Battery Discharge

[JaysLS]

Ok, I'm sorry but I have no idea where the thread is from my post from back in August. So I'm starting a new thread. Ok, back in August I contacted Joegr about an electrical discharge I was having with my 2004 LS. He gave me a worse case scenario which it turned out to be. The battery continued to discharge so I had it towed to Landmark Lincoln here in Denver. While there, they had to deal with a cooling leak and replaced all three parts of the thermostat housing, thermostat, and other small parts. Of course, the main issue was the discharge. After 2 weeks, they said the problem must have corrected itself and went away. So I picked up the car only to have it die on me four days after getting it. This time, however, I couldn't even jump the car. So had it towed back to Landmark and this time raised the issue of the leak in the moonroof and that may be causing the discharge. They did have to put extentions on the tubes running down the A-pillers to fix it. Now no more water in the lower door pockets, yeah! However, that wasn't what was causing the discharge.

So after fixing the tubes, they told me again that the problem must have gone away and so I went to get the car. By this time, it had been 4 more weeks. They drove, Obsidian, my LS, around to the side of the building for me only for it to completely discharge and not even start again. So I went back inside and told Tom Daniels, the owner of the dealership. He was pissed and just gave me a 2014 MKZ to drive while he got involved. He told me that he stopped taking LSs in as trade ins and won't even sell them anymore because of all the issues. He told me to sell my too, but I'm too stupid, I will keep Obsidian FOREVER!!!! lol

So finally after 4 more weeks, they was able to figure out the "Spark Junction Box" or a fuse panel, was the problem. This is located under the glove box and has fuses on one side and relays on the other. Apparently, the whole entire panel or box, was coming on intermittently and slowly discharging the battery. I've now had Obsidian back for a week and (knock on wood) he's been starting fine everyday.

They told me that Ford no longer makes the Spark Junction Box and they had to find one on ebay for $50. They said that was the only one they could find in the country. I probably should find another LS in a savage yard and get that box just in case.

So has anyone else had a problem with the Spark Junction Box or fuse panel? I just wanted to let everyone know what was causing the discharge in case it happens to you.



Ok, now that those issues have been solved, hopefully, I just had the LCD say something like Fuel computer has failed. It was showing 14 miles to go and then 3 times changed to a message that read fuel computer failed. What controls the fuel gauge? Thanks


UPDATE...FYI, I was looking at Fordparts.com and have found the part causing the discharge, apparently. It's called a Fuse Panel Fuse Junction Block and the part number is 14A068D and it cost $187.25. Oh wait, says it's no longer available. Damn.

 

[joegr]

...Ok, now that those issues have been solved, hopefully, I just had the LCD say something like Fuel computer has failed. It was showing 14 miles to go and then 3 times changed to a message that read fuel computer failed. What controls the fuel gauge? Thanks

The REM reads the two fuel level senders and communicates the values to the cluster via the CAN bus. Usually the fuel data errors are caused by failing fuel level senders. GM has a gasoline additive that is supposed resolve some problems with fuel level senders.

 

[JaysLS]

So does that mean I should plan on buying a new fuel pump with senders???! Looks like a new Motorcraft Fuel Pump and Sender Assembly (9275A - PFS 307) is $1,217.67. If that's what I need, hope NOT, how many hours of labor should I expect Landmark to charge me? I also see a Motorcraft Fuel Sender (9A299 - PS-140) for $105.33. Would I need only that sender and not the one attached to the fuel pump or would I just have to have Landmark figure it out?! Thanks

 

[joegr]

There are two fuel pump assemblies, and each has a fuel level sender. The electric fuel pump and sender is on the passenger side. The jet fuel pump and sender is on the driver's side. I would first determine which is bad, the left sender, the right sender, the wiring, or the REM. I wouldn't just throw expensive parts at it.

 

[JaysLS]

Yes, I really don't want to start spending a lot just to find out its something else. Why does the car have two fuel pumps? Does other cars have two as well? Guess I'll have to have Landmark diagnose it and figure it out.

 

[joegr]

BMWs have two pumps. I assume that some others do as well. It has to do with the shape of the fuel tank. It has two sumps because of the driveshaft passing under it in the center. This could have been avoided by being front wheel drive, by having a smaller fuel tank, or by putting the tank under the trunk (where it throws off balance and ruptures when rear ended).

