TooManyToys
Well-Known LVC Member
So I know some here have used these chains, but I was wondering how you have done and how long you've been running with these links.
Christophers Secondary Chains
- Thread starter TooManyToys
- Start date
oddball
Dedicated LVC Member
About 12k miles over the past 16 months. I ordered the full kit, but specified the wrong primary chains and slides. Secondary parts went in fine, and I swapped the slide surface from the replacement arms to the original arms for the primaries and reused the primary chains.
The tools didn't work quite right, but well enough to get the job done.
Note that these were the solid chains, not the master link style.
The tools didn't work quite right, but well enough to get the job done.
Note that these were the solid chains, not the master link style.
TooManyToys
Well-Known LVC Member
What did you find lacking in the tools?
Did you happen to check the difference in length of the new vs old secondary chains?
Did you happen to check the difference in length of the new vs old secondary chains?
mikeyswood
Active LVC Member
I been driving the chains for six months now and I cannot say enough good things about them and Chris.
Great fix, great product, and excellent service.
Great fix, great product, and excellent service.
oddball
Dedicated LVC Member
I didn't check the chains, but I doubt mine were in bad shape. It was one of those "just bought the car, don't want it to explode, let's just consider it a warranty expense". My '02 actually had the metal body tensioners, and I'm fairly certain they were stock based on the wear patterns.
The cam alignment tool juts out the wrong direction, so you can't use the middle bolt. This is not a big deal at all.
The leverage arm that holds the sprocket while tightening did not quite clear the LS sprocket mount, so it didn't sit flush and therefore couldn't get good force on it. Also only one orientation worked at all. Clearancing the tool would have fixed it, but I figured that would be a no-no on rentals. If you have some basic fab skills it would be easy to make. So my exhaust cams may be out by some fraction of a degree, but everything runs just fine.
The cam alignment tool juts out the wrong direction, so you can't use the middle bolt. This is not a big deal at all.
The leverage arm that holds the sprocket while tightening did not quite clear the LS sprocket mount, so it didn't sit flush and therefore couldn't get good force on it. Also only one orientation worked at all. Clearancing the tool would have fixed it, but I figured that would be a no-no on rentals. If you have some basic fab skills it would be easy to make. So my exhaust cams may be out by some fraction of a degree, but everything runs just fine.
G-RELL
FULLY DIPPED LS
Is the reason for the master link chain just make it easier to get on???
mikeyswood
Active LVC Member
Yes. You can replace the tensioners in about three hours.
TooManyToys
Well-Known LVC Member
If you want to keep and replace the endless style factory chain with the same type you have to pull off the sprockets (and variable timing for later years), which means getting down into the primary chain area by pulling the front cover. Lots of work and you have to evac the AC and pull the compressor. So far I haven't found anyone who has said you don't have to fully remove the compressor.
With the master linked chain you can cut and break the OE endless chain and install the master linked chain by keeping the primary system alone.
I don't know of any auto manufacturer who has not used an endless timing chain, probably due to the concern the master link may come apart. That used to freak us out on motorcycles, especially racing, so many would either manually rivet the chain together or use safety wire and silicone to capture the master link parts. That's fine on a drive chain for a motorcycle, but not what you want to have on the inside of a motor should the silicone or wire come loose.
With the master linked chain you can cut and break the OE endless chain and install the master linked chain by keeping the primary system alone.
I don't know of any auto manufacturer who has not used an endless timing chain, probably due to the concern the master link may come apart. That used to freak us out on motorcycles, especially racing, so many would either manually rivet the chain together or use safety wire and silicone to capture the master link parts. That's fine on a drive chain for a motorcycle, but not what you want to have on the inside of a motor should the silicone or wire come loose.
oldhead
Active LVC Member
Do anybody know the year when ford made the change to the metal body chain tensioner.
Master Links
Yeah, I raced Karts for 8 years and NEVER used a master link, everybody had the tool for breaking and resetting endless chains. Saw a chain come apart and become imbedded in a dude's tricep muscle. Not pretty.
Unfortunately I did the Christopher's master link deal a few thousand miles ago and every time I rev the motor I think about those MLs. In my case (Gen 2) it didn't solve my startup rattle issue and the original chains and tensioners looked pretty darn good at 124k miles. :slam
Yeah, I raced Karts for 8 years and NEVER used a master link, everybody had the tool for breaking and resetting endless chains. Saw a chain come apart and become imbedded in a dude's tricep muscle. Not pretty.
Unfortunately I did the Christopher's master link deal a few thousand miles ago and every time I rev the motor I think about those MLs. In my case (Gen 2) it didn't solve my startup rattle issue and the original chains and tensioners looked pretty darn good at 124k miles. :slam
TooManyToys
Well-Known LVC Member
oddball
Dedicated LVC Member
I think some/all '02's had the later tensioners. Go figure.
TooManyToys
Well-Known LVC Member
Great info, thanks.
So all the vehicles post build date of 4/15/02 used the 2W9Z-6K254-BA and
2W9Z-6K254-CA metal bodied tensioners. Sounds like Gen2 guys are covered for that.
Now the question is have any Gen2 owners had the top tensioners plastic sections come apart.
--------------------------------------
RCodePaul,
So from your message, the Gen2 plastic sections looked good on your uppers. Since you have a rattle, did you check your primaries at all or did you leave the bottoms alone?
