Alarm Installed, now have codes.

[FrankLS]

So I just recently got a viper alarm installed on my LS. Took a few days. The "professionals" that installed it just didnt seam to get it right so took them a while. My car is now shooting some codes. They tried but the alarm install is nothing like i was hoping itd be.

P2067 Fuel Level Sensor 2 Circuit Low Voltage

P0462 Poor Electrical Connection at the Fuel level ascending unit

Has anyone had any experience with these codes. My car runs well, my fuel gauge is accurate. Disconecting the battery did not solve issue. I cleared the codes once like the dealership suggested but then they came back. Before i make a trip to the dealership and pay their $100 diagnostic fee, can these be solved any other way.

I also have a relay under the dash that makes noises everytime i open or close the door when the vehicle is on. According the shop that installed the alarm, not even Viper could tell them how to fix this problem. Thanks in advance.

 

[FALECF4]

I'm no expert on this but I know some of the other guys on here have Vipers installed and I've read that you should take it to someone that is familiar with the LS because of possible conflict with the LS electrical system. Sounds like the "pros" you took it to didn't know this car! Did you search for any of the Viper threads to see what things should be watched out for?

 

[FrankLS]

I did a search and read on how some ppl with these codes have trouble with their gas gauge reading. My gauge is good and has given me no problems.

There is this one thread of a guy who decided to uninstall his alarm due to these 2 codes.

I really dont want to uninstall it eventhough having the viper alarm is a pain. I paid a pretty buck but ill do what i have to do to make my car whole again

 

[rwurst918]

I got an idea. Take it back and tell them to do it right or fix ur car and then do it right. If they refuse, court will favor you in the end.

 

[FrankLS]

i have thought about that. but i seriously dont have time to persue something like that. nothing would make me happier than to get what i paid for. If the dealership can tell me that it was the alarm install that triggered these codes then i may.

 

[1LoudLS]

is there a remote start along with this alarm?

is this a second gen LS


if these are both right, ive got money on the installer not using enough extra relays to power the ignition harness up,

this may also be the case for 1st gens but im not 100% sure.

all viper remote start systems have 2 ignition wire and 1 accessory wire (the second ignition can be programmed to acc, but thats not important here)to simulate turning the key switch, the LS has 2 ignition and 2 accessory wires, most times you dont have to power up every circuit for the remote start to function. usually all of the ignition wires do need to be powered up since these are what run the motor (older fords had 3 or 4, but some of them where common) and you usually only need to power up the accessory circuit that drives the climate controls.

with my LS, i didn't want the radio to come on when i remote started the car in case i left the radio turn up when i got out of the car, so I intentionally did not power up the extra acc circuit with a separate relay. the weird part is that it wouldn't throw two codes until the fourth time i remote started the car, no matter how many times the car was started with the key in between. so it was a little tricky to figure out because i used the RS every day, but the codes was only popping up every couple of days. and it was the Fuel Level Sensor and something else about fuel system. with the way new cars are and the way everything i the car talks to each other, every circuit need to powered up.

i never had this problem with my 1st gen, but i cant remember if if i added the relay to the system, the LS needs a few extra relays for so many other things. and i had the radio controlled a different way, i had the "ground while armed" wire triggering a relay to keep power from the radio until the car was disarmed/unlocked, which is a nightmare for anybody with an AVIC. he needs to fix the problem



Frank, you need to call the shop and make sure you talk to the tech that did the install and confirm that either he did use and extra relay for the ignition harness (because there are a few other places that one could/need to use on for this car) or that he didn't so that he can fix the problem.

