Elemino
Dedicated LVC Member
They use winter mix here... up to 10% during the summer and none during the winter. They need to get rid of that crap. Its not helping in any way they wanted it to.
avg mpg went from 19 to 16 after new coils
- Thread starter merlon
- Start date
Yea..... Burning food in our gas tanks is just plain stupid!
It's funny, the ethanol is supposed to help reduce emissions right? But you reduce mpg thus creating a need to use more fuel for the same mileage, which definitely increases emissions...
joegr
Dedicated LVC Member
So... The propaganda goes something like this. Carbon dioxide (CO2) released when ethanol is used in vehicles is offset by the CO2 captured when crops used to make the ethanol are grown. As a result, FFVs running on ethanol produce less net CO2 than conventional vehicles per mile traveled.
I think that this was only ever claimed to apply to E85, not E10 or E15. To believe this, you have to believe that CO2 is a bad thing (as opposed to something that increases plant life). You also have to completely ignore all the fuel burned to produce the corn in the first place.
~25+ mpg isn't unheard of (closer to 28 on mine, gen I 3.9), are you guys going by the display or actually doing the math after a fill up to get those figures? That's a mix of stop and go + highway for me
haha i have some haters;
im not sure if you are taking what i said wrong or not; tranny would eventually shift to 5, but if you were consistently running btwn 40-55mph before your pcm&tcc sensor/solenoid had adapted to its 'normal' spec for your tcc you would find your tcc engaging/disengaging (causing rpm increases/mpg decreases) with normal driving and irregular shifting between 4&5, at many times staying in 4 when a properly calibrated pcm would already be in 5 or shifting in/out of 5 when it should stay in 4 (also causing rpm increases/mpg decreases).
Some cars may not have that problem, they may not have been driven while out of spec long enough for the pcm to compensate as heavily. some may be able to change components and get better mpg. but it is possible that this scenario would drop mpg over the period until that parameter for the 4-5 shift is set, which may take some time & mileage esp. for anyone without sst or anyone not actively using sst.
if you think your pcm isnt using every sensor on the car to adjust something else which will ultimately affect a shift timing you should give up your high-tech ls and get something more on your level. i would suggest this: http://www.classicarabia.com/uploads/photos/RS_Cars_539_Front_Side_608_1256136783.jpeg
go clean your maf or your throttle body, or pull a junk cop and replace with new and tell me you dont have different shift pattern and SOMEWHAT different mpg bc of it (maybe better, maybe worse). wait dont do that, youre probably one of those ppl who thinks you cant clean a 03+ ford throttle body too! i dont want to start another insignificant debate with you..
excerpt from 05_tech_man_ual:
Transmission electronic control system:
Electronic system description:
The powertrain control module and its input/output network control the following transmission operation:
Shift timing
Line pressure (shift feel
Torque converter clutch
The transmission control strategy combined with the engine control provides optimum powertrain operation under all conditions. When determining the best operating strategy for transmission operation, the PCM uses input information from certain engine-related and driver-demand related sensors and switches.
In addition, the PCM receives input signals from certain transmission-related sensors and switches. The PCM also uses these signals when determining transmission operating strategy.
Using all of these input signals, the PCM can determine when the time and conditions are right for a shift, or when to apply or release the torque converter clutch. It will also determine the pressure needed to optimize shift feel. To accomplish this, the PCM uses 3 pressure controls, 1 torque converter clutch and 4 shift solenoids to control transmission operation. THE FOLLOWING PROVIDES A BRIEF DESCRIPTION OF EACH OF THE SENSORS AND ACTUATORS USED TO CONTROL TANSMISSION OPERATION:
PCM
AC Clutch
Brake Pedal Position switch
Engine coolant temperature sensor
Electronic ignition system
“The electronic ignition consists of a crankshaft position sensor, two four-tower ignition coils and the pcm. The ignition control module operates by sending crankshaft position information from the crankshaft position sensor to the ignition control module. The ignition control module generates a profile ignition pickup (pip) signal (engine rpm) and sends it to the pcm. The pcm uses pop signal in the transmission strategy, wide-open throttle (WOT) shift control, torque converter clutch control and operating pressures”
Intake air temp sensor
MAF
Transmission control switch
TP sensor
Digital transmission range sensor
Turbine shaft speed sensor
Output shaft speed sensor
intermediate shaft speed sensor
Pressure Control Solenoids (PCA, PCB,PCC)
Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) Solenoid
Shift Solenoids — (SSA, SSB, SSC, SSD)
Transmission Fluid Temperature (TFT) sensor
Accelerator Pedal Position (APP) Sensor
Instrument Panel Range Selector indicator
Select Shift Transmission (SST) Switches (+ and -)
For everyone who said ‘bs’ please open your mouth and eat your ‘bs’
im not sure if you are taking what i said wrong or not; tranny would eventually shift to 5, but if you were consistently running btwn 40-55mph before your pcm&tcc sensor/solenoid had adapted to its 'normal' spec for your tcc you would find your tcc engaging/disengaging (causing rpm increases/mpg decreases) with normal driving and irregular shifting between 4&5, at many times staying in 4 when a properly calibrated pcm would already be in 5 or shifting in/out of 5 when it should stay in 4 (also causing rpm increases/mpg decreases).
