs, real expertly "up to date" trained techs in an upstate city of 35K population. This is a city of over 100K and they can't hire good techs?
Sorry...all of you are more intelligent than all of them put together.
 

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