Another Coil Thread (Possible Economical Solution)

[JaredI]

Hi,

I had an idea a week or so ago when contemplating changing out my ignition coils. I headed to the Pull-A-Part nearest me to investigate and look what I found.

On the left is a coil from a Lincoln Aviator, on the right an LS coil with a broken hold down tab. The 4.6 DOHC uses the coil cover to hold down the coils, so the hold down tab is absent.

With the boots removed we see how they are dimensionally very similar

And finally one with the LS boot installed

Has anyone used these coils as a replacement for their LS? I know a few guys (cammerfe) were using the 4.6 SOHC coils but stated they wouldn't fit under the coil covers because of the angled connectors.

I also remembered that they had to reverse the wires in the harness to use the 4.6 SOHC coils, I expect that these would be the same way. I know of guys on Corral.net that went from SOHC to DOHC engines in their GTs and used the same wiring harness. They didn't mention anything about reversing their coil wires so until I can find a wiring diagram for all three cars I won't know for sure but would bet the polarity is the same as the 4.6 SOHC coils.

Bottom line is MSD Makes these in a street fire set for $150 and in their regular Red version for $200.

Opinions?

Thanks alot,
Jared

 

[RigsLS]

Just to clarify, wires/leads are reversed at the connector to the coil, not within the wiring harness itself. Harness stays the same. Leads get reversed at connector. A gentle cautious process.

Question: how are you planning to defeat the non existing hold down? Is your idea that possibly the LS coil cover simular to the Aviator would hold them down in place?

Why not just grab some cheaper Accel Mustang coils, reverse the leads and run without covers. Many have ...

 

[JaredI]

Yes, I even clipped a couple off at the junkyard to practice on.

Exactly my thoughts. I was thinking about grabbing some rubber door stoppers or something similar off of something next time I was at the junkyard and epoxy them to the underside of the coil covers. Also, some had also said the hold down wasn't needed, I'm not sure about that though, that may have been because of the SOHC coil's different boot.

SOHC Mustang coils aren't cheaper, they're roughly the same price give or take a few dollars. The reason I'm interested in this is that they'll fit in the factory location and orientation and under the coil covers.

SOHC coils:
Accel: Accel 140032-8: Super Coil Ignition Coil Set | JEGS
Blaster: MSD Ignition 82428: Blaster Coil-on-Plugs 1999-2004 Ford 4.6L/5.4L SOHC 2V | JEGS
Street Fire: MSD Ignition 55128: Street Fire Ignition Coils 1998-2014 Ford 4.6L/5.4L 2-Valve | JEGS

DOHC Coils
Blaster: MSD Ford Blaster Coil-on-Plug Ignition Coil Packs 82448
Street Fire: MSD Street Fire Coils 55148
Accel: ACCEL Super Coils 140034-8

 

[grizzlyls]

Trust me, and look about a week ago for my thread Delphi Cops and you.

More Information for DELPHI GN10227

These are down to 28 bucks now, get an easy to find 5% coupon for rock auto, and honestly IMO there is no cop out there that will match it. The trouble to go through the rewire on the MSD and accel would raise the cost more (resolder new pig tails is safest)

I paid 32 bucks apiece for mine last year and worth every penny. At 26.9 mpg highway on Delphi's, my calculated cost to pay off these better cops due to performance increase is about 12000 miles. Enough said.

 

[grizzlyls]

Well maybe not enough. Just order one from Rock Auto. When you see the fit and finish and the weight of it, you will order the rest I am sure.

 

[LS-jsf]

Great deal grizzlyls. I looked around online, nothing cheaper. Here is the 5% off coupon # to use (at least for today) 5161133346169253 - Brings the price to $27.35 each.

 

[JaredI]

That's definitely a good result and the price is right on those coils. Is the short lifespan of the standard Motorcraft coils inherent to their design? I was under the impression that it was hence not considering any stock-type options.

I was looking to proven coils that weren't known to die quickly.

 

[grizzlyls]

Well, roughly 100k averages I have seen on my lincolns (and others) is by no mean short. Its external factors that kill them. Water getting into the wells, leaky valve gaskets getting oil into the wells, ignoring misfires etc.