I also have a relay under the dash that makes noises everytime i open or close the door when the vehicle is on. According the shop that installed the alarm, not even Viper could tell them how to fix this problem.

yes thats called the good old "box of bees"

the LS's wires for the door triggers (the switches that tell the computer which doors are open) are negative trigger, but the circuit is normally closed, or ground when at rest and open when the doors are open, most cars are the opposite, and the door triggers show ground only when the doors are open.

so you must pick a new way for the alarm to know when the doors are being opened, the next best choice would be the doom light which is also negative trigger, since it comes on every time any one of the doors are opened. BUT because the LS shut off its computers after a short while, when the computer shuts off, there is a small resistance to ground that trickles through the computer and the alarm thinks that some one is breaking into the cars(the alarm will go off every time the cars computer goes to sleep)

since the resistance is not enough to trigger a relay, you have to use a relay to isolate the dome light circuit from the alarm, BUT because the dome light fades on and off very slowly, this triggers the relay on and off about 50-100 times causing the buzz in the box of bees (the box is the relay of course since its a little black square) i call it a box of bees because when everyone ask me about it, i tell them that my alarm comes with a box with bees in it that get shaken up every time the door opens, and if the door is opened and the alarm is set, the alarm will release the bees (and i dont know about you, but thats enough to make me not want to fukc with some ones car.lol)

as for fixing the problem, it depends on what system you got and when it was built.

all of the responder LE systems (5701, 5901, 5902) that were built in mid to late 2010 till now, have a setting where the door trigger detector circuit in the alarm can be set to normally closed and just hooked up to the individual door triggers(they will also need to be diode isolated(if your tech doesn't know what this means then he shouldn't be working on it)) without the relays.

if your system is an older responder, or any other system, then your stuck with it. what i did was get the smallest micro relay i could find, and wrap it up in about 7-10 layers of dynamat extreme. (i also ran all of the wires through the fire wall so it can barely be heard from inside the car)

sorry for the long winded techsplanation, but i hope it helps

 

[1LoudLS]

TAKE IT BACK TO THE INSTALLER BEFORE YOU TAKE IT TO THE DEALER

most of the time, dealers (at least around here) will not even test the car out if it has an aftermarket system on it, they will tell you that its the problem with out really looking at it or tell you that you have to pay them to remove the system before you can pay them again to actually try to fix the car.

then when the problem turns out to be unrelated, now you have a system that you have paid for that has been ripped out, and your going to have to pay to have it put in again.

Ive had a few people over the years that have gone right to the dealer instead of having us check it out first, some of the times they even get the dealer to pay.

 

[FrankLS]

is there a remote start along with this alarm?

is this a second gen LS


if these are both right, ive got money on the installer not using enough extra relays to power the ignition harness up,

this may also be the case for 1st gens but im not 100% sure.

all viper remote start systems have 2 ignition wire and 1 accessory wire (the second ignition can be programmed to acc, but thats not important here)to simulate turning the key switch, the LS has 2 ignition and 2 accessory wires, most times you dont have to power up every circuit for the remote start to function. usually all of the ignition wires do need to be powered up since these are what run the motor (older fords had 3 or 4, but some of them where common) and you usually only need to power up the accessory circuit that drives the climate controls.

with my LS, i didn't want the radio to come on when i remote started the car in case i left the radio turn up when i got out of the car, so I intentionally did not power up the extra acc circuit with a separate relay. the weird part is that it wouldn't throw two codes until the fourth time i remote started the car, no matter how many times the car was started with the key in between. so it was a little tricky to figure out because i used the RS every day, but the codes was only popping up every couple of days. and it was the Fuel Level Sensor and something else about fuel system. with the way new cars are and the way everything i the car talks to each other, every circuit need to powered up.

i never had this problem with my 1st gen, but i cant remember if if i added the relay to the system, the LS needs a few extra relays for so many other things. and i had the radio controlled a different way, i had the "ground while armed" wire triggering a relay to keep power from the radio until the car was disarmed/unlocked, which is a nightmare for anybody with an AVIC. he needs to fix the problem



Frank, you need to call the shop and make sure you talk to the tech that did the install and confirm that either he did use and extra relay for the ignition harness (because there are a few other places that one could/need to use on for this car) or that he didn't so that he can fix the problem.





yes thats called the good old "box of bees"

the LS's wires for the door triggers (the switches that tell the computer which doors are open) are negative trigger, but the circuit is normally closed, or ground when at rest and open when the doors are open, most cars are the opposite, and the door triggers show ground only when the doors are open.

