Bettery or Alternator?

Michael Ryan Wharton

$$ Lincoln LS V8 $$
Joined
Jan 28, 2015
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Location
Cincinnati Ohio, Decatur Alabama
Ok so this morning in -7 degrees i start my car, starts up fine. I let it sit outside for about 20 minutes warming up. I went outside drove it to school and on the way to school i noticed my interior lights being dim, then my headlights all went out, and then my radio turned off. next my advance trac said it needed maintenance. I got to school turned off the car, went to start it back up and sure enough battery is drained and all i hear is a click when trying to start it. Would this be because the alternator is not charging the battery properly or because of the alternator? Right now my car is outside school and wont start after school. so need to know what i should do, buy a alternator or just a new battery. (Hoping for battery)
 
Your alternator has failed. (Even with a bad battery, those things wouldn't have happened if the alternator was operating correctly.)*
It's possible (but not too likely) that you have a bad battery that killed the alternator over time. It's more likely that if your battery is more than two or three years old, your failed alternator has now damaged the battery. You need a new alternator, and if your battery is more than three years old, you should probably just go ahead and replace it too. Be sure to get the OEM (Motorcraft) alternator, and not some aftermarket or aftermarket rebuild. Also, if you replace the battery, be sure to get the correct one with the single vent tube connection, and reconnect the vent.
Do not replace the battery without replacing the alternator, you'll just damage the new battery.

*: There is always the small chance that your problem is a wiring issue instead.
 
I don't think that they coast well at all, because the mounting bracket points keep them from rolling more than a few inches.

A new alternator is $260 from on-line Ford dealers. Your local dealer should be less than $300.
Labor should be about an hour, so whatever an hour costs in your area.
 
FWIW, the last time I looked, I could only find Reman from Motorcraft.

My NAPA unit lasted 4 years with no major concerns. The slip ring was deeply grooved, so I think that was just the end of its service life.

My home rebuild had... issues... I blame the terrible slip ring mounting on the 6G rotors. While it was running, the Transpo regulator worked pretty well. It only sagged under one condition: idle with headlights on and the windows pushing against their stop - ie, continuing to raise the window when it's already closed. It would sag for about half a second then recover.
 
The alternator is a bit of a challenge to replace but not hard. It helps to have someone tell you in advance what the pitfalls are.

The alternator ultimately comes out through the passenger lower A arm. You must be a Tetris master to get it to come out. When you get it to come out, remember how you twisted and turned to get it out because you will have to do this in reverse to put it back. This is also a jack stand job, not a wheel ramp job. You want the front suspension at full extension to make room for the alternator to come out.

The AC lines must be loosened all the way across the front rad support and down the passenger side of the engine. Not removed, but all the line retainer clips must be removed.

The wiring is only accessible when the alternator is completely loose from the engine. When the alt is completely detached from the car you can rotate the alt and get access to the wiring.

There is a blind nut or bolt, can't remember which, on top of the alternator. It is a 10MM.

The passenger side engine mount must be loosened to get the long bolt out of the front of the alternator. It is about 1/2 inches too long to get out of the alternator without doing this. Once the engine mount is loosened, jack the engine up high enough that the bolt will clear. We're only talking a half inch or so. When you jack up the engine you can jack it up on the oil pan as it is a solid cast aluminum piece but you will want a piece of 2x4 between the jack and the oil pan to act as a cushion.

It isn't a hard job to do, except you're on your back for the whole thing. I did an alt removal/replacement on my 2003 V8 (your description doesn't say what year you have) in about 2.5 to 3 hours without a manual and with little advice from the board (didn't really ask either) and worked all this out on the fly. Knowing these things, and at the slow rate I work, I could do another one in about an hour.

On the battery, you must get a vented battery. The dealer is the best source for this, and they are actually competitive with aftermarket sources where batteries are concerned.

Finally, don't replace one (battery or alternator) with plans to replace the other one next paycheck. A dead battery cannot be revived, and it will kill a new alternator trying to recharge it. Conversely, replacing the battery but not the alternator would drain the battery to death. However, if you find you MUST do this, replace the battery first. Drive the car as little as possible like only to work and back, and put the car on a battery charger EVERY night until the alternator is replaced.

If anyone sees any pitfalls I missed on the job post it up, the more info Mike has the better.
 
The alternator is a bit of a challenge to replace but not hard. It helps to have someone tell you in advance what the pitfalls are.

The alternator ultimately comes out through the passenger lower A arm. You must be a Tetris master to get it to come out. When you get it to come out, remember how you twisted and turned to get it out because you will have to do this in reverse to put it back. This is also a jack stand job, not a wheel ramp job. You want the front suspension at full extension to make room for the alternator to come out.

The AC lines must be loosened all the way across the front rad support and down the passenger side of the engine. Not removed, but all the line retainer clips must be removed.

