Cannot locate fuel pressure test location. No Schrader valve on My LS V8

Lincoln LS

  1. jimmy McGill

    jimmy McGill LVC Member

    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2019
    Location:
    houston TX
    I have the dreaded "Crank No Start", no CEL, OBDII Scan finds ZERO MIL issues, and I've replaced COP's, Spark Plugs, Valve Gaskets, Fuel Pressure Sensor, Degas Bottle (aluminum), and installed a K&N Typhoon Cold Air intake system that is custom fit for the 2005 Lincoln LS 3.9L V8. New Throttle Body, MAP sensor, and Fuel Filter as well. Car was running fine after changing valve gaskets on passenger side until I attempted to bleed the new aluminum degas bottle. I was in garage and pushing the rpm's to 3000 to get the coolant to flow out of bleeder valve (per the advice of a member with aluminum degas bottle whom had the same issue of not getting it to bleed after installation). My OBDII Scanner showed "CL-Fault" and "OL-Drive" a couple of times (or vice versa, CL-Drive or OL-Fault, I cannot recall which) as I revved the engine. Suddenly the engine began to shake roughly, until it slowly sputtered and died. Now the car will not start. It cranks fine (I changed the COP's and Spark Plugs((NGK Laser Iridium Spark Plugs)) after the engine shut down on me) and all lights show on dash as they should when the PCM or ECU finds no issues. I am trying to find out where to connect my Fuel Pressure Gauge and for some reason my 2005 LS does not have a Schrader Valve. I have looked all over the internet and cannot find good info for my model LS. I have tested fuel pump relay, inertia switch, MAF sensor, CAM sensors have good wiring, and Fuel pump hums when I turn Key to "ON" position. I am really needing some help here. If someone can please give me some advice or insight I'd greatly appreciate it. I'm a DIY'er and I don't have the money to send to a shop (not that I trust any of the shops or dealerships around here even if i did have the cash). I'm so close to having this thing running like a dream and it was until I changed valve gaskets on passenger side and tried to bleed degas bottle. Please, HELP!!! Thank you
     
  2. John_Carr

    John_Carr LVC Member

    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    4
    Joined:
    May 22, 2015
    Location:
    Cherry Hill, NJ, USA
    Here's a clue to check.
    (Added a 5v power supply to the ref side of the fuel rail pressure sensor and have it running perfectly. But I don't know why I have only 1volt on my 5v reference from the ECM? Would it be a bad ECM or Could it be it needs reflashed to adjust the voltage to proper limits? Best Wishes!
    Top
     
  3. jimmy McGill

    jimmy McGill LVC Member

    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2019
    Location:
    houston TX
    My OBD2 Scan shows my FRP at .5 until I crank it and it drops to .3 to.1, could that mean I have a pinched wire? I have checked and checked, and still have not found pinch,or break in wiring. BTW thank you for the reply and advice
     
  4. AmsterDutch

    AmsterDutch Dedicated LVC Member

    Messages:
    1,646
    Likes Received:
    264
    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2017
    Location:
    Midwest
    Yes to reset any of the Modules back to factory settings I would imagine disconnecting the battery for 15-20 minutes would do the trick if that is what is going on here...otherwise I didn't hear you say if all the fuses are looking functional...I once experienced a no start issue (after messing around with COP's and plugs) and found in the engine compartment I had my COP's fuse blow out...basically just a reminder if you didn't run through some of the primary fuses that it might be a good idea to check some of the more prominent ones that are required in order to start the car. If you want to be 100% reassured that it's not a fuel issue ...starter fluid is a wonder friend...if you have someone who can spray while you try to turn the car over...otherwise check the diode or megafuse 175w in back of trunk to be sure the PCM is getting power...last but certainly not least if you have an air leak this could/would prevent the car from firing up...double check all the air lines are hooked up including the cold air intake...speaking of the intake ...double check the intake manifold is properly torqued to specifications also...good luck
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • joegr

      joegr Dedicated LVC Member

      Messages:
      19,886
      Likes Received:
      1,498
      Joined:
      Dec 10, 2005
      Location:
      Gulfport
      The reference voltage is different than the sensor voltage. He's talking about the reference.

      There's no programming for that. The three possibilities that I can think of are:
      1. You are measuring wrong. (I assume this is not true.)
      2. The reference is being overloaded by a nearly shorted wire or one of the several sensors that it goes to.
      3. The PCM has an internal fault.
       
    • jimmy McGill

      jimmy McGill LVC Member

      Messages:
      32
      Likes Received:
      0
      Joined:
      Dec 20, 2019
      Location:
      houston TX
       
    • jimmy McGill

      jimmy McGill LVC Member

      Messages:
      32
      Likes Received:
      0
      Joined:
      Dec 20, 2019
      Location:
      houston TX
      All good points, and much appreciated. I will check and re-check the wiring again and again, and pray that it is 1) the issue and 2) an easy fix. I really don't want to deal with a PCM issue, not at this point. Thank you for your prompt response and insight into my issue.
       
