Arrggg, I can't take much more of this SST trans

J

JES_LS

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I really have to get some serious time and 'cookie jar' funds going on, because this crappy SST transmission is really getting to me.

Just in the last day, I have had some seriously annoying and dangerous behavior.

First the trans is shuddering when I have to transition from a crawl (at the point where the trans is about to downshift from 4th/5th to 2nd) to accelerating at any appreciable level. I'm not getting any "E" on the dash, but there is a lot of roughness, noise and indecision in the transmission. The local transmission shop Mgr just listened to my complaint and said that I need to bring it in for a 'complete' Flush-n-fill and then a reset of the computer. Of course I heard him say that to three other customers while I waited to talk to him.

second what is with the crappy downshift logic, I mean I'm rolling down a highway ramp in third and pull back for a downshift. There is no immediate response, so I just forget the downshift and turn my attention back to driving.
More than one heartbeat later, the transmission goes from third to freewheeling and lets the motor just about drop to idle speed. Then another heartbeat goes by before the transmission engages 2nd gear, at that point the motor has to violently rev from near idle to about mid tach and the car lurches like I missed a gear downshifting my motorcycle. It can be so violent that the Stabilitrac will engage for several seconds to try to supress the lurch.

I mean the rest of the crap that this trans is programmed to do I can barely stand, but if this is how a 40,000 mile sst behaves then the trans swap has to occur this fall.
 
I think your have solenoid pack and valve cover problem. I had lots of problems with my tranny too. Had to change those damn things twice, ran me over $2000.
 
well my behavior was similar and my tranny did fail. however the replacement tranny acts the same way. I found a bunch of oil in the cylinder wells. changed vc gaskets. coils arrive this week. I'm really thinking that the car is missing bad enough that it's not producing the amount of power that it "thinks" it's producing. what I mean is scan shows engine load very high and I think it really screws up all the shift points and patterns. I'll let you know what I find out but I have also heard others complain of coils wreaking havoc on trans behavior.
 
Remember, in SST the trans won't down or upshift. It will stay in the selected gear. If you're too fast for the gear, you will bump off the rev limiter. If you come to a stop in 4th or 5th, the trans will shift to 2nd as soon as you get close to a full stop. The trans has a "dead" spot in 4th and 5th around (IIRC) 5mph. You're lugging the engine and the trans doesn't really know what to do. Remember, you won't get any kind of automatic shift while in SST mode.

The logic won't let you over-rev the engine, so your 3-2 shift won't happen until the computer figures the engine is at a "safe" rpm.

If I read your post correctly, it sounds like this is your problem.
 
LS4me said:
Remember, in SST the trans won't down or upshift. It will stay in the selected gear. If you're too fast for the gear, you will bump off the rev limiter. If you come to a stop in 4th or 5th, the trans will shift to 2nd as soon as you get close to a full stop. The trans has a "dead" spot in 4th and 5th around (IIRC) 5mph. You're lugging the engine and the trans doesn't really know what to do. Remember, you won't get any kind of automatic shift while in SST mode.

The logic won't let you over-rev the engine, so your 3-2 shift won't happen until the computer figures the engine is at a "safe" rpm.

If I read your post correctly, it sounds like this is your problem.
Click to expand...

Well, I do understand how the transmission functions and while I do not like many of the so called features, but this delayed, slow to shift and violent lurch is something new.

So is the hesitation when its needs to downshift from crawling along in 4th or 5th because I suddenly have the need to accelerate instead of comming to a stop.

It is interesting that several people have posted here and emailed me that I need to change my coils and plugs. Can anyone better explain this connection between the ignition coils begining to fail and the transmission logic getting screwed up????
 
Because hesitation is usually the ignition or fuel system, not a tranny.

These, type of coils can fail in stages or all at once. I have experienced both. So honestly the cheaper fix is the coils. This can possible fix your problem.

Hesitation will really screw with tranny shifting.. since the PCM controls the tranny. It did in my SHO, but I imagine more so in this car. It has been my experience if tranny is going to fail it fails... rarely give any warning. Unless it th Torgue converter (another subject)

For example when accelrate in my SHO if I am in the fuel hard and left off suddley, my PCM and shift the tranny and rock my car.... PCM looking fo WOT and it doesnt have it..... thus the little PCM glitch or screw up.

So imagine your coils are failing and the PCM looking to shift at certian RPM based on speed TPS postion and air flow, but your car performance is lacking the PCM will shift the tranny and thinking normal then compensate.... thus some crazy shift patterns.

Now I might be wrong or myabe over simplifing this, but I hope this help you understand why we say check coils. Besides it the cheaper fix.

Good luck
 
Interesting post...as I posted something about my SST shifting screwy. I too had a hesitation and a known high RPM misfire.