 

[JaysLS]

Awesome, thanks for the info. Making it front wheel drive would have been fine with me. Well, I guess I'll just have to get the boys at Landmark to look at it, but as far as the parts go, I will have to replace the two fuel pumps at some point, might as well be now. Just the price I pay for wanting to hang onto the car, and give it to my son.

On a side note, thanks for all the information. I learn everything I can from you, others here and the internet, then go to Landmark and play stupid. By playing dumb, and I can do that very well, I really test the honesty of everyone over there. I also can determine who knows there stuff and who is just blowing smoke up my ass. Doing just that I was able to catch the service writer I was working with in several lies. When stating my case to Tom Daniels, and proving the lies, everyone over there sure treated me differently. They realized they needed to be honest or I was going to catch them. They ended up not charging me for the labor of fixing my moonroof tubes and replacing the Fuse Junction block just to make everything cool with me. However, it just comes down to having the knowledge and I wouldn't have that if it wasn't for people like you Joe and others here. So a big thanks!

 

[joegr]

...Making it front wheel drive would have been fine with me...

Blasphemy!

 

[1LoudLS]

Making it front wheel drive would have been fine with me.

I think i just threw up in my mouth a little...


If it was front wheel drive, It wouldn't be a luxury sport car... I believe what you are looking for is a MKZ.

 

[FDR]

Doing just that I was able to catch the service writer I was working with in several lies. When stating my case to Tom Daniels, and proving the lies, everyone over there sure treated me differently. They realized they needed to be honest or I was going to catch them.

What did they lie about?

 

[LS4me]

I think i just threw up in my mouth a little...


If it was front wheel drive, It wouldn't be a luxury sport car... I believe what you are looking for is a MKZ.

I threw up a LOT!!!!!! Were it just another FWD appliance it would have never taken up space in my garage!

 

[1LoudLS]

nor mine.

 

[JaysLS]

Hate FWD all you want, but it would be better and if it makes for only ONE fuel pump, than that would be preferred by me. And no, I had a 2014 MKZ for 5 weeks and didn't like it much. Was very happy to get Obsidian back.

 

[joegr]

I'll bite. How would it be better? You like having way more weight in the front? You like having the front wheels do everything and just drag the back ones along for the ride? You prefer bad handling?

 

[G-RELL]

Hate FWD all you want, but it would be better and if it makes for only ONE fuel pump, than that would be preferred by me. And no, I had a 2014 MKZ for 5 weeks and didn't like it much. Was very happy to get Obsidian back.

Block worthy!!! I'm going to chalk it up to repair frustrations, and not how you truly feel (or being that ignorant on vehicle performance)

 

[1LoudLS]

doesn't like the MKZ at all, but wants front wheel drive so one repair could be easier to test... (regardless of how harder a lot of other repairs are made)... sound logic.

 

[JaysLS]

Yes, I know the LS has a 52/48 weight distribution ratio and that is what makes it handle soooo well!!! I also know that RWD allows for better balance and handling. Yes, I know RWD offers better acceleration and you would NEVER want a race car with FWD!!!! However, I would still prefer FWD even though I would be sacrificing some handling. It just does better in the snow, reduces weight of the vehicle for better fuel mileage (probably another thing you guys don't care about), typically delivers better traction and in many tests has shorter braking distances.

G-Rell, I would say you're ignorant for assuming I want the same things in a car that you do. The Lincoln LS became my "dream car" mostly because of looks and it was a Lincoln (I'm a huge Ford guy). I liked the fact it was a sporty car and a luxury sedan in one. I love the European look and always wanted Lincoln to deliver a car which looked like a BMW. If I have to choose between the two, I will ALWAYS choose the luxury sedan over the sports car - were all of you probably go the sports car route. Performance is NOT my number one priority, thus making me unlike all of you, prefer FRONT WHEEL DRIVE!!!! So my opinion is NOT based on ignorance, repair frustrations, fuel pump issues or whatever else you guys want to come up with. It's just based on the fact I have different priorities than all of you and that's OK.

 

[G-RELL]

Yes, I know the LS has a 52/48 weight distribution ratio and that is what makes it handle soooo well!!! I also know that RWD allows for better balance and handling. Yes, I know RWD offers better acceleration and you would NEVER want a race car with FWD!!!! However, I would still prefer FWD even though I would be sacrificing some handling. It just does better in the snow, reduces weight of the vehicle for better fuel mileage (probably another thing you guys don't care about), typically delivers better traction and in many tests has shorter braking distances.

