Brake job gone bad, need advice

fudgedelic

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Basically to keep things short here after a 3 hour battle with my rear brakes i got the calipers pushed back in, new pads on, and everything seemed go to go. Started up the car and immediately was informed about low brake fluid level, which i checked the resevoir in the head and it is bone dry now, also the e brake light is illuminated and will not go away. Tried shifting it into R, bad idea. Absolutely no braking pressure, had to pull the e brake fully to basically just slowly roll to a stop. Is my brake fluid so drained that there's just no pressure anymore? Or do you think i have air trapped in the lines now? Just wondering if there's anything topping off the brake fluid will do or will it be getting a tow to the shop. Thanks in advance.
 
There's something wrong, like a bleeder screw being open. When you pushed the piston back in, the fluid level in the master cylinder should have gone up, not down. When the system pressurizes and pushes the caliper back out, the level would go down again, but still not as far as it was before the change.

I'm guessing that you'll find a pool of brake fluid around one or both of the rear wheels where a bleeder screw is open, or a connection is loose, or a line is cracked. The ABS system uses a pump to pressurize the braking system, so it's probable that once you turned the key on, it started pumping the fluid out, giving you the dry reservoir.

Once you find and fix the leak, you'll most definitely need to bleed the brakes at all four wheels, because you almost certainly have air in the lines.
 
Thanks for the reply, that was kind of what i was thinking and what i was afraid of. Can anyone give me information on how to bleed the brakes exactly, tools needed, time, difficulty, etc. I really don't spend much time going beyond very basic things with my car. Or on a similar note anyone in the mpls/st. paul area that feels like making 100 bucks today to bleed my brakes :)
 
I believe the e brake light is also a warning light for pressure differential which is why it's on. You absolutely need to bleed the brakes now..starting with the furthest from the master cylinder and working forward. However, if you have not done this before, get help from someone who has. There is a technique involved. Otherwise, take it to a shop and have it done. I believe whole heartedly in performing your own work. Nothing more satisfying. But something like the brake system is nothing to learn on. The risk from doing something wrong is too great and you could end up tragically hurting yourself or some innocent third party. Play it smart and get someone involved who knows what they're doing or have it done professionally.
 
if the fluid got LOW then there's a leak. there's really no reason during changing brakes to have air enter the lines unless something was broken and or disconnected in the process.
 
beaups said:
if the fluid got LOW then there's a leak. there's really no reason during changing brakes to have air enter the lines unless something was broken and or disconnected in the process.

I'm wondering if he didn't completely remove the calipers to get the pistons turned back in....
 
2001LS8Sport said:
I believe the e brake light is also a warning light for pressure differential which is why it's on. You absolutely need to bleed the brakes now..starting with the furthest from the master cylinder and working forward. However, if you have not done this before, get help from someone who has. There is a technique involved. Otherwise, take it to a shop and have it done. I believe whole heartedly in performing your own work. Nothing more satisfying. But something like the brake system is nothing to learn on. The risk from doing something wrong is too great and you could end up tragically hurting yourself or some innocent third party. Play it smart and get someone involved who knows what they're doing or have it done professionally.

I agree with you, and didn't realize what a pain the rear brakes were on this car when i started. I've gone through countless other pad replacements, just nothing like this. Those things aside im more than happy to have someone do it, and i was serious about paying someone if they are in Minnesota and want to give me a hand, my garage is heated so it's not bad :) I'm figuring at this point i have no real choice but to have it towed to a shop, and have it done. That also means taking tomorrow off, so it's not all bad.
 
Bleeding brakes is not a difficult job I find. It is just time consuming and messy. The advice you have gotten thus far is all good. You said your resivoir was dry? Where did all that fluid go? Did you find any leaks or did you loosen the bleeder screws when you changed the pads? Unless you have a vaccuum bleeder tool you will need someone to help. You need to fill the resivior, pump the pedal loosen the bleeder then tighten back up when fluid comes out, move from furthest to closest and repeat as needed. Make sure to keep fluid in resivior or you will have to start all over(will suck air when empty). You can probably find a million and 1 tech articles on the web on DIY.Supplies Required
You will need the following tools:

· Box-end wrench suitable for your car's bleeder screws. An offset head design usually works best.
· Extra brake fluid (about 1 pint if you are just bleeding, about 3 if you are completely replacing).
· 12-inch long section of clear plastic tubing, ID sized to fit snugly over your car's bleeder screws.
· Disposable bottle for waste fluid.
· One can of brake cleaner.
· One assistant (to pump the brake pedal).
Vehicle Preparation and Support
1. Loosen the lug nuts of the road wheels and place the entire vehicle on jackstands. Be sure that the car is firmly supported before going ANY further with this procedure!

2. Remove all road wheels.

3. Install one lug nut backward at each corner and tighten the nut against the rotor surface. Note that this step is to limit caliper flex that may distort pedal feel.

4. Open the hood and check the level of the brake fluid reservoir. Add fluid as necessary to ensure that the level is at the MAX marking of the reservoir. Do not let the reservoir become empty at any time during the bleeding process!