So all the vehicles post build date of 4/15/02 used the 2W9Z-6K254-BA and
2W9Z-6K254-CA metal bodied tensioners. Sounds like Gen2 guys are covered for that.
Now the question is have any Gen2 owners had the top tensioners plastic sections come apart.
--------------------------------------
RCodePaul,
So from your message, the Gen2 plastic sections looked good on your uppers. Since you have a rattle, did you check your primaries at all or did you leave the bottoms alone?
hite337
Hite Performance
My 02 also has the metal bodied secondary tensioners. I didnt think they were available by 02 either. Thanks to marcredd now we know.
I heard a rattle in the morning when I first noticed it sounded very odd
and so i thought of this thread and sure enough my LS has fallen victim to the plastic tensioner failing on the passenger side.
I called the local Ford dealer and the guy gave me a quote of $3800 out the door...
i called a friend of mine that owns a quite a few Jaguar XJR and he said if i can provide the parts he can do the job for $680.I orderd this kit http://stores.christophersforeignca...n-LS-timing-chain/Detail.bok?category=LINCOLN
G-RELL
FULLY DIPPED LS
cool your getting it all done! if it was just the uppers, Id say do it your self, but 680 for everything is very tempting
TooManyToys
Well-Known LVC Member
I don't plan on going into business with this, but if anyone wants the same "kit" for the post 5/14/01 vehicles that I just bought from my Ford Dealer I'll get you another one at my price. PayPal would add 0.035% and $12.85 for shipping. I'd take USPS MO if you don't want to pay the PayPal fee.
My Ford/Lincoln dealer mechanics said it's rare for the updated Primary Chains to be an issue so I'm giving those as an option, as well as parts you would need that are not included in the on-line "Kit". Ford states in the manual that the cam and crank bolts are to be replaced.
My eBay ID is Jack*s-Garage and Audiogon is fmtrvt for reference. I'm only going to do one or two of these as I'm not making a dime on this. It will take the dealer 2-3 days to get all the parts in before I can ship.
My Ford/Lincoln dealer mechanics said it's rare for the updated Primary Chains to be an issue so I'm giving those as an option, as well as parts you would need that are not included in the on-line "Kit". Ford states in the manual that the cam and crank bolts are to be replaced.
My eBay ID is Jack*s-Garage and Audiogon is fmtrvt for reference. I'm only going to do one or two of these as I'm not making a dime on this. It will take the dealer 2-3 days to get all the parts in before I can ship.
G-RELL
FULLY DIPPED LS
can you get just the secondary "kit" any cheaper than Christophers Secondary Chains?
TooManyToys
Well-Known LVC Member
If you're going to replace the secondary chains with the Ford unbroken chain, you are going to have to pull down the front cover so you can remove both sprockets. Then you're all the way in and might as well do all the potential problem parts.
If you're just going to do the upper tensioners on a post 5/14/01 vehicle, if you are willing to unbolt the exhaust sprocket only, or loosen the exhaust cam to lift the chain out of the way, then you only need the VC gasket kit and the upper tensioners. (2 VC Kits, 2 Upper Tensioners: $196 + fee + SH; 2 exhaust cam bolts add $7). Pre 5/14/01 you also need longer upper tensioner bolts (add $3) and the cam bolts are more expensive (add $10 instead of $7).
You will need to rent / buy the tools to hold the exhaust cam sprocket and cam while you do the torque / 90° rotation of the cam bolt if the sprocket is removed (best method). Unbolting and lifting the cam has been done, but there is one report on this forum and another on the Jag forum where the cam was broken while carefully tightening it back down with the cam flats up. It sounds like it can be done better if the exhaust cam is rotated so the valves are at their least amount of combined lift (flats still in sync, just not parallel to the VC gasket surface), but that's more risk then I'm willing to take.
If you're just going to do the upper tensioners on a post 5/14/01 vehicle, if you are willing to unbolt the exhaust sprocket only, or loosen the exhaust cam to lift the chain out of the way, then you only need the VC gasket kit and the upper tensioners. (2 VC Kits, 2 Upper Tensioners: $196 + fee + SH; 2 exhaust cam bolts add $7). Pre 5/14/01 you also need longer upper tensioner bolts (add $3) and the cam bolts are more expensive (add $10 instead of $7).
You will need to rent / buy the tools to hold the exhaust cam sprocket and cam while you do the torque / 90° rotation of the cam bolt if the sprocket is removed (best method). Unbolting and lifting the cam has been done, but there is one report on this forum and another on the Jag forum where the cam was broken while carefully tightening it back down with the cam flats up. It sounds like it can be done better if the exhaust cam is rotated so the valves are at their least amount of combined lift (flats still in sync, just not parallel to the VC gasket surface), but that's more risk then I'm willing to take.
I heard a rattle in the morning when I first noticed it sounded very odd
and so i thought of this thread and sure enough my LS has fallen victim to the plastic tensioner failing on the passenger side.
I called the local Ford dealer and the guy gave me a quote of $3800 out the door...
I orderd this kit http://stores.christophersforeignca...n-LS-timing-chain/Detail.bok?category=LINCOLN
Need help? I got dynamite!
oddball
Dedicated LVC Member
Jack, your dealer can get dampener bolts? When I tried a year ago, there was no inventory.