Audio Problems

nturner

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ok so I just got a new system out in my 01' LS.

Pioneer Head unit, 900 10" solo baric Sub, 1200 Watt Performance Teknique Amp.

I had it installed, sounds nice but one problem. When the bass hits the lights dim. So I asked a friend that has a big system in his car, he says put in a Capacitor. So I had a 1.5 farad capacitor installed and guess what, still the same thing lights dim. Is there something Else I should know or has anyone had this problem before. thanx in advance.
 
I have two solo 12's and a kicker 1200.1kx and the problem I have when the bas hits is I CANT SEE OUT THE WINDSHIELD OR MIRRORS!!!! ITS LOUD<<<I am running 1200watts rms (more liek 1550) and over 2400 Peak.....0 gauge wire and a red top battery with a 2 farad cap.....and My lights dont dime unless I have the a/c on and sitting at a traffic light......

LOVE THE BASS.....good luck
 
So silver maby a bigger cap would help. I was told 1.5 would work but I am seeing that it is not.

Ghostbuster, how big of a alternator can we get a for a LS
 
I would go back and check all your ground wires just in case.just a thought:)
 
Get the Optima............

I would go for the Optima Yellow top battery. It will help. Unless and until you use all of the reserve capacity that it has and the alternator can't keep the battery peaked. The CAP helps, and should be sized according to the load and duty cycle. Go to a good stereo install shop and they should be able to give you a lead on a high output alternator.
 
nturner said:
So silver maby a bigger cap would help. I was told 1.5 would work but I am seeing that it is not.

Ghostbuster, how big of a alternator can we get a for a LS
a bigger cap, lol.

read this-
After studying a little history on large 1 Farad capacitors in car audio, you'd be amazed that they even sell at all. How useful are they? What do they really do? Will a Cap 'improve' my sound quality? Will it Prevent my lights from dimming? Will it audibly affect my audio system in any way?

Before you get the truth to any of the above questions, chances are, you've probably spent $100 or more on one of these devices. However, let's study a little history regarding this issue.

A long time ago, in a land far away, 2 elves...Ok, Richard Clark & Wayne Harris (Carsound magazine and the inventor of DB Drag, respectively) separately came up with a solution to preventing their lights from dimming.

WHO WERE THESE GUYZ?

As you may know, Richard Clark is one of the founders of autosound2000 Tech Briefs, Carsound magazine, and a published author of the industry of mobile electronics. In SQ competitions, he posted a record of 1234 1st place finishes, and only ended up NOT 1st in his first event. I've heard that he had minor system problems, but judging by his record, he must have corrected it. (evidently, he needed a Capacitor )

Wayne Harris was previously a leader at Rockford Fosgate in their development. Later, in his free time, he created the organization we call DB DRAG. Wayne was the first SQ World Champion from the organization we know as IASCA (International AutoSound Challenge Association).

Both of these gurus are both legends, and considered the leading experts in the field. During their competition days, both guyz came up with a way to assist in the prevention of voltage drops. In SQ competitions, the look of your system is actually more important than the sound, and having your lights NOT dim under high playing levels is a competitive advantage.

As you may know, amplifiers are made up a bank of little capacitors, resistors, etc. What has been common engineering knowledge is that capacitors store energy, and more or bigger ones assist in balancing the power supply.

Wayne came up with the idea of putting several dozen 'little' (approx 100uF) capacitors on a circuit board to 'extend' the power supplies storage. At about the same time, or shortly afterward, Richard came up with the idea of one huge mondo capacitor (I believe it was 800,000uF or 0.8F) to do the job.

Eventually, Richard won. The large cylindrical tubes won over the complicated 48 caps strapped to a circuit board. However, what did this really accomplish? Let's start here:

WHAT IS A CAPACITOR?

Basically, capacitors are an energy storage device. Large, 1 Farad or more
capacitors store energy (electrons) between their plates. Capacitors differ
from batteries because batteries store energy in the form of chemical
energy--and rely on acid and lead plates, as the place of storage. For a more detailed
description of a capacitor, go here:

http://www.eatel.net/~amptech/elecdisc/caraudio.htm

Then on the right hand side, scroll down to CAPACITOR. Keep in mind the use
of capacitors in an audio system.

WHY DO PEOPLE BUY CAPACITORS?

The number 1 reason would have to be because their lights dim when their
system is playing HARD. In car audio, we are told that a capacitor is
designed to prevent the voltage drop associated with your lights dimming.
The number2 reason is that it is rumored to 'improve' sound quality or
'stiffen' the power supply/source.

WHY DO MY LIGHTS DIM?