So...today, I replaced 4 of my coils (the entire passenger side) with new Borg-Warner replacements. I can tell you this...the car definitely idles smoother and accelerates smoother...and from what I could tell from my 15 minute test drive, the high RPM misfire is gone. Zero surging...and...it pulls hard up to redline. However...the bad news is...the SST is still wacked. In SST, from a dead stop to WOT...it still feels like it slams into a brick wall. In D4 or D5, from a dead stop to WOT, it pulls like a freight train. I only hit 80 on a 4 lane near my house and it was definitely pull strong when I backed out of it.

My next step is to replace the driver side coils and see what that does for me. At the same time, I figured I'd disconnect the battery cable and reset the PCM...just to see what that will do.

Does anyone have a diagram of where the solenoid pack is located? Is it internal to the tranny? Hopefully it is not a dealer-only servicable item.

Oh...and if the SST stays hosed, at least we should see better mileage with the coils firing properly.

Thanks,
-Pete
02LSE
 
Well I'll look into replacing the coils, but the pcm doesn't show a single misfire code.
Are there any good aftermarket brands of coils for the LS, I know the newest mustangs are starting to make the market produce HD coils for the coil on plug motors.
 
JES_LS said:
Well I'll look into replacing the coils, but the pcm doesn't show a single misfire code.
Are there any good aftermarket brands of coils for the LS, I know the newest mustangs are starting to make the market produce HD coils for the coil on plug motors.
Click to expand...

See...that's the odd thing about our LS...it never threw a code either. There was a definite high RPM misfire that you could hear in the exhaust note (dynomax ultra-flo mufflers). Also, it was getting to the point that it would surge under WOT and you could feel the misfire.

To compare...when I ran a top end engine cleaner through my Camaro SS, it caused a misfire and you could feel it...and...as expected...it threw a code. Why the LS won't is beyond me. Sorta makes me wonder how liberal the PCM is with throwing a code.

Anyway...to your question about coils. I found mine at O'Reilly autoparts and they are Borg-Warner. They sell for $37.99 ea. Which...is far cheaper than any other coil I have found. I'll be able to replace all 8 for about $322. a fraction of the cost of the Ford ones. I figure Borg-Warner is a reputable brand for other parts...as for coils...I dunno...but...I'm willing to try them.

-Pete
02LSE
 
Thanks pete, I was just comparing it to my GT's pcm which will trap a code at the drop of hat, but not turn on the MIL.

but three scan tools have not found anything wrong with anything, so I guess I'll have to invest in the coils.

Thanks for directing me to the BW coils, I might just try to get them done in the next week before I take the car on the family vacation.

I'll spend some time later today looking for HD coils.

does anyone know if the coils are the same as the ones in the 05-06 mustangs?


If this and a computer reset doesn't cure the shifting crap, then I'll be taking it off the road in sept to swap the trans.
 
to replace solenoid pack you pull the trans fluid pan then it's up in the bottom of the trans. you don't have to drop the trans but it is a messy job. what year is your ls? if it's 03 or newer with the electronic throttle that makes things even more interesting as the computer screws with the throttle A LOT during normal acceleration/shifts.
 
well mine is an 02 and I'm not going to spend my time wrenching in that trans, if it is broke then its gone. It's been a pain in my posterior since we bought the car. I just don't like it (like every other automatic I have ever owned).

as for the coils, I found some good pricing on motorcraft coils but I'm confused.
one site says that the 02 - 05 v6's use a dg-517, but another says that the 00-03's use a dg-497. Motorcraft's own site catalog only lists the 02-05 coils as dg-517, but the parts cross reference lists both of them for the long ford number.

what is the difference between the dg-497 and dg-517 coils?
 
Sorry JES_LS...I don't know the difference in the coils.

More good news about my coil swap though. Today, my wife drove the car about 100 miles and it hit 19.6 mpg. That has NEVER happened in our LS. So...I went ahead and ordered 4 more coils. As I mentioned before...even if it does not fix my trans problem...the car should get much better gas mileage.

It's hard to believe that the original coils took a crap at ~50k. I have 75k on my Camaro and it shares the coil on plug design and has NEVER had a problem with them.

-Pete
02LSE
 
Well I'm glad something seems to be helping you.
Twice today the LS did the:
call for a downshift at a safe speed,Get nothing, then the trans shifts out of gear to a neutral, then it coasts for a heartbeat as the engine drops to idle, then it slams down into the lower gear hard enough to break both rear tires loose. stabilitrack light flickers for serveral seconds, then everything seems to return to normal.
the only difference was this time it did once going from fourth down to third and then much later in the day going from third down to second.

Something is very not right with this, so I think I had better order the coils and the clutch pedal assembly tomorrow.
 
JES_LS said:
Well I'm glad something seems to be helping you.
Twice today the LS did the:
call for a downshift at a safe speed,Get nothing, then the trans shifts out of gear to a neutral, then it coasts for a heartbeat as the engine drops to idle, then it slams down into the lower gear hard enough to break both rear tires loose. stabilitrack light flickers for serveral seconds, then everything seems to return to normal.
the only difference was this time it did once going from fourth down to third and then much later in the day going from third down to second.

