Cobra manifolds or keep saving for some?

Trippen Out

Dedicated LVC Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2009
Messages
1,169
Reaction score
36
Location
Pinellas Park, Florida
Straight forward question. Seeing as the headers for our car are still 800 plus. Im curious if its really worth it. I found a set of cobra manifolds for 50 bucks. would it be worth the effort to get them install them and run a new exhaust off those and just call it a day? or would i see much better results for a lot more money spent by getting the headers.

I presume that with the manifolds you still need to use the flaming river joint gimmick but with the headers you do not. is that correct? can someone actually confirm or deny this. as a couple different threads ive seen says yes and no to flaming with mani.
 
Straight forward question. Seeing as the headers for our car are still 800 plus. Im curious if its really worth it. I found a set of cobra manifolds for 50 bucks. would it be worth the effort to get them install them and run a new exhaust off those and just call it a day? or would i see much better results for a lot more money spent by getting the headers.

I presume that with the manifolds you still need to use the flaming river joint gimmick but with the headers you do not. is that correct? can someone actually confirm or deny this. as a couple different threads ive seen says yes and no to flaming with mani.


In order of performance from worst to best:

Stock manifolds
Cobra Manifolds
Kooks headers

The Kooks drop in without ANY modifications to the steering joint. The Cobra manifolds will require the Flaming River joint. If you do the Cobra manifolds you can go with some magnaflow converters a little further back and do an x-pipe or resonator. You will gain some power from it. Not as much as you would with Kooks but for a lot less money. The Kooks are a hard pill to swallow. That I will admit.

as a couple different threads ive seen says yes and no to flaming with mani.

BS tech!! It's always YES to the flaming river joint with the Cobra manifolds. Some people need to be quiet and stay out of threads.
 
In order of performance from worst to best:

Stock manifolds
Cobra Manifolds
Kooks headers

The Kooks drop in without ANY modifications to the steering joint. The Cobra manifolds will require the Flaming River joint. If you do the Cobra manifolds you can go with some magnaflow converters a little further back and do an x-pipe or resonator. You will gain some power from it. Not as much as you would with Kooks but for a lot less money. The Kooks are a hard pill to swallow. That I will admit.



BS tech!! It's always YES to the flaming river joint with the Cobra manifolds. Some people need to be quiet and stay out of threads.

right this is what i thought too. I think i may just swallow that pill. I have a numark Ns7 im selling to a friend for 800 dollars. ive been considering that my header fund.
 
Headers are way over kill in an NA setup. Period. $ per gain, Cobra manifolds are best. Very cheap. If down the road you want to upgrade, you can still do so. But unless you are producing over 600HP, the cobra manifolds are fine.
 
Headers are way over kill in an NA setup. Period. $ per gain, Cobra manifolds are best. Very cheap. If down the road you want to upgrade, you can still do so. But unless you are producing over 600HP, the cobra manifolds are fine.

Not really.
 
Fact my car went from 14.2 to 13.3 with headers/exh. Only change was exh. Now I can't say how much is totally from headers because I did whole exhaust. But I was NOT putting cast iron stock manifolds in front of all that good exh that's for sure.
 
the ones i fouind for 50 dollars are 2001. but i agree that the headers are the better option. i just need a little reconfirmation on it. I have not seen anywhere that the cobra manifolds are best if you are under 600hp.

@right on the mark - unless you are selling them they dont count for the list bud :) so make me a set please
 
Fact my car went from 14.2 to 13.3 with headers/exh. Only change was exh. Now I can't say how much is totally from headers because I did whole exhaust. But I was NOT putting cast iron stock manifolds in front of all that good exh that's for sure.

Thats my point, you do not know your gains for certain. No one has any dyno numbers because usually there is other work done. And track times vary, unless you have a bunch of before and after passes on varying days. And you probably do! But we all know how much times can vary. It would be cool to get some raw dyno numbers.
 
...I have not seen anywhere that the cobra manifolds are best if you are under 600hp.

And no one said that, just that they flow pretty good up to 600hp. Any search on the SVT forums will bring those figures up. A lot of guys run stock manifolds, and many dont. Its all in how much money you want to spend.
 
Thats my point, you do not know your gains for certain. No one has any dyno numbers because usually there is other work done.

He just said he went from a 14.2 to a 13.3 That's more than 20 rwhp I bet. My headers/exhaust alone put me at 242rwhp and you'd be lucky to get 225rwhp out of a stock Mark8 from what I have seen so figure 20ish rwhp there. It's looking to me like any Mark8 with headers and full exhaust will see 20+ rwhp gain.
 