Headlights brightness is in direct proportion to the source voltage. For
instance, if your car is running, system voltage is ~12.5 -14.4 VOLTS. Your
lights will be much brighter than when your car is turned off--where battery
voltage is ~12V. Most car alternators put out between 75 to 120 amps of
current. When this current draw threshold of the charging system is
exceeded, system voltage will drop as power demands are now shared by the
alternator and the storage devices (battery & cap). We are using battery
reserves beyond this point until the demand lessens

When playing your system really hard. Your lights dim because your
alternator can't keep up it's charging voltage (around 13.5V) and therefore,
demand exceeds output. When this happens, your electronic devices are
dipping into the power storage of the battery. Since the battery stores
power at ~ 12-12.5V, there is a 1.3 to 1.8V drop in voltage available. This
in turn is why your lights dim down.

HOW MUCH POWER DOES A CAPACITOR STORE?

1 Farad = 100 joules or 100W/second
850cca battery = ~2,200,000 farads

For storage purposes, you'd need ~2,200 1 Farad capacitors to equal the energy of your battery.

Due to its impedence (ESR & ESL), a cap's energy is only 50% available. What's worse, is that in order for a 1 Farad cap to discharge, first the alternator output must have maxed out, and the voltage must have dropped around 1.5 volts. But I thought a cap was supposed to prevent that (voltage drop)!!!!!????? Yep, you got the point.


IF A BATTERY = 2,200 CAPS, THEN WHY BUY A (PUNY) CAP?

My question exactly. Marketing is the reason why people buy caps. In many cases, upgrading wiring will help your system get the maximum transfer of current. Once that has been reached, adding a capacitor may have a minor effect on your system. 50W over the course of a second is not a lot of power considering an amplifier may draw 2000W to put out 1400 watts. Let's look at the situation from a resources standpoint.

Alternator 80 amps
Car accessories (minus stereo) 40 amps
A large Car Audio system (DRAWS ) ~200 amps AT FULL OUTPUT

In this case, you have 240 amps of draw, but only 80 amps of current from the alternator. In your case, you need 160 amps x 12 volts or or let's say 1920 watts of energy. Since a cap stores 50W, how much of a difference do you think it's going to make? A cap is basically a peashooter. W+e need a Howitzer cannon here, to do the job well.

Also, Once a cap is discharged, where does it get it's power from? The alternator, which is already overloaded. Once a cap is discharged, it's worthless. Like SWEZ says, ・.The cap already shot its wad, an does limp til recharged・ I知 not so certain I will allow him to babysit my kids, but you get the drift. (I never said it quiet like that... and oh...I'm great with kids!)

SO, WHAT IS A CAPACITOR GOOD FOR?

1. Audio Jewelry- impress chicks with large cylindrical shiny thingy
2. Extra weight in winter time
3. A very POOR... BUT expensive distribution block
4. A projectile in the event of a crash
5. Rolling pin--for cooking purposes
6. A neat thing to tell your friend, "..Hey man, lick the top of this..


Please do not try # 6. New hairstyles are always refreshing, but if you are wearing railroad tracks across your teeth, you might have one big filling after it痴 over.

HOW CAN CAPACITORS IMPROVE SOUND QUALITY?

They can't. Sound quality is not dependant upon the presence of large bulky 1 Farad capacitors. How many 1 Farad Capacitors do you think the Boston Pops, Aerosmith, or Snoop dog use in the recording studio?

IN A NUTSHELL.......

When Richard, our fearless inventor, became World renown for winning every competition under the sun, people began copying what he did. Soon, every 'serious' competitor had a 'stiffening' capacitor--not to be confused with the 'loosening' capacitor.

WHY?

In the late 80s, people began sticking out their tongue when dunking the basketball because Michael Jordan did. Did sticking out your tongue improve your dunking ability? Same here with adding a capacitor to your electrical system.

STILL A GLUTTON FOR MORE PUNISHMENT?

Here's the Original Cap Debate.

http://www.carsound.com/ubb/Archives...-1-000307.html

Phoenix Gold's marketing guru had just posted information on how their Powercore (basically the Alumapro CAP15 in a Phoenix shell) had both stabilized their voltage and improved the sound quality. Richard called him on it (all in another post) and the marketing geek was unable to quantify any of the conditions that resulted in the voltage being HELD at 14.2V and the 'improved' sound quality.

Please do not read every stinking post as valid. There are a lot of people that have had the efficacy of capacitors inbred to their minds, and were not (and still not) convinced in the futility of a 1 Farad storage device.