Some cars may not have that problem, they may not have been driven while out of spec long enough for the pcm to compensate as heavily. some may be able to change components and get better mpg. but it is possible that this scenario would drop mpg over the period until that parameter for the 4-5 shift is set, which may take some time & mileage esp. for anyone without sst or anyone not actively using sst.
if you think your pcm isnt using every sensor on the car to adjust something else which will ultimately affect a shift timing you should give up your high-tech ls and get something more on your level. i would suggest this: http://www.classicarabia.com/uploads/photos/RS_Cars_539_Front_Side_608_1256136783.jpeg
go clean your maf or your throttle body, or pull a junk cop and replace with new and tell me you dont have different shift pattern and SOMEWHAT different mpg bc of it (maybe better, maybe worse). wait dont do that, youre probably one of those ppl who thinks you cant clean a 03+ ford throttle body too! i dont want to start another insignificant debate with you..
excerpt from 05_tech_man_ual:
Transmission electronic control system:
Electronic system description:
The powertrain control module and its input/output network control the following transmission operation:
Shift timing
Line pressure (shift feel
Torque converter clutch
The transmission control strategy combined with the engine control provides optimum powertrain operation under all conditions. When determining the best operating strategy for transmission operation, the PCM uses input information from certain engine-related and driver-demand related sensors and switches.
In addition, the PCM receives input signals from certain transmission-related sensors and switches. The PCM also uses these signals when determining transmission operating strategy.
Using all of these input signals, the PCM can determine when the time and conditions are right for a shift, or when to apply or release the torque converter clutch. It will also determine the pressure needed to optimize shift feel. To accomplish this, the PCM uses 3 pressure controls, 1 torque converter clutch and 4 shift solenoids to control transmission operation. THE FOLLOWING PROVIDES A BRIEF DESCRIPTION OF EACH OF THE SENSORS AND ACTUATORS USED TO CONTROL TANSMISSION OPERATION:
PCM
AC Clutch
Brake Pedal Position switch
Engine coolant temperature sensor
Electronic ignition system
“The electronic ignition consists of a crankshaft position sensor, two four-tower ignition coils and the pcm. The ignition control module operates by sending crankshaft position information from the crankshaft position sensor to the ignition control module. The ignition control module generates a profile ignition pickup (pip) signal (engine rpm) and sends it to the pcm. The pcm uses pop signal in the transmission strategy, wide-open throttle (WOT) shift control, torque converter clutch control and operating pressures”
Intake air temp sensor
MAF
Transmission control switch
TP sensor
Digital transmission range sensor
Turbine shaft speed sensor
Output shaft speed sensor
intermediate shaft speed sensor
Pressure Control Solenoids (PCA, PCB,PCC)
Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) Solenoid
Shift Solenoids — (SSA, SSB, SSC, SSD)
Transmission Fluid Temperature (TFT) sensor
Accelerator Pedal Position (APP) Sensor
Instrument Panel Range Selector indicator
Select Shift Transmission (SST) Switches (+ and -)
For everyone who said ‘bs’ please open your mouth and eat your ‘bs’
Elemino
Dedicated LVC Member
CO² is the new "evil" for environmentalist, because they must always have something to attack. I have a cousin that is an environmentalist. I asked him how could you control a gas that every living animal on the planet produces and plants need to survive... I don't remember, nor care to remember what he said. Just know its what they are after now... and because we could stop driving every car on the planet, shut down every factory, and every electric plant tomorrow and still have CO² production, it will never go away.
Putting ethanol in our gas does nothing but please some dumb ass politician somewhere. It makes EVERYTHING else worse than it was before.
joegr
Dedicated LVC Member
Clearly, you've never looked under the hood of an LS.
The LS uses COPs, not coil packs (or "towers").
The LS has no "ignition control module", this function is a part of the PCM.
The LS gets ignition timing info from one (gen I) or two (gen II) camshaft position sensors, as well as the single crankshaft position sensor.
If you're going to post manual exerts, at least pick one that is for this actual car. Nowhere in your exert (for another car) does it say that shifting into fifth is affected by coil replacement. This is all pointless debate anyway. It's easy for the OP to tell what gear he is in by looking at the tachometer or flicking the gearshift into select mode (the current gear will then show up in the display). It should be in fifth by 30 MPH if not accelerating noticeably.
I think the major thing i was not factoring was how light i was driving it before the cops were changed out. I couldnt give it more than half throttle without it bucking, and i felt uncomfortable driving like that. I just imagined a bunch of unburnt fuel causing untold damage to my cats, and just putted it around at 2k</=, which accounts for getting 19mpg/avg. Now im fully enjoying the cars V8 power and acceleration abilities, perhaps too often, thus leading to 16mpg, but thats still hard to believe.
So ive been driving normal, and the display(any ideas how accurate that is?) is reading 19.5 in mixed driving conditions of about 80/20 Highway/city driving. I still want better. I am not really getting over 2k rpms, and i fully expected a car with working cops to have better mpg than a car without. so i feel like something is still wrong, but ill have to drive it to half a tank and get actual mpg to find out how im doing with my mellow driving style.