It is true that OEM Ford used to be Visteon and much better. Since then they are now Chinese made by Standard Motor Products group. Happened about 3 years ago. Not sure if anyone has seen 100k on those units yet to see if they hold up.

When I got my car about a year ago saw the debates on here, tried to find Visteon, did a bunch of buying and testing then decided to go Delphi due to good review from my mechanic (and its GM connection).

 

[JaredI]

Hmm. Maybe I'll just buy the Delphis then.

 

[joegr]

...Is the short lifespan of the standard Motorcraft coils inherent to their design? ...

I wouldn't call 100K+ miles short. I know of no aftermarket coils that last as long as the OEM, so far. If you want longer life, you are looking in the wrong direction. I hope that grizzlyls can show that the Delphi's will last long enough compared to their lower cost before I need another set. (I am still skeptical, but Delphi is a brand that I have some respect for.)

 

[JaredI]

I wouldn't call 100K+ miles short. I know of no aftermarket coils that last as long as the OEM, so far. If you want longer life, you are looking in the wrong direction. I hope that grizzlyls can show that the Delphi's will last long enough compared to their lower cost before I need another set. (I am still skeptical, but Delphi is a brand that I have some respect for.)

It seems like everyone has the same issue with these cars eating coils left and right. It certainly gives the impression that the coils are somehow fatally flawed. Perhaps this is being overstated? People replacing them one at a time until they go through a whole set so that it just seems like every time they turn around another coil is bad? Buying Duralast coils or something? The more we talk about this the higher the probability is that I buy the Delphis.

 

[joegr]

...It certainly gives the impression that the coils are somehow fatally flawed. Perhaps this is being overstated? ...

In the beginning, they were. There was a design and/or manufacturing problem related to the epoxy they were potted with. This was further compounded by bad valve cover gaskets that were leaking oil into the plug wells where it was damaging the coil boots. The gasket problem wasn't really solved till the 04 model year, and the coils by the 05 model year.
Now, the seal on the wiper cowl at the passenger wiper is failing on more and more LSes (rotting with age). This can let water into the plug wells and kill more coils. Add to all this that the LS PCM is sensitive to RFI from marginal coils, and you can see why the coils might have the reputation that they do. Please note that coils on the 4.6L have a similar life span (100K+) and failure modes as the LS coils. The Panther folks have also learned to replace all eight when the first one fails.

 

[RigsLS]

Trust me ... The trouble to go through the rewire on the MSD and accel would raise the cost more (resolder new pig tails is safest) ...

Honestly Grizzl, if your going to attempt to sell something short onto others at the very least understand the facts. It's a simple matter of using a small scribe or watch repair screwdriver, pushing the retaining pin, pull the end of the leads backwards out the connector, reversing the two and inserting them back into the connector until they lock in place. No soldering needed. If your going to get your mechanic to do this for you I can understand how you'd consider this an additional cost. Those that would perform this themselves, would not find it anymore trouble then to pull the coil itself. Your discribing it as something difficult or not cost affective, yet it's done in minutes with no associated costs. It's merly a careful process as the connectors themselves become brittle from the heat over time.

It seems like everyone has the same issue with these cars eating coils left and right. It certainly gives the impression that the coils are somehow fatally flawed. Perhaps this is being overstated? ...

Coils are wear items, so are plugs, no coil out there lasts a life time. It's not that everyone has LS eating coil issues. It the matter of coils were replaced by the dealership under warranty from back when they recognized an issue with the internal poxy. This was resolved and the warranty called for only replacing said coil that presented a problem. This left many LS'es with uneven worn coils and plugs.

The constant complaints with respect to misfiring is easily understood once all the coils and plugs were removed and we'd look at how horrible of a mismatch it was.

Expect any car in such shape to perform perfectly? I don't think so. Remove them all, put new coils and plugs in and it gives it a fresh new life. Starts the clock at the beginning again. Try and just replace one coil here, a plug or two there and as time comes around, they'd all complain about how horrible the OEM coils are.