Something is very not right with this, so I think I had better order the coils and the clutch pedal assembly tomorrow.
Click to expand...

Sounds like the solenoid pack.
 
LS4me said:
Sounds like the solenoid pack.
Click to expand...

Great, can you give me a part number on the pack so I can price it out?
and after I drop the pan will I have and gaskets that I need to replace?
There is no way I'm taking the car to the dealer or going to them for parts (I like the little bit money I earn)

And how long will this new solenoid pack last 20K, 30K, 40K miles, or is this some new miraculously improved and never fails again repair (like the plastic intakes on my mustang gt).

I'm not going to just keep repairing transmission, I really don't like it well enough!
 
i dont have the SST tranny and i never have any problems.. i guess im lucky because it didnt come with it?? altho i would like to play with it :(
 
My tranny behaves the same way as far as downshifting... I just call it the nature of the beast. Going from 3rd to 2nd at 35 mph will chirp the tires... not a good thing... when downshifting, I always looked at the tranny as a 4 speed > 5th was 4th, 4th was 3rd, etc.

I'd start with some simple things... have the coils balance load tested at a stealership... when the engine is warmed up, this test can see which coils have more or less resistence and they'll recommend replacing the coils with higher resistence... I think.

Next step up from that is having the tranny reflashed. I thought there was a software update a long time ago and I think it's a pretty reasonable cost... hours labor maybe. people have reported positively about it's effects.

After that, time to tinker with the tranny.

Man, that just doesn't sound right.
 
mholhut said:
My tranny behaves the same way as far as downshifting... I just call it the nature of the beast. Going from 3rd to 2nd at 35 mph will chirp the tires... not a good thing... when downshifting, I always looked at the tranny as a 4 speed > 5th was 4th, 4th was 3rd, etc.
Click to expand...
Well the whole functional logic of the these downshifts is wrong. The violent engagement after letting the engine revs drop that much is totaly backwards and since the computer controls the timing, the speed and slippage of the shift it is inexcusable. It would not take of a change in the logic to fix the shifting issue. That is if it is not caused by the coils.

mholhut said:
I'd start with some simple things... have the coils balance load tested at a stealership... when the engine is warmed up, this test can see which coils have more or less resistence and they'll recommend replacing the coils with higher resistence... I think.
Click to expand...
Well since my car's never see the dealership (cue background music,... Billy Joel's "Its a matter of trust"), I don't have a way to load test the coils, besides if one is cooked then the others can't be far behind and I'm not going to keep changing them. I'm going to replace the coils, its just a matter of king and when..
mholhut said:
Next step up from that is having the tranny reflashed. I thought there was a software update a long time ago and I think it's a pretty reasonable cost... hours labor maybe. people have reported positively about it's effects.
Click to expand...
Unless there was another reflash since dec 2004, I already have the latest flash for the 2002 v6. I made the dealership I bought the car from do the reflash before I would take the car back home (I bought out my Father-In-Laws lease). Great deal, but now the transmission has come back to bite me one. That's the second time I've bought out one of his leases and had it bite me (don't ask about the 93 tracer my wife HAD to buy).
mholhut said:
After that, time to tinker with the tranny.
Click to expand...
Okay to me that means rip it out and install that manual I have on the garage floor.
mholhut said:
Man, that just doesn't sound right.
Click to expand...
LOL, leave my sexual preferences (or lack thereof) out of this. JK
 
JES_LS said:
Great, can you give me a part number on the pack so I can price it out?
and after I drop the pan will I have and gaskets that I need to replace?
There is no way I'm taking the car to the dealer or going to them for parts (I like the little bit money I earn)

And how long will this new solenoid pack last 20K, 30K, 40K miles, or is this some new miraculously improved and never fails again repair (like the plastic intakes on my mustang gt).

I'm not going to just keep repairing transmission, I really don't like it well enough!
Click to expand...

I did it about a year and 20K miles ago. So far so good. The old part was a French made part. The new one is from Bosch. The part number is xw4z-7g391-ac. Bill Jenkins has it for ~$189 at www.teamfordlv.com. Here's the link: http://www.trademotion.com/partlocator/index.cfm?action=searchCatalogOEM&siteid=214270
 
Well lets see I do about 20K mi a year in the Lincoln, so according to your results so far it will be good until next year.

Does anybody out there that has replace the solenoid pack gotten a lot of miles on the new part??
 
If you replace the solenoid pack, make sure to replace the valve cover as well (sorry no part numbers). The dealer changed my solenoid pack at about 60,000 miles and then at about 74,000 the same problems came back. Than they changed the valve cover and the solenoid pack again. Now I am on 113,000 and no tranny problems yet (knock on the wood).
 
HyeLifeLS said:
If you replace the solenoid pack, make sure to replace the valve cover as well (sorry no part numbers).
Click to expand...
I think you mean valve body, not valve cover.
 
well if I have to replace the valve body does any one here have the part number for it.

then I can price it out
 
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