So ive been driving normal, and the display(any ideas how accurate that is?) is reading 19.5 in mixed driving conditions of about 80/20 Highway/city driving. I still want better. I am not really getting over 2k rpms, and i fully expected a car with working cops to have better mpg than a car without. so i feel like something is still wrong, but ill have to drive it to half a tank and get actual mpg to find out how im doing with my mellow driving style.
jjcool00
Dedicated LVC Member
I do about the same ratio as you and am getting 22.5 average. I will tell you this: using cruise control will raise your MPG. Does for me anyway. Because the car will drive more efficiently than I will constantly hitting the gas. So I use it as often as I can.
The EPA rating is 17/25. My wife routinely gets upper 15s the way she drives; mostly in-town. If you're worried about mileage you bought the wrong car. I hope you're using "premium" fuel also.
haha you are trying hard to bust my balls, but you are wrong as h_e_l_l. excerpt is from the 2005 ls man_ual check the bottom of the attached. or did i spend the past two days writing that myself and fabricating the screenshots? its not really a pointless debate anymore bc youre wrong wrong wrong. it says the ignition system factors into shift timing & shift strategy, which affects mpg, which was my primary assertion in my first post.
And what you probably call a 'cop' is really 3 pieces: 1 boot, 1 coil, 1 module. the towers are built into the module. the module is usually what gets out of spec on the ls but you may as well buy/replace the boot and the coil while youre at it bc they arent that much more expensive and most vendors sell them as 1 package. These hi-tech cars have all kinds of fancy little parts, try to keep up!
and to address the last portion of your comment:
op doesnt know what rpm his trans would normally shift at bc he said he has been driving with out of spec coils. additionally tcc could engage/disengage due to the sensors i noted, which would cause higher rpm, lower gas mileage, and as you should be aware sometimes feels almost as hard as a shift when in 4or5. lastly op wouldnt know what gear by using sst if he didnt have sst.
dont try to bust my balls if youre not wearin a cup
Thing is my mark viii got comparable mileage. And it was a 95, and weighted more....and a 4.6l, and a 4spd.
I just expected better from on 04, 3.9l 5spd, because I was getting 18-19avg before I changed coils. . And yes I use top tier 91. I thought it would improve not stay the same.
And I so have sst.
I just expected better from on 04, 3.9l 5spd, because I was getting 18-19avg before I changed coils. . And yes I use top tier 91. I thought it would improve not stay the same.
And I so have sst.
This car weighs almost the same as the mark and has the same amount of horsepower and it's a 32 valve V8. The mileage you are getting is normal it's a V8. Drive it really hard and you will average 14mpg.
Ha, yeah ive had a few 15mpg tanks in the mark 8 when i was in a mood to fly.
Okay ill just live with it, i guess im jealous of those averaging 22+....but then again i have 10% ethanol in my gas, and i havent even checked tire pressure so that could be a factor. There are just too many factors for mpg, but i eventually want 22+ if im driving it normally. I mean my mark got 25 on freeways, this gets 22
Do you think having no mufflers is a factor? Thats really the only think different from my v8 and others on the board. The old owner chopped em off, and put in straight pipes. (just got a ticket for 'modified exhaust' the other day actually )
joegr
Dedicated LVC Member
I give up...
You know what, since I replaced my stock mufflers with Magnaflows, I went from mid 25s into the low 26MPG range. It could be the exhaust, or a psychological effect that results in more mellow driving as the engine is easier to hear now.
You can see my MPG progress here: http://www.fuelly.com/driver/m4rk/ls/fuelchart
Note the July 16 fuel up (1st week with Magnaflows)
My 1st fuelup (May 4) since starting my new job resulted in 24MPG. I have since adjusted my driving and squeezed out 25, and even 26.2MPG.
Zero drone. They are pretty quiet, but I am very happy with the tone. It came out European-ish on my LS. I posted a few videos in the video thread. You can find them on my YouTube channel as well: http://www.youtube.com/user/vVeazel/videos
Elemino
Dedicated LVC Member
It might be the camera, but your stock setup sounded pretty damn good merging on the freeway! lol
I definitely want an upgrade, but I want to replace my entire exhaust system, including the cats. I want higher flow, with just enough volume that ppl can tell its a V8 when its idling.
sounds nice. So our stock pipes are 2"?
jjcool00
Dedicated LVC Member
2.25"
Thanks, i was searching and came up with mixed input.
No, 2". It's 2" by my mufflers, and the rest of it looks the same size on my '03. It depends on your car, apparently they're not all the same. Take a caliper to the pipe just before where the mufflers used to be and measure it to be sure.
Lol thanks, but that's the only time you could hear the stock exhaust.
I've been meaning to get a clip of that too..
Lol thanks, but that's the only time you could hear the stock exhaust.
I've been meaning to get a clip of that too..
Could i just buy 2" mufflers and let the shop widen them if its 2.25? the 2" 11224 magnaflows are $60< a piece on amazon.