Bleeding Process
1. Begin at the corner furthest from the driver and proceed in order toward the driver. (Right rear, left rear, right front, left front.) While the actual sequence is not critical to the bleed performance it is easy to remember the sequence as the farthest to the closest. This will also allow the system to be bled in such a way as to minimize the amount of potential cross-contamination between the new and old fluid.

2. Locate the bleeder screw at the rear of the caliper body (or drum brake wheel cylinder.) Remove the rubber cap from the bleeder screw – and don't lose it!

3. Place the box-end wrench over the bleeder screw. An offset wrench works best – since it allows the most room for movement.

4. Place one end of the clear plastic hose over the nipple of the bleeder screw.

5. Place the other end of the hose into the disposable bottle.

6. Place the bottle for waste fluid on top of the caliper body or drum assembly. Hold the bottle with one hand and grasp the wrench with the other hand.

7. Instruct the assistant to "apply." The assistant should pump the brake pedal three times, hold the pedal down firmly, and respond with "applied." Instruct the assistant not to release the brakes until told to do so.

8. Loosen the bleeder screw with a brief ¼ turn to release fluid into the waste line. The screw only needs to be open for one second or less. (The brake pedal will "fall" to the floor as the bleeder screw is opened. Instruct the assistant in advance not to release the brakes until instructed to do so.)

9. Close the bleeder screw by tightening it gently. Note that one does not need to pull on the wrench with ridiculous force. Usually just a quick tug will do.

10. Instruct the assistant to "release" the brakes. Note: do NOT release the brake pedal while the bleeder screw is open, as this will suck air back into the system!

11. The assistant should respond with "released."

12. Inspect the fluid within the waste line for air bubbles.

13. Continue the bleeding process (steps 11 through 16) until air bubbles are no longer present. Be sure to check the brake fluid level in the reservoir after bleeding each wheel! Add fluid as necessary to keep the level at the MAX marking. (Typically, one repeats this process 5-10 times per wheel when doing a ‘standard' bleed.)

14. Move systematically toward the driver – right rear, left rear, right front, left front - repeating the bleeding process at each corner. Be sure to keep a watchful eye on the brake fluid reservior! Keep it full!

15. When all four corners have been bled, spray the bleeder screw (and any other parts that were moistened with spilled or dripped brake fluid) with brake cleaner and wipe dry with a clean rag. (Leaving the area clean and dry will make it easier to spot leaks through visual inspection later!) Try to avoid spraying the brake cleaner DIRECTLY on any parts made of rubber or plastic, as the cleaner can make these parts brittle after repeated exposure.

16. Test the brake pedal for a firm feel. (Bleeding the brakes will not necessarily cure a "soft" or "mushy" pedal – since pad taper and compliance elsewhere within the system can contribute to a soft pedal. But the pedal should not be any worse than it was prior to the bleeding procedure!)

17. Be sure to inspect the bleeder screws and other fittings for signs of leakage. Correct as necessary.

18. Properly dispose of the used waste fluid as you would dispose of used motor oil. Important: used brake fluid should NEVER be poured back into the master cylinder reservoir!
Vehicle Wrap-Up and Road Test
1. Re-install all four road wheels.

2. Raise the entire vehicle and remove jackstands. Torque the lug nuts to the manufacturer's recommended limit. Re-install any hubcaps or wheel covers.

3. With the vehicle on level ground and with the car NOT running, apply and release the brake pedal several times until all clearances are taken up in the system. During this time, the brake pedal feel may improve slightly, but the brake pedal should be at least as firm as it was prior to the bleeding process.

4. Road test the vehicle to confirm proper function of the brakes. USE CAUTION THE FIRST TIME YOU DRIVE YOUR CAR AFTER MODIFICATION TO ENSURE THE PROPER FUNCTION OF ALL VEHICLE SYSTEMS!
 
Thanks for all the help guys, definitely do not have someone i could do the procedure with, nor do i feel confident in attempting something else. To the shop with it i guess, sigh. Just had a coil replaced for the leaky valve cover yesterday do, car is a money pit.
 
It does cost more to maintain, but it's the price you pay for owning a Lincoln. Imagine the repair bill on MB or similar?! With the help of the knowledgeable people on this site, you can save all kinds of money doing most jobs yourself, and learn about your car at the same time.

But yeah... I wouldn't start with brakes either. Those are pretty critical to keep this 2 ton b*tch under control...
 
How did you push the piston back into the caliper? Did you use the special screw type wrenches that screw the piston back in? Or did you try the old fashioned C clamp and force the piston straight back?

I am wondering if you might have somehow removed the pistons from the calipers to get them in or maybe damaged the piston seal if you tried to force the piston back in. Either way would lose some fluid, damage might be slower and less noticed until you used the brakes.

Just some guessing.

Otherwise as the other guys said the fluid level should have gone up and maybe even overflowed when you screwed the pistons in.

Good Luck,

Jim Henderson
 

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