G-Rell, I would say you're ignorant for assuming I want the same things in a car that you do. The Lincoln LS became my "dream car" mostly because of looks and it was a Lincoln (I'm a huge Ford guy). I liked the fact it was a sporty car and a luxury sedan in one. I love the European look and always wanted Lincoln to deliver a car which looked like a BMW. If I have to choose between the two, I will ALWAYS choose the luxury sedan over the sports car - were all of you probably go the sports car route. Performance is NOT my number one priority, thus making me unlike all of you, prefer FRONT WHEEL DRIVE!!!! So my opinion is NOT based on ignorance, repair frustrations, fuel pump issues or whatever else you guys want to come up with. It's just based on the fact I have different priorities than all of you and that's OK.

A. not a big deal, calm down.
B. Your stating you like OTHER front wheel drive cars, turning a LS into would be a nightmare.
III. Dont be surprised you catch a little flack when you come to an LS Enthusiast forum and say you wish they would have changed one of the area's they got right on this car..YES you have a "unique" opinion, good for you.

 

[JaysLS]

I didn't want to sound like I was in an uproar because I'm not mad about it at all. That's the problem with this form of communication, sometimes people are not sure how to take something you say. You're right though, it's no big deal. It's just my opinion, which in this case, will differ from everyone else's. Yes, I'm not surprised at all that I will get some flack about my opinion on this issue, however, I will stick to it.

I'm actually laughing because it's now like people who argue about Apple products vs. Windows or Android products. I'm a certified computer technician (compTIA A+) and so I understand Apple offers NO advantage and is substantially a lower bang for your buck product, but many will continue to buy it (probably just for the name). I feel like you all are Apple fans and I'm the one lonely person supporting Windows (although I hate Microsoft). This just reminded me of that a little. It's funny to me.

So I'm not mad or upset in any way, but I feel strongly my point is true and I do wish Obsidian was a FWD car.

 

[LS4me]

I had a FWD in snow country. The balance of the car has much, much more to do with the handling than which wheels are the drive wheels. There are more than a few studies that show between FWD and RWD in the snow, RWD wins every time. When the front end loses traction you're just along for the ride until the front tires regain traction (been there, done that, have the skid marks!). FWD does NOT get better MPG than RWD. FWD has the same (possibly more?) drive train losses. The SOLE purpose of the popularity of FWD is the manufacturing process. The manufacturers have sold FWD as the end all to be all and the public has drunk the Kool-Aid. FWD is cheaper to manufacture than RWD and THAT is the reason the public has been sold a bill of goods! FWD is inferior in every way!!

How many race cars are FWD????? Were it better (and racing is more than pure handling) there would be FWD race cars. There are AWD race cars, but again, they are rear biased.

 

[FDR]

I didn't want to sound like I was in an uproar because I'm not mad about it at all. That's the problem with this form of communication, sometimes people are not sure how to take something you say.

Look at how you wrote it:

...!!!... would NEVER want...!!!! ...

...where all of you probably go the sports car route. Performance is NOT ...prefer FRONT WHEEL DRIVE!!!! ...

Capitals are for yelling. Italics are for emphasis. Multiple exclamation points indicated a lot of excitement, multiplying the yelling aspect. I kind of read your post as a heated argument. As stated above, this is basically an LS Enthusiast forum (the entire forum, really, since all the other models featured have other, model-specific forums to read). Most people who are enthusiastic about the LS (and see past it's flaws) can attribute a lot of their affection to the rear wheel drive's characteristics.

How many race cars are FWD????? Were it better (and racing is more than pure handling) there would be FWD race cars. There are AWD race cars, but again, they are rear biased.

Didn't Nissan just do something wonky like that somewhere in the last few months? [just searched] Yes, sort of, they had a 1250HP Le Mans race car that was primarily FWD. The TT V6 powered the front wheels, with electric motors powering all wheels as needed. What a bunch of wierdos.

 

[1LoudLS]

How many race cars are FWD?????

all three of Nissan's GTR Le Mans cars they entered in the race this year...



they qualified dead last in their class (LMP1), roughly 20 seconds slower than the pace setter per lap.

if one was to say that they failed miserably, it would be a slight understatement.