The wiring is only accessible when the alternator is completely loose from the engine. When the alt is completely detached from the car you can rotate the alt and get access to the wiring.

There is a blind nut or bolt, can't remember which, on top of the alternator. It is a 10MM.

The passenger side engine mount must be loosened to get the long bolt out of the front of the alternator. It is about 1/2 inches too long to get out of the alternator without doing this. Once the engine mount is loosened, jack the engine up high enough that the bolt will clear. We're only talking a half inch or so. When you jack up the engine you can jack it up on the oil pan as it is a solid cast aluminum piece but you will want a piece of 2x4 between the jack and the oil pan to act as a cushion.

It isn't a hard job to do, except you're on your back for the whole thing. I did an alt removal/replacement on my 2003 V8 (your description doesn't say what year you have) in about 2.5 to 3 hours without a manual and with little advice from the board (didn't really ask either) and worked all this out on the fly. Knowing these things, and at the slow rate I work, I could do another one in about an hour.

On the battery, you must get a vented battery. The dealer is the best source for this, and they are actually competitive with aftermarket sources where batteries are concerned.

Finally, don't replace one (battery or alternator) with plans to replace the other one next paycheck. A dead battery cannot be revived, and it will kill a new alternator trying to recharge it. Conversely, replacing the battery but not the alternator would drain the battery to death. However, if you find you MUST do this, replace the battery first. Drive the car as little as possible like only to work and back, and put the car on a battery charger EVERY night until the alternator is replaced.

If anyone sees any pitfalls I missed on the job post it up, the more info Mike has the better.

Which is I GLADLY paid the hour's labour to have my mechanic do the job!!!
 
Sure enough alternator. $429 only though so not too bad. I get my baby back Thursday uploadfromtaptalk1424834552444.jpg

uploadfromtaptalk1424834552444.jpg
 
Which is I GLADLY paid the hour's labour to have my mechanic do the job!!!

Nah, it wasn't a bad job. Kinda fun really. The only pisser was not being able to get the one bolt out until I realized jacking the engine up would do it.
 
Please don't crap all over my question, but, what is it about this car that it doesn't do well with after market parts ?
Is it the fact that the window of tolerance is too narrow, and after market parts are not always perfectly to spec to
withstand the LS's high demands ?

Just curious. Living North of the boarder, means you can easily add 30-40% on OEM parts for us. It may even be more.:(
 
Please don't crap all over my question, but, what is it about this car that it doesn't do well with after market parts ?
Is it the fact that the window of tolerance is to narrow, and after market parts are not always perfectly to spec to
withstand the LS's high demands ?

Just curious. Living North of the boarder, means you can easily add 30-40% on OEM parts for us. It may even be more.:(
I have woundered the same thing. But i feel most comfortable putting oem on so i dont have to worry about any future problems or the after market part causing more proble problems than i originally had.
 
Basically it's a PCM vs. regulator controlled alternator. It is more complex than that, though. Search high output alternator......
 
OEM electronics are usually built to more rigorous standards than aftermarket replacement parts. If you want better than OEM you want high performance parts, but they will cost more than OEM. Pricing on parts are in accordance with the received quality, for the most part.

The LS was overthought and poorly engineered by engineers who were apparently not car people (queue fanboys), so you're better off just picking up OEM parts. Well, at least for as long as they are available. On the alternators I have specific proof of the poor engineering, as they changed from the PCM-controlled alternator to a standard alternator control scheme with the 2nd gens. If it was superior engineering they would have stuck with the PCM control scheme.
 
I think they were just trying too many new things with this platform, plus merging Jaguar and Ford parts. I bet it's typical with any new platform. Many of the bugs got worked out, but then it was canceled.

Telco, the job is much easier for me. It's a long bolt at the top that comes out the front with a nut on the back side, both 15mm. Easy with one ratcheting wrench and one normal wrench. I don't have any problem with the bolt sliding all the way out the front. Well, granted, I don't have a fan pump and I have a Gen 2 electric fan.......
His tagline says '02. Maybe alternator replacement is easier on Gen 1 than Gen 2! Woo!
 
I think they were just trying too many new things with this platform, plus merging Jaguar and Ford parts. I bet it's typical with any new platform. Many of the bugs got worked out, but then it was canceled.

Telco, the job is much easier for me. It's a long bolt at the top that comes out the front with a nut on the back side, both 15mm. Easy with one ratcheting wrench and one normal wrench. I don't have any problem with the bolt sliding all the way out the front. Well, granted, I don't have a fan pump and I have a Gen 2 electric fan.......
His tagline says '02. Maybe alternator replacement is easier on Gen 1 than Gen 2! Woo!

Could be. On mine that bolt ran right into the rad support and was just long enough that it couldn't be wiggled out. I agree on them trying too many new things, but they could have put a little more thought into the decision making process on what to try.
 

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