Driveline Slop

lseguy

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well..not really slop but seems like I feel some looseness at certain low to mid gear shifts in the driveline. Are there rubber flex discs in the LS driveshaft/driveline? If so, anyone replaced them before? My car is a 2002 V8 LSE with 136k miles.
Thanks
 
Are there rubber flex discs in the LS driveshaft/driveline

Yes there is, it's called a guibo. Also on my manual transmission equipped LS I've noticed slop in the half shafts particularly on the inner CV joints.
 
If anyone would like to supply their guibo we make polyurethane ones for the cts-v and are working on others now. Very interested in making polyurethane products for these cars.
 
You want someones guibo?? So your going to make someone from the jersey shore out of polyurethane??


;)
 
Haha I know, i'm just kidding! Is this something you could buy from Autozone or the dealer, make a mold, then return the part? I'm assuming you would want to mold a brand new one and not a worn out one?
 
Yes there is, it's called a guibo. Also on my manual transmission equipped LS I've noticed slop in the half shafts particularly on the inner CV joints.

I believe have this problem as well (sloppy inner CV's)
Clunking on fast shifts.
When not pushing in clutch and moving between reverse and first (against syncro resistance) the driveline slops back and forth, clunking.

looking under the car, you can rotate the driveshafte quite a bit and the output cups move, but the half-shafts do not- about a mm on each one. Thats 2mm for both.. with 3:whatever gearing makes it 3x that.... well, in degrees.

Anyway, If i weren't working on selling my lincoln (due to lack of availability of reasonably priced suspension components), i'd be really tempted to drop new rear cv's in it...

I posted info about it here, too- but I think that thread has been archived:
http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/fo...riders&p=2037402274&viewfull=1#post2037402274
 
I have 176k on my driveshaft... and the rear guibo is original, (and from what I understand, a balanced assembly). More often the center driveshaft support, (yes, the LS uses a 2 piece driveshaft), is more the issue. Beyond that... if someone is getting excessive backlash between the driveshaft and drive axles,,, the issue is more than likely in the differential.
 
Quote Thexton:

"Anyway, If i weren't working on selling my lincoln (due to lack of availability of reasonably priced suspension components), i'd be really tempted to drop new rear cv's in it...

If yours is a gen 1,,, there are more suspension parts available now through Moog. Really though??? You didn't research the car before you bought it???
 
I have 176k on my driveshaft... and the rear guibo is original, (and from what I understand, a balanced assembly). More often the center driveshaft support, (yes, the LS uses a 2 piece driveshaft), is more the issue. Beyond that... if someone is getting excessive backlash between the driveshaft and drive axles,,, the issue is more than likely in the differential.

Its pretty clear where the slack is if you go under the car and mess with it. you can literally grab the inner cv stub, and move it without the axle shaft moving (~1mm per side). When moving the driveshaft itself, the stubs move but axle does not. you so much as touch the driveshaft, the axle stubs start moving. I'm not saying that is definitly the noise, but i'm pretty damn sure. I don't remember any such slop in any CV shafts of any previous car i've owned.


If yours is a gen 1,,, there are more suspension parts available now through Moog. Really though??? You didn't research the car before you bought it???
Not sure what makes you think I didn't research the car.

Never knew there were cars you couldn't get effing simple wear parts for aftermarket via OEMs. I new the standard transmission was rare, so checked on wear parts there- seemed to be abundant (clutches/hydraulics, not flywheels). Guess I was spoiled on all my previous cars with the ability to buy ***/Lemforder/boge/sachs/febi/etc OEM parts at reasonable prices.

I knew the DEW98 was an abandoned platform, and not super-common, but it seems similar to the CTS aside from production numbers (can't find them for the CTS non-v, but the chassis only lasted from 2003-2008 on the sigma platform).

The car parts market seems to have changed some as well. There used to be awesome euro aftermarket parts places that carried the big OEMs and not any of the junk parts. (thepartsbin, thepartsconnection, sjmauto) Harder to find nowadays it seems. :-/. Additionally, the previous car suspensions I rebuilt you could buy just the effing bushigns and press them in, now you have to buy the whole damn aluminum arm in most cases. That seems universal across most of the parts/manufacturers. Gah.
 