    • AmsterDutch

      AmsterDutch Dedicated LVC Member

      Messages:
      1,646
      Likes Received:
      264
      Joined:
      Jul 9, 2017
      Location:
      Midwest
      OL-Drive often means the PCM is messing with something and has temporarily suspended closed loop. E.g. WOT (wide open throttle). E.g. EVAP purge. Basically some event that means it's decided to use fuel maps and the like instead of the O2 sensors.

      You'd expect it to be a very short-term thing. Otherwise, you'd hope to see OL-Fault which means it knows it cannot use the O2 sensor(s). (OL-Drive means it's chosen not to use the O2 sensor as opposed to being forced not to use it.)

      The Load is about at max so is probably a reflection of something like WOT.
       
    • jimmy McGill

      jimmy McGill LVC Member

      Messages:
      32
      Likes Received:
      0
      Joined:
      Dec 20, 2019
      Location:
      houston TX
      All fuses do look functional, but (to be sure) I ordered a few new relays, the fuel pump relay in particular is the one I'm hoping will solve this issue. The K&N Typhoon CAI I recently installed fits perfectly save for one issue.....the cheap black plastic air tube (Short comes out of Valve Cover) broke while I was trying to fit it to the K&N CAI tubing. I ordered another one and it simply will not go on tube without extreme force (hence the breaking of the first one) so I am using the broken one with a few modifications, however, I don't believe it is leaking, and if it is, it did not keep the car from running like a champ after installation. This issue just started after I replaced valve cover gaskets. My fuses and relays all seem fine, I replaced all mini-fuses after this crank no start issue began. What concerns me is the violent way in which the engine idled, shook and slowly died as I was revving it to bleed new aluminum degas bottle, right after changing valve cover gaskets.
       
    • jimmy McGill

      jimmy McGill LVC Member

      Messages:
      32
      Likes Received:
      0
      Joined:
      Dec 20, 2019
      Location:
      houston TX
      Yes, I saw this info as well, I just find it strange that it would say OL-DRIVE while I was in park, just wanted to verify if that is a normal thing.
       
    • AmsterDutch

      AmsterDutch Dedicated LVC Member

      Messages:
      1,646
      Likes Received:
      264
      Joined:
      Jul 9, 2017
      Location:
      Midwest
      What do your spark plugs look like? Is there a significant amount of oil on them? I'm askingvvecause you mentioned a couple times that this issue happened after you changed the valve cover gaskets ...are the gaskets and O ring gaskets properly installed and keeping the fluid off your plugs? What else did you change out besides the degas reservoir? Did anything get wet from the coolant when you changed it out? There is just so many possibilities that a no start issue could be ...and that's even beside the issue of a wire that could be shorted
       
    • SteveOwens

      SteveOwens LVC Member

      Messages:
      46
      Likes Received:
      4
      Joined:
      Jun 24, 2015
      Location:
      Magnolia
      Check the battery ground in the trunk. If that is it, get #4 welding cable & run to the starter bolt with soldered copper ends of coarse.
       
    • SteveOwens

      SteveOwens LVC Member

      Messages:
      46
      Likes Received:
      4
      Joined:
      Jun 24, 2015
      Location:
      Magnolia
      The Schrader valve issue, get a Mallory 3160 5 micron filter assembly located under your left foot and install a Shrader valve in the input/output ntp ports so you can can the use 3M fuel injection cleaning kit to clean injectors once in a while. Use Aeroquip 3/8 fuel hose with triple clamps.
       
    • jimmy McGill

      jimmy McGill LVC Member

      Messages:
      32
      Likes Received:
      0
      Joined:
      Dec 20, 2019
      Location:
      houston TX
      The spark plugs and valves are spotless. There was oil in the valves (Not every valve but a few) which is why I changed the gaskets and seals. I have tried to start the car since it shook, sputtered and slowly died while I was revving it at idle to bleed degas. Cranks, all lights come on as they should, I can hear the fuel pump hum as I turn the key to "ON" position. My OBD2 scanner is not reading any pending codes. Did not get coolant on anything, it did not overheat and spew out. The spark plugs are brand new NGK Laser Irudium .44 (or.044, whichever is correct gap for this vehicle). New COP's as well. I believe the COP's are the issue. They were half the price of my 8 spark plugs. I paid $40 for 8 COP's. I believe they are cheap and "cheap". I am going to put the old COP's back on and see if this fixes the issue. The valves are still clean and no sign of oil now. I changed out fuel pump relay with new one, all fuses are brand new, new throttle body, fuel pressure sensor, MAP sensor, just a total tune up. New Cold air intake (K&N Typhoon series/in my profile pic). The spark plugs are top dollar, I know I should have spent more on the Coil on Plugs but thought I could get away with saving some money. I hope this is the issue. I can't tell if I am getting a spark. I don't have anyone to help me crank it as I perform spark test. Is there another way to test for spark? Also, my OBD2 reads my spark adv at .10 or 10. Battery is good, I charge it with trickle charger when it dies (from cranking and not starting after about a week). OBD2 reads 12 Volts for battery. I'm about to head to garage now and change COP's back to older set and see if this works. Thank you for the advice and if you have any more I would appreciate it.
       