In a final note, Richard relayed a quote regarding battcaps ( www.battcap.net ) as, "..The audio industry is the only place i know of where you can publish specs that show your product is useless and still be able to sell them------and whats worse is that technically ignorant people will argue against the math!!!!!!!..............RC.." when referring to the product. This also relates to most digital readout capacitors, and I wish my Archie Bunker skills could have said it better myself.
 
ghostBuster said:
you eather need another capacitor or a bigger ALTERNATOR
Caps are usless!!


get a bigger ALT.

AN irraggi 220a

pm me for one
 
kudisbetta said:
Caps are usless!!


get a bigger ALT.

AN irraggi 220a

pm me for one

Caps are useless for the purpose that he is trying to use them, but they are useful at keeping the voltages at a constant level. But then again this is all dependant making sure that the voltage is there in the first place. No amount of caps are going to make up for a poor charging system or a weak battery.
 
Available......

SilverLS said:
WAIT so you can get a bigger ALT for the ls I looked and looked but found no leads....I want one.....


I just called two area stereo installers and they both list bigger alternators for LS's 2000 to present. They assured me that they can get high output alternators for any car with an alternator system. Even if they have to be special built.
 
see I tried that too and found no luck.....I talked to PA and they told me becuase of the casing of the LS alt. that they could not make them....and I posted stuff on here and I got nothing....DAMN that sux I paid 200 for a stock one again and 100 to get it installed.....I still would like to upgrade....
 
bufordtpisser said:
Caps are useless for the purpose that he is trying to use them, but they are useful at keeping the voltages at a constant level. But then again this is all dependant making sure that the voltage is there in the first place. No amount of caps are going to make up for a poor charging system or a weak battery.

:I As far as the sound quality goes, certain devices work better at certain voltages. If you look at a lot of the amps they are tested at around 13-14VDC. Well, if you can't hold that voltage the quality starts to drop. I don't believe the alternators were made for such hard surges of energy which causes the voltage to drop which is wear the cap comes in. Its not a matter of using the capacitor as another energy source but more of using it as a cruch in certain times of need.
 
LennDawg said:
so how would you do this on the LS since the battery is in the trunk?
well, the battery has a chassis ground right? i hope! meaning there is a wire going from the neg terminal to a metal piece of the vehicle, simply make that larger and proceed with adjustments under the hood. this process has been known to reduce dimming of exterior/interior lights considerably. another problem he may be experiencing is a less efficent amp than normal, i have never heard of the brand. i am not saying it is bad equipment in the least bit, but more expensive amps tend to be more efficent(require less of the vehicles power) i have a kicker 600.1 that is 720 watts rms in a Honda CRX right now and the lights don't dim at all. it has alot to do with the amp.
 
SilverLS said:
WAIT so you can get a bigger ALT for the ls I looked and looked but found no leads....I want one.....

yes i can get for a very nice price
i CAN GET

Iraggi alts
LS V8
220a
240a

LS v6

220a
240a
260a

look to spend 340
 
first off there are great alts - search ohio generators ask for gus hell explain everything to you and recommend what you need.alts are one way to go i personally think you mightnot be pushing a full 1000+ watts so make sure to recheck your levels and wiring makesure you have brand name wires such as tsunami etc. thenyou can upgrade your battery i run three deep cycle batteries yellowtops as well as a 5 farad cap "the cap". if the battery doesnt help and your wires are good then look into an alt they can be pricey just tryin to save you some cash (bigger rims lol). i run a clean 2200 watts + (144.3 db while under construction) i get extremly minimal dimming when pounding, as in bass at full on my seperate equalizer with an in line driver plus my highs and mids lowered. if you still have problems or dead ends email me ill try and help you out.
 
OUTSTANDING post Swap! Very informative and I have no argument with any of the math, engineering, or physics used. Right on target.

Let's go back about 32 years and look at how Ford handled this very same type or situation. A little known option on the Mark IV in 1974 (gawd...I think it was a IV back then!) was the Gold Edition. When you ordered this, you not only got a very nice gold paint on the car, but you also got windows that had a very thin gold film between window laminates on the entire car. Door glass, windshield, everything. It was actual gold. When you wanted to defrost your windows, you hit the switch and power was applied to the gold film in every window and defrosted them. It was very slick and the one we had worked very well. However, replacement windows were VERY expensive and the option died off. But what was interesting was how Ford handled the power requirements. When you hit the defrost, those windows demanded a tremendous amount of power...more power than the car was able to deliver. So Ford was smart...they installed and wired a complete separate alternator to handle the window requirements. That's right...the car had TWO alternators. High amp alternators had not been developed as of that time and this was their solution.

So in fact, it looks like Ford was doing just what was suggested here...increase the power generating capacities rather than the reserve capacity. And that was over 30 years ago....
 

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