so you must pick a new way for the alarm to know when the doors are being opened, the next best choice would be the doom light which is also negative trigger, since it comes on every time any one of the doors are opened. BUT because the LS shut off its computers after a short while, when the computer shuts off, there is a small resistance to ground that trickles through the computer and the alarm thinks that some one is breaking into the cars(the alarm will go off every time the cars computer goes to sleep)

since the resistance is not enough to trigger a relay, you have to use a relay to isolate the dome light circuit from the alarm, BUT because the dome light fades on and off very slowly, this triggers the relay on and off about 50-100 times causing the buzz in the box of bees (the box is the relay of course since its a little black square) i call it a box of bees because when everyone ask me about it, i tell them that my alarm comes with a box with bees in it that get shaken up every time the door opens, and if the door is opened and the alarm is set, the alarm will release the bees (and i dont know about you, but thats enough to make me not want to fukc with some ones car.lol)

as for fixing the problem, it depends on what system you got and when it was built.

all of the responder LE systems (5701, 5901, 5902) that were built in mid to late 2010 till now, have a setting where the door trigger detector circuit in the alarm can be set to normally closed and just hooked up to the individual door triggers(they will also need to be diode isolated(if your tech doesn't know what this means then he shouldn't be working on it)) without the relays.

if your system is an older responder, or any other system, then your stuck with it. what i did was get the smallest micro relay i could find, and wrap it up in about 7-10 layers of dynamat extreme. (i also ran all of the wires through the fire wall so it can barely be heard from inside the car)

sorry for the long winded techsplanation, but i hope it helps

yeah my car is an 06 and im using the Viper 5902 which has remote start. It seams like a lot of the problems you are describing, the shop encountered. First they couldnt set the doors to work with the alarm. Then the remote start did not start when the vehicle was locked. It would simply trigger the alarm. Then whenever i would set the viper alarm, it would set off every 30 or so minutes.
After a few days it seams to all be working properly except for the "box of bee's sound" and the codes.
So you placed the noisly relay in you engine compartment after the dynamat, Or just closer to the firewall? I know its only a noise and in no way affects the operation of the alarm but i paid a good penny on the alarm and install and wanted it done to my liking.
I was not pleased with the work that the shop did so after the 4th day of the install the shop owner and i exchanged a few words and so i do not want to go back for any other work. He told me if I had any problems i could return but it was probably all said just to try and ease the tension.

So what your basically saying is that i will need more relays to fix the problem with the codes im getting?

Im hoping that with your thorough explanation of the probable causes and spending a bit more cash with another shop i may be able to fix the problem im having with the codes. Or.... you could move to Az and make the few ls owners down here a hell of a lot more happier. Oh yeah and theres no such thing as winter/summer tires and rims down here.

Thanks for your explanation. Im happy we have tech savy guys like you to inform guys like me.

 

[Alax7]

Nice explanation josh. I new the "box of beez'' was the relay but I just thought it was a viper relay that was made to do that noise. I didn't know it made it because of the fading lights. I got use to it on mine now, but to fix this you just need to use a micro relay or you just move it out of the cabn so the noise wouln't be heard?

 

[1LoudLS]

It seams like a lot of the problems you are describing, the shop encountered.

yea, that shows that the shop has never worked on an LS before (or most jags, and all new lincolns as they are pretty much the same) this is why its so important to find a tech who actually has done the work before on that specific car

i would definitely print this out and take it to the guys at the shop so then they know what they need to fix, i would tell them that because of all of the problems you have been having, that they need to compensate you for your time, and the perfect compensation would be to have them hook up the system so that it controls the windows from the remote, and since the car already does the work, there is no need for any extra parts, just five minutes of extra labor, all they need to do is to tap the aux channel one wire in to the lock wire from the alarm (right at the brain and long before it goes into the door)and program it to "latched @ 20 seconds" they will have to use two diodes to isolate both wires from each other, then they will have to do the same thing to AUX channel 2 and the unlock wire. AUX 1 rolls up all of the windows, and AUX 2 rolls down all of the windows.

