Click BANG!

Necronommicon

Necronommicon

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So here's some back story about what happened this morning and why I am in need of some help. The car is a '02 LS V8.

Wife went to the garage to go to work. Turned the key, waited a few seconds, continued turning to start and BANG! Puff of black smoke comes out near upper passenger fender. It was so loud I could here it here in the office I(upstairs back of the house. I came down to see WTH happened and she had already came back inside the house and proceeded to tell me the story.
I went out popped the hood couldn't see anything out of the ordinary. Checked the oil (just in case) seemed a bit low so I added some. Got in, started the car, very very rough idle to the point where it felt like it was running on only a few cylinders. Gave it a bit of gas and about 1500 to 2000 rpms seemed to run smooth, like it should. Now I believe I may have a leaking injector on this car since it has been getting harder to start (takes a long time and sometimes have to hit the gas).
I also know that the valve cover gaskets need to be changed since I have had a few coils go bad in the past (one went bad twice). Reason I haven't done it is it's cold here in Mi and I don't have a heated garage unfortunately.

Does anyone know what may be the issue? Could it just be a bad injector or a mix of the injector and valve covers? Something all together different?
 
Negative. Could it be that simple? I wouldn't think that the tensioners could cause that, though I am no mechanic.
 
Necronommicon said:
Negative. Could it be that simple? I wouldn't think that the tensioners could cause that, though I am no mechanic.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't call that simple.
He's not talking about the belt tensioner. He's talking about the timing chain tensioners.
 
Necronommicon said:
OOohhhhh. Hmm How much of a PITA is that to change?
Click to expand...

To do it right about 600 to 800 in parts and and a free weekend!Or Take it to the stealership about 2500 to 3000 in parts and labor (again to do it all uppers and lowers and all of the replacement gaskets and such that go with the job) Or like in my case i bought the drivers and passenger side upper tensioners and just did them,cost me 200 bucks in parts and about 5 hours of a Saturday. Be warned if one of the uppers goes on you it will be a whole lot more $$$$$$$$.
 
Necronommicon said:
Do you guys think that's definitely whats wrong with it?
Click to expand...

I can't see it clearly enough from here to be sure.
(Translation: It's a common problem, but you could have something else going on.)
 
joegr said:
I can't see it clearly enough from here to be sure.
(Translation: It's a common problem, but you could have something else going on.)
Click to expand...

HA! Thanks for all the info guys. Looks like I will have to delve a little more into it and see exactly what the culprit is.
 
I too am having trouble reaching it from here. However, CoPs and tensioners are the only known problem with combustion.

At some point in the future you'll want to prep for cooling issues (degas and housing). But otherwise these engines are great!
 
BTW, you might want to nail this down before driving the car again. If it is a timing chain problem, any further movement could cause valves to kiss pistons and the job to get much more complicated.

When I did the timing chains, I went full monty. So it took 4 days and a lot of cash. You can also just do the upper tensioners and use the master link chain for the quick(er)'n'easy(er) job. Some folks have expressed reservations about master links.

The check is to remove the valve cover and rotate the engine until the flats on the camshafts line up with the flats on the head. Usually the exhaust has moved. You can also visually inspect the tensioner to see if it's in chunks.

BTW, I'd be very interested to hear if your tensioners have a metal or a plastic body.
 
02's would have the metal tensioners. The production date change from plastic to metal was 4/15/01.
 
Although I am quite nervous about doing this myself I think I will. The only 2 things that make me nervous on cars is motor work (outside plugs, wires and caps/rotors and fluids) is electrical. To the guys who have done this, is it a pretty straight forward job?
 
I replaced all 4 of my timing chains last summer and it is fairly straight forward but some of the bolts that need to be removed are very hard to get to. All of the bolts have lock-tite on them so they snap as they loosen. Make sure to be straight on the bolt head with your socket or you may strip the head. That would make for a bad day. They take quite a bit of pressure to get them loosened. I would stick with 6pt. sockets and a good brand. Most of the bolts are 10mm.

If I remember right the fan pump and the plate it is attached to were tough to get at as well as the ac pump. It took some long extensions and prayer. I took cardboard and punched holes in it to mark where all the bolts went. some of them are different lengths.

The front plate of the engine has to come off to do the job right. Replace all 4 chains, chains guides and tensioners. You will also need a new crank seal. Make sure to get the all metal ones (tensioners/guides). I'm not sure if there are and plastic ones out there but I would not use them.
 
I've not found them to have Loctite applied, but they can suffer the curse of galvanic corrosion due to steel bolts in aluminum. Time and a humid environment makes the problem worse.
 
I only had to destroy one bolt, but it put up a really good fight. It's straight forward, just lots of tight spaces and awkward positions. I have no fear of tight engine compartments after that. You'll get very friendly with your swivels and 1/4" drive.
I'd strongly recommend getting the service manuals and reading through the applicable sections a few times first. There's lots of info here, and there are some really good web pages about the Jag 4.0 timing chain work which is very-very-nearly identical.
 
One last thing. If it was the timing chain would the motor smooth out at 2K rpms without any odd noise? Or should it sound like a broken chain flapping around?
 
If a chain was broken you would be running on half a motor. If the chain skipped one tooth on the sprocket you may be OK. But if the tensioner is gone and you keep reving it up to 2k it may jump another tooth and then you're dealing with bent valves, head work, and possibly a different motor (if it hasn't jumped two teeth already).

I'm curious about the black smoke coming up from the passenger fender. You mentioned the possibility of a leaking injector. Did you have an odor of gas on start up idle? Have you checked to see if you launched a spark plug? If you truly did have a leaking fuel injector, the rare possibility exists that enough fuel could enter into the cylinder to hydro-lock that cylinder. Long, long ago I had a motor that blew out a sparkplug due to excessive fuel. IMO, it's worth it to take off the SP/COP cover on the pass side to see if everybody's home.

One leaking injector would not make it had to start.
 
TooManyToys said:
One leaking injector would not make it had to start.
Click to expand...

When i bought my LS I Got it for next to nothing because of a hard start problem. I searched on here and changed the fuel filter, plugs, and COPs. Nothing changed it was still was very hard to start. I don't rememebr where i read this but, after weeks of searching i found a thread that said it could be a leaky injector, and how to trouble shoot it. First start the car and let it run for about 10-15 min, next turn the car off let it sit for about 10min then go ahead and remove the COP covers from each side and the COPs. Next start on one side and remove the spark plugs one at a time, when removing them check them and see if they have gas. When you find the wet one you found your leaking injector. This is how i solved my hard start problem, only found one wet plug, replaced the injector and problem solved. Hope this helps!:cool:
 
There is another test for the leaking injector. Besides a rough idle after starting and normal idle in a few seconds after startup.

Turn the key on, bump the starter to make sure fuel pressure rises.
The injector rails are easy to lift up enough to put a paper shop towel under all 4 on each side. Leave the injectors installed in the rails and all fuel lines hooked up when running this test. Leave sit overnight and the leaking injector will have a wet stain on the towel in the morning.

Get the valve covers done ASAP, that can ruin more than just the coils. Convertors cost a fortune!!

With the covers off check those cam chain tensioners. If the housing is plastic replace them. The plastic cracks and the tensioner can move sideways, loose oil pressure & munch the chain. Mark the chain & cam gear teeth with white paint before changing the tensioner.

Mr.H
 
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