They are wear items like any other coil.
Of course unevenly worn parts are going to give anyone problems. This is normal.

The OEM coils are proven last at least 100k when changed out all at once along with good quality plugs and proper gap.

Internal heat is what breaks them down, if anything lay blame on coil covers instead which traps all this thermal heat.

They are pricey, no doubt. Over priced would be a more of an accurate statement. Finding alternatives is great and all but durability has the be proven to validate expenses.

Good coil brands and crappy coil brands out there. Experimenting is key and experience tells us the Ford OEM coils although expensive have a track record as performers. Other good top name brand coils follow, more affordable yet may require a slight tweak here and there to fit or function. Certainly a very reasonable option for the DIY'er. Running without covers has also not presented much of a problem to many, including myself on my 04 LSE for just over a year now.

 

[LS-jsf]

So is there any real downside to removing the coil cover to help with the heat issue? I guess I'm asking which is the best option, on or off?

 

[RigsLS]

Dust dirt mud water

Dust mostly, technically water shouldn't splash that high up into the engine bay but the concerns are the leaking wiper arm cowl seal as well as the aging brittle washer fluid fittings.

Keep an eye on it and don't play in deep puddles. Some will suggest it's not a good idea. I had mine on, then off, then on and back off, new Visteon coils are fine but get a little dusty.

<shrugs>

 

[RigsLS]

Re&Re - Wiper Arm Shaft Cowl Seal

Water and washer fluid can find its way down into the plug wells.

Oil in the wells is not related to the covers unless you dump a quart down there on purpose. Oil in wells shorting out coils is from bad faulty rubber O rings which are part of a VC gasket job. But you knew that already I'd imagine.

 

[RigsLS]

Actually even with the covers on, water will find its way down there.

Guess that was the original point.
Small gasket line on inside of covers is not tight to VC, not enough bolts to ensure even clamping force.

... plus, you know water ... it'll get there, eventually.

 

[RigsLS]

... 26.9 mpg highway on Delphi's, my calculated cost to pay off these better cops due to performance increase ...

26.9 is normal, very achievable with any other coil. Get that on longer runs all highway also. Not too convinced that coil contributes much with mileage. Detonation is detonation. Good clean spark is important no doubt. Efficient air/fuel trim, weight and aerodynamics plays largest role.

 

[cammerfe]

A look into the past will show that I advocated Accel coils starting in about '07. One of the benefits of the Accel (Mustang) coils is that the boot is shaped with a flange at the top that seals the top of the plug well. No problem with water getting in to the plug and I'm such a heretic I've had the entire cowl plastic off and laying in the back seat for the last several months.

KS

 

[grizzlyls]

Just pointing out that OEM motorcraft is not what it was as of ~3 years ago. I checked out the new versions as best I could and while they may be good, I would state that you cant compare them to the Visteon OEM we all loved.

I can only speak to my experiences, but one of the main reasons I did not chase down MSD/Accel etc path is seeing a handful of posts here about breaking the connectors whilst trying to do the change over. My mechanic did four resolders on pigtails due to screw ups by past mechs, and to me since it took him little time it seems an easier way which I would use if I went the MSD route.

As far as improved performance, I am basing that on the best I ever saw in the OEM 2002, and what others have shared on less than ideal cops (cheaper versions). I believe that beyond Delphi or Motorcraft and the Mustang alts the performance could lack due to lower quality.

Keep in mind, that current Chinese (SMP) OEM is still probably not high mileage proven yet. Anyone out there that bought a set right after the conversion that could share info on them maybe? I will always be glad to update on the delphis as time goes by.

This is the video that made me decide to give them a shot:

 

[JaredI]

A look into the past will show that I advocated Accel coils starting in about '07. One of the benefits of the Accel (Mustang) coils is that the boot is shaped with a flange at the top that seals the top of the plug well. No problem with water getting in to the plug and I'm such a heretic I've had the entire cowl plastic off and laying in the back seat for the last several months.

KS

Did you make custom hold-downs, re-orient them, or just let them sit there loose?