The DEW98 is NOT simalar to Caddy... but instead Jaguar. Second... aftermarket and OEM are 2 different things. You won't get alot of quality aftermarket parts for certain areas of the LS. OEM is the only way. For suspension parts... Moog is now making most suspension parts for the Gen 1 LS,,, but not the Gen 2. Lemforder and a couple other quality makers are still avaialable hit and miss,,, But lemforder was actually OEM for Jag. Bushings are available,,, but you have to do the research. British company is actually making all bushings in urethane. The LS is "pay to play" now.
 
The DEW98 is NOT simalar to Caddy... but instead Jaguar. Second... aftermarket and OEM are 2 different things. You won't get alot of quality aftermarket parts for certain areas of the LS. OEM is the only way. For suspension parts... Moog is now making most suspension parts for the Gen 1 LS,,, but not the Gen 2. Lemforder and a couple other quality makers are still avaialable hit and miss,,, But lemforder was actually OEM for Jag. Bushings are available,,, but you have to do the research. British company is actually making all bushings in urethane. The LS is "pay to play" now.

Lets go through this point by point
1. Caddy and Lincoln not similar? Agreed that that the caddy and the lincoln don't share the same platform. GM and Ford aren't known to work together on collaborations much. But LS and CTS are absolutely similar in my mind. Name any other rear drive US made 4 door sedan (or perhaps car for that matter) available with standard transmission and independent suspension all around. I'd love to know of others, since that is what I was in the market for (along with folding down rear seats, which out of country competitors IS250/IS300/G35x / BMW 5 / mercedes c class don't have default - merc and beemers it is an 'option' on). And yes, I'm fully aware the s-type is the lincoln's stablemate from when Ford owned Jag. Its unfortunate that the STR doesn't share all the same suspensions links / spring seat sizes / etc, as there is one near me with a blown head gasket for fairly cheap that would make an interesting donor car if more it were an easier swap and that particular one had newer parts (read, i don't want to swap K-frames and i've read that the fronts are different, not sure of rears).

2. Agreed, OEM and aftermarket are two different things. One is the manufacturer that supplied or contract manufactured the part for the car company. For example Lemforder is the OEM for some BMW suspension parts. *** is the OEM for some bmw parts (such as wheel bearings). Boge is OEM for some Audi struts. And on and on. And agreed that OEM is the only way. This is exactly what i'm complaining about. What i'm used to is the ability to get OEM parts NOT branded by the automobile manufacturer. That is, get OEM parts in the aftermarket. Not crap quality chinese aftermarket parts. (Although it seems that some of the OEM's now have chinese parts being sold on aftermarket :-/)

3. Yah, aware that Moog has some parts. When i first bought the car I did moog lower ball joints. The problem sourcing parts is basically the whole rear end.. toe /lateral links, upper ball joints, upper and lower control arm pivots.. the boots on ALL of these are showing big signs of cracking and wear on my car, and there are no OEM parts available in the aftermarket, which means paying stealership prices.

4. Thank you, good to know that Lemforder was the OEM for jag, didn't know that. Makes sense though, with the similarities in design to BMW and german lead designer or whatever on the LS (which also explains the super-high foreign parts content from europe, on things like the heater valve which on mine was made by bosch in france). Too bad can't get Lemforder rear suspension parts for the jag in aftermarket either. gr.

5. Oh, there is a company that does urethane bushings eh? Basic searches for bushings didn't show it, but now that you've clued me in to looking for performance bushings (i.e. urethane).. a quick search does show some options. Awesome, thank you! Although pricing still looks a bit silly, ugh. But I'm sure it is a fairly low volume product (for those attempting to 'do reasearch' and later reading this thread, found s-type bushings here http://powerflexusa.com/stype.aspx)
 
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Oh, looks like Moog does have the rear lower full control arm assemblies. Don't think they used to, or I missed that. Still leaves the rear toe rod and upper control arm / ball joint stuffs that they don't carry.
 
Never knew there were cars you couldn't get effing simple wear parts for aftermarket via OEMs.

Not hard to imagine when the TOTAL 7 year production run was about 290,000 vehicles. More Mustangs are sold in a single year. There are many sordid reasons the LS was killed, starting with the dealers.
 
Not hard to imagine when the TOTAL 7 year production run was about 290,000 vehicles. More Mustangs are sold in a single year. There are many sordid reasons the LS was killed, starting with the dealers.