Didn't Nissan just do something wonky like that somewhere in the last few months? [just searched] Yes, sort of, they had a 1250HP Le Mans race car that was primarily FWD. The TT V6 powered the front wheels, with electric motors powering all wheels as needed. What a bunch of wierdos.

actually for the 24 hour race at Circuit de la Sarthe, they were all pure FWD cars... they were not running hybrid systems like the rest of their competition. more like idiots

 

[JaysLS]

I had a FWD in snow country. The balance of the car has much, much more to do with the handling than which wheels are the drive wheels. There are more than a few studies that show between FWD and RWD in the snow, RWD wins every time. When the front end loses traction you're just along for the ride until the front tires regain traction (been there, done that, have the skid marks!). FWD does NOT get better MPG than RWD. FWD has the same (possibly more?) drive train losses. The SOLE purpose of the popularity of FWD is the manufacturing process. The manufacturers have sold FWD as the end all to be all and the public has drunk the Kool-Aid. FWD is cheaper to manufacture than RWD and THAT is the reason the public has been sold a bill of goods! FWD is inferior in every way!!

How many race cars are FWD????? Were it better (and racing is more than pure handling) there would be FWD race cars. There are AWD race cars, but again, they are rear biased.

Sounds a lot like you're letting your personal feelings talk for you. A huge short fall in people is they allow their personal feelings to influence their opinions whether they are correct or not (of course everyone always thinks they are right). I will agree that FWD is cheaper for the manufactures so I can see them pushing FWD on people the way R-value is completely mismarketed to consumers and utterly misunderstood. Of course corporations will mismarket something if their is a gain for them. So we are on the same page with that.

I'm a computer guy and not a car guy. I am a huge Lincoln LS enthusiast and want to learn everything I can about my car, but will say I know the least about the LS of everyone here. It is very easy for me to admit when I don't know something were it's extremely difficult for most to do. The difference between me and most is that when my opinion is challenged (like it is here), I will point the figure at MYSELF (no LSFrank, I'm NOT screaming). This is where true intelligence comes from. It's not based on an I.Q. score, a college degree or a GPA, but "How you Think"!!!! I understand that the only way to better myself is to challenge myself so I will continue to research FWD vs. RWD vs. AWD. Maybe I'm wrong, and if I am, I will correct my opinion, but what makes me so intelligent is when someone has a different opinion then I do, I don't just automatically dismiss it and think that person is a moron and I'm right. That's what most do and that's why people, even ones with Ph.Ds, can be morons.

My point is I think most of what you said is completely wrong, but I will continue to research it help educate myself because being "right" isn't important to me, but being "correct" is. All of you will find that their are misconceptions about every subject matter in life because people, in many cases, form their opinions based on one or two pieces of information which are completely specious and they don't think!!! Furthermore, they never research to make sure that said opinion is correct. Some examples are steroids help baseball players hit homeruns, computer hardware becomes obsolete a month or two later, Apple computers have NO viruses, R-value in walls helps insulate homes, and perhaps...FWD is better than RWD.

If this is just another misconception then I will figure it out and be more than happy to inform all of you that I was wrong and you all are "right". The point is I'm not like most, I always point the finger at myself first to make sure I'm correct. I will say LS4me, you must have forgotten I did say that no one would want a race car with FWD!!! It looks like you glossed over my post, formed an opinion and went with it.

Let me ask everyone here a question. Why is joegr THE SMARTEST person here? No LSFrank I'm not screaming or yelling. I will be very interested in hearing all your answers.

 

[JaysLS]

Look at how you wrote it:



Capitals are for yelling. Italics are for emphasis. Multiple exclamation points indicated a lot of excitement, multiplying the yelling aspect. I kind of read your post as a heated argument. As stated above, this is basically an LS Enthusiast forum (the entire forum, really, since all the other models featured have other, model-specific forums to read). Most people who are enthusiastic about the LS (and see past it's flaws) can attribute a lot of their affection to the rear wheel drive's characteristics.

When I capitalize a word it doesn't mean I'm mad or in a "heated argument" with someone. I will just chalk it up to you not knowing me. I do want to ask if you think I'm a complete moron?! YES, I understand this is a Lincoln LS enthusiast forum which is why I joined it back in August of 2010. BECAUSE I'M A LS ENTHUSIAST!!! No I'm not screaming!

 

[G-RELL]

....writes a novel to show his "feelings" on others needing to be correct....

Oh the quandaries of online forums...

IF you truly felt the way you posted... you would have left off your first three paragraphs.

You dig FWD, all good. enough said.