Here ya go. Manifold only change on a dyno.
The first order of business was to establish a baseline. As indicated, we installed the factory timing curve using the F.A.S.T. system and to our surprise, the supercharged crate motor thumped out some pretty impressive numbers. How does 483 hp and 427 lb-ft of torque sound? We all know that the Cobra motor is rated at 390 hp and 390 lb-ft of torque. Where did the extra 90 hp come from you ask? First off, we suspect the supercharged Cobra motors are underrated by Ford. Every one we have tested on the chassis dyno has produced much more than the 390hp flywheel rating would suggest. It is also important to understand that the rating from Ford is an SAE number derived with a full exhaust including cats, full inlet system (silencer, mass air and all inlet tubing) and full accessories.

Regardless of the rating, our test motor now produced 483 hp and 427 lb-ft of torque at a peak boost reading of 8.8 psi. As is the case with these supercharged Cobra motors, the boost curve provided by the Eaton supercharger dropped off with engine speed. This drop off in boost pressure would become much more severe as we increased the drive ratio on the blower.

After establishing a baseline, we decided that the first modification would be to tune the existing combination. Using the F.A.S.T. engine management system, Tom Habryzk from Westech dialed in a new timing curve that supplied 23 degrees of total timing everywhere (from 3,000 to 6,500 rpm). In stock trim, the WOT timing was as low as 13-14 degrees according to the gang at Kenne Bell. Increasing the ignition timing had a dramatic effect on the power curve. Since the supercharged engine was already equipped with 23 degrees of ignition timing from 6,000-6,500 rpm from the factory, there was very little difference in peak power but boy howdy did the power improve down low. The extra timing improved the torque production by as much as 40 lb-ft. No changes were made to the air/fuel mixture, which was kept constant at 11.8:1. We know that the factory air/fuel mixture can be considerably richer than this, having witnessed many Cobras running in the 10s on the chassis dyno. The difference would likely have been even greater had we elected to run the factory air/fuel curves as well on our baseline. No wonder the new Cobras respond so well to custom chips.

The next performance modification on our "Mods for 4V Mods" list was a set of 1 3/4-inch (primary) Flow Tech (Hooker) headers. Keeping the ignition timing at a steady 23 degrees and the air/fuel ratio at a constant 11.8:1, the long-tube headers and 18-inch collector extensions allowed our supercharged test mule to exceed 500 hp for the first time. The headers upped the peak power to 501 hp, while the torque peak was up slightly to 461 lb-ft. Interestingly enough, the boost pressure actually dropped with the installation of the headers. The reason for this is that the exhaust scavenging helped improve the efficiency of the engine. Improving the (pumping) efficiency of the motor will result in a decrease in boost (or back) pressure. Installation of (the right) cams, ported cylinder heads or increasing the displacement of the motor will all result in an increase in power combined with a drop in boost pressure. Please don't be mislead into thinking that we should now increase the boost pressure to compensate for the drop. The real test of the effectiveness of the headers is to install them with no other change.
 
The cobra manifolds that actually are advantageous are the 03/04 manifolds. The other year manifolds provide much less flow. And actually I think the same year Mach 1 manifolds are best also.
 
The next performance modification on our "Mods for 4V Mods" list was a set of 1 3/4-inch (primary) Flow Tech (Hooker) headers. Keeping the ignition timing at a steady 23 degrees and the air/fuel ratio at a constant 11.8:1, the long-tube headers and 18-inch collector extensions allowed our supercharged test mule to exceed 500 hp for the first time. The headers upped the peak power to 501 hp, while the torque peak was up slightly to 461 lb-ft. Interestingly enough, the boost pressure actually dropped with the installation of the headers. The reason for this is that the exhaust scavenging helped improve the efficiency of the engine. Improving the (pumping) efficiency of the motor will result in a decrease in boost (or back) pressure. Installation of (the right) cams, ported cylinder heads or increasing the displacement of the motor will all result in an increase in power combined with a drop in boost pressure. Please don't be mislead into thinking that we should now increase the boost pressure to compensate for the drop. The real test of the effectiveness of the headers is to install them with no other change.

Impressive.

The problem with Kooks is, they are going to crack.
Not if, but when.

On a boosted car a set of headers are worth the effort from what you posted.
Frank has great numbers from his long tubes on his lowest ET N/A car.

I still think on a stock~ lightly modded~ street daily driven car the cobra Manifolds are the way to go.


Kooks will be a pain, the two I know in town "JA and Kstromberg" both have cracked, they needed to be welded.
If your going to weld something, weld up a set of long tubes.
 
Very true, mine has a cracked primary right befor the collector. I had to have the ceramic coating stripped off (which isn't easy) because of the crack and the fact it had rust bubbles under the ceramic. These were not from chips but from bad prep work at the factory, looked like the surface was contaminated before the ceramic went on.
 

Members online

No members online now.
Back
Top