    • jimmy McGill

      jimmy McGill LVC Member

      Messages:
      32
      Likes Received:
      0
      Joined:
      Dec 20, 2019
      Location:
      houston TX
      I appreciate the advice but I honestly I have no idea what you are referring to. Located under my left foot?
       
    • joegr

      joegr Dedicated LVC Member

      Messages:
      19,886
      Likes Received:
      1,498
      Joined:
      Dec 10, 2005
      Location:
      Gulfport
      This statement is confusing to me. Are you really trying to say that there was some oil down in some of the spark plug wells?
       
    • jimmy McGill

      jimmy McGill LVC Member

      Messages:
      32
      Likes Received:
      0
      Joined:
      Dec 20, 2019
      Location:
      houston TX
      Could a failed O2 sensor cause this? I was getting a code for Bank 1 Sensor 2 ( I may be wrong about which bank and sensor/wrote it down but can't find paper I wrote it on) before this issue, while I could still drive the car. Now the OBD2 reads .99 (or 99.0) for one of my O2 sensors while car is not running (obviously because it won't start). That number seems high for a sensor that is not even under load of engine being on and running. I could be wrong but I don't recall that number being so high on any of my O2 sensor readings. Just a thought. Trying to give you as much info as possible so we can narrow down the problem. I also sprayed starter fluid into throttle and was lucky enough to have a neighbor available to try to crank the car as I did this to rule out a fuel pressure issue. New fuel filter as well.
       
    • jimmy McGill

      jimmy McGill LVC Member

      Messages:
      32
      Likes Received:
      0
      Joined:
      Dec 20, 2019
      Location:
      houston TX
      Yes sir, there was some oil in the valves (maybe a bit below an inch or half an inch in valve #4, and #3). I attributed this to the car having been sitting un-used for 2 years. The oil in the valves is why I changed the gaskets. Don't tell me it something more serious.
       
    • jimmy McGill

      jimmy McGill LVC Member

      Messages:
      32
      Likes Received:
      0
      Joined:
      Dec 20, 2019
      Location:
      houston TX
      There is no oil in the wells now, but the car has not been running either.
       
    • jimmy McGill

      jimmy McGill LVC Member

      Messages:
      32
      Likes Received:
      0
      Joined:
      Dec 20, 2019
      Location:
      houston TX
      What does this mean? The car ran fine (even with the oil in the wells) until I cleaned the wells, the valve covers, and replaced all gaskets and seals.
       
    • joegr

      joegr Dedicated LVC Member

      Messages:
      19,886
      Likes Received:
      1,498
      Joined:
      Dec 10, 2005
      Location:
      Gulfport
      This is not making any sense to me at all.
      The valves are solid metal, so there can't be oil in them.
      The valve stems are soaked in flowing oil, as are the camshaft lobes. The valves themselves should be mostly dry of oil. Of course, valve stem seals can leak, but the only fix for that is replacing the valve stem seal.
      There's no way for you to even see the valves without taking the intake manifold off.
      Could you post a picture of what you are calling the valves?
       
    • jimmy McGill

      jimmy McGill LVC Member

      Messages:
      32
      Likes Received:
      0
      Joined:
      Dec 20, 2019
      Location:
      houston TX
      The valves I'm referring to are what these coil on plugs are sitting in. Lincoln COP's.jpg
      Sure, I'll post it in a bit. The spark plug wells, where you screw in the spark plugs, had a build up of oily fluid that was visible after taking coil on plugs out and shining a flashlight into the well/valve. The old spark plugs (still plugged in of course) were sitting in this fluid. However, the car still ran fine. Since I have already replaced so many other parts on the car I decided to get new Spark plugs and COP's as well. I took out old plugs, COP's and cleaned the spark plug wells. I then installed new spark plugs and COP's as well as new valve cover gaskets and o-rings.
       
      Last edited: Jan 24, 2020
    • jimmy McGill

      jimmy McGill LVC Member

      Messages:
      32
      Likes Received:
      0
      Joined:
      Dec 20, 2019
      Location:
      houston TX
      Here is an example of the valves without the valve cover. The 4 Holes are what I am talking about. You can see inside them even with the valve cover over it and the spark plugs installed (Just need to remove the coil packs) Without Valve Cover_.jpg
       
    • jimmy McGill

      jimmy McGill LVC Member

      Messages:
      32
      Likes Received:
      0
      Joined:
      Dec 20, 2019
      Location:
      houston TX
       
    • jimmy McGill

      jimmy McGill LVC Member

      Messages:
      32
      Likes Received:
      0
      Joined:
      Dec 20, 2019
      Location:
      houston TX
      Spark plug valves, wells, "holes". Maybe I'm not using the correct terminology but hopefully the pictures help you to understand what I am talking about.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1

      Share This Page

      1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
        By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.