Agreed.
I was trying to find CTS production numbers for its first gen platform, but was stuck with only V numbers.
 
Yeah... the Moog rear lowers are recent to their line. If you want non passive steer lateral toe links... they are available from Lemforder for the Jag S-type. I got 2 of the last 3 available from Rock Auto. Part #3358901. R/A is still showing 3 after I ordered 2,,, so if interested you may want to contact them to verify availablity. Upper control arms are also available from Moog. The bushings are available separate by order from Europe and are a Lemforder part... but a moot point if the ball joint is bad. Haven't yet found a ball joint for the upper arms,,, not to mention no good/proper way to replace them.
 
Keep in mind that these are a solid toe link and don't have the passive steer cylinder in them like the OEM Ford LS ones have. It will change handling characteristics slightly on the rear.
 
Motormounts,,,

I can get you a guibo from a gen 1 LS at a boneyard near me... ut it will take some time. I would also be interested in Poly lower spring isolators for the front and rear shocks. I could get those at the same time too. Let me know.
 
Nextdon,

Rock auto shows the Moog gen 1 LCA's as aluminum,,, but someone has told me that they thought the arms were stamped steel. I think they were thinking of another supplier, because I think I remember Dorman selling some upper control arm parts that were stamped steel. My guess on the recent new MOOG LCA's... is that they are made in CHINA. That's why they are so cheap.

Lemforders from a Jag may be able to be found new,,, but fitment on an LS is still in question depending on the year. Again... replacement bushings for the LCA's are available for at least 2 holes,,, but I can't be sure about the third bushing. They all have different dimensions. So at this point... the safe bet is to go "stealership" for roughly $530 shipped,,, or do the Poly conversion at a careful pace.
 
Nextdon,

Rock auto shows the Moog gen 1 LCA's as aluminum,,, but someone has told me that they thought the arms were stamped steel. I think they were thinking of another supplier, because I think I remember Dorman selling some upper control arm parts that were stamped steel. My guess on the recent new MOOG LCA's... is that they are made in CHINA. That's why they are so cheap.

Lemforders from a Jag may be able to be found new,,, but fitment on an LS is still in question depending on the year. Again... replacement bushings for the LCA's are available for at least 2 holes,,, but I can't be sure about the third bushing. They all have different dimensions. So at this point... the safe bet is to go "stealership" for roughly $530 shipped,,, or do the Poly conversion at a careful pace.

The LS suspension uses all aluminum pieces. No stamped steel which is partly why the LS was so expensive to manufacture.
 
04_Sport_LS,
Thanks for the infos.

I think i've swerved this thread pretty off topic.
On-topic, i purchased some new CV's. I'll make some vids of the slop i'm seeing in the rear cv's in a couple different views, and then compare to the new CV's. I'll also report if it removes the shift-clunk.

In this case I chose to go with the cheap chinese parts, as the OEM's are known to be sloppy on the inners it seems, and the 'qualty' rebuilds say they use OE parts.. wanted to avoid that. Will be interesting to see the results.
 
And back off-topic for a moment, rockauto now shows a toe link (solid, non-passive steer) by Beck Arnely, but (in the listing of 2000 jag s-type) do not show the Lemforder part.
"BECK/ARNLEY 1016784 {#XR813478, XR825750}"
http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/jaguar,2000,s-type,3.0l+v6,1363294,suspension,lateral+link,10414
http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=2786460&cc=1363294&jsn=478

Not that it matters, but it lists a better warrantee than Lemforder, and has black boots rather than clear...
 
Quote LS4:

"The LS suspension uses all aluminum pieces. No stamped steel which is partly why the LS was so expensive to manufacture."

Factory... YES,,, I agree with you. However... in my search for suspension parts recently,,, I came across a picture on R/A that showed a stamped steel control arm... and I'm pretty sure it was mad by Dormnan or some other sub par manufacturer. Can't find it at the moment... and don't remeber wich year search or make I was in at the time, (but it was Jag or LS).

If Moog is now making aluminum rear lower LCA's for the gen 1... I'll lay $100 on the fact that that they are being made in China, Mexico... or some other 3rd world country. I seriously doubt they are made in the U.S,,, or by Lemforder. Price determines quality... point blank.
 

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