So you placed the noisly relay in you engine compartment after the dynamat,

yea, the dynamat wasn't enough alone (for me at least) so i extended the wires and ran them through the fire wall and its just zip tied to a harness on the other side.

So what your basically saying is that i will need more relays to fix the problem with the codes im getting?

yes, i just checked the shop software and it looks like there is only one ignition wire but three accessory wires,

ive got money that not all three accessory wires are powered up, there should be a pink/white, a pink/yellow, and a yellow wire that all need to be energized and this should remedy the problem

Im hoping that with your thorough explanation of the probable causes and spending a bit more cash with another shop i may be able to fix the problem im having with the codes.

i'm not going to lie, i would be very weary of working on another shops install, especially since they had so many problems, there is just too much risk that the first shop could have done a sh!tty job, and just having the second shop work on it could cause more problems (for instance, they could have done a poor job insulating a wire and when somebody tugs on it just a little, it can ground out and cause an expensive repair bill) also having a second shop work on the car, will probably void the warranty from the first shop, which you may need with all of the problems you have been having.

i would also take it back, so at least the tech will finally be able to get it right, and from now on, he would not be screwing up anymore LS's

as far as the alarm going off every time the car was remote started, they did not run the "factory alarm disarm" wire into the drivers door. to disarm the factory alarm right before it attempts to start the car, the car thinks that somebody is trying to steal it.

Or.... you could move to Az and make the few ls owners down here a hell of a lot more happier. Oh yeah and theres no such thing as winter/summer tires and rims down here. .

oh lord no, ive been to phonix, tempe, and masa. there is just too much damn dust blowing through the air


i also have a little test for you to do to see how throughout of a job they did, or if they just got it done quick and dirty, roll down the drivers window then lock/arm the alarm, wait about 15 seconds and reach through the window and pop the hood, walk around and open the hood, if the alarm didn't do off, then they didn't either hook up to the factory hood trigger (preferred) or add a tilt switch to the hood. this is a major safety concern, because there need to be a way for the system to know when the hood is open so that the remote start can not operate while someone is working on the motor, and as a secondary issue, the hood is not being monitored by the alarm.

now reset the alarm, and go and open the trunk with the key after the alarm has been set and see if opening it will set of the alarm, if it doesn't do off, then they didn't run the trunk trigger all the way to the back of the car and tap into the trunk light, what the point of an alarm if it not going to monitor the whole car?

but to fix this you just need to use a micro relay or you just move it out of the cabn so the noise wouln't be heard?

i started with a micro relay, because i figured smaller parts inside must be quieter(not really sure if they were), but its not as big to hide with a ton of dynamat around it, and the dynamat helped out a lot, but then i relocated it under the hood to get it as far away as possible

 

[Alax7]

Cool thanks. I'll have to try that out

 

[FrankLS]

So I went ahead and did the test as you mentioned. I locked it, waited, pulled the hood release but only the factory alarm went off. The viper alarm only went off when I actually disengaged the hood lever. I noticed that the alarm pin was loose so with a few minutes or work I know I can tighten and adjust the pin to set off the viper alarm when desired.

I locked the car, waited, opened the trunk and nothing happened! I remmember one of those many nights when they were trying to get the alarm on properly I noticed that the trunk trigger was constanly being displayed on the keyfob. They later told me they had fixed the faulty trigger. Well it stopped issuing a trunk trigger probably because its disconnected altogether!

So I'm not very hapy. I paid for an expensive alarm and it operates like a low grade avital.
I know they tried pretty hard but this is ridiculous. They spent overtime a few night on the car and I appreciated their effort but I'm not very happy.

Oh yeah so I decided to test out the proximity sensor now that I had the car was locked and window open. Fail!! I was halfway in the window waving my arms and nothing. Another item to the list of this horrible install.

I was hoping the shop that would install the alarm could become familiar with my car and i could keep going to them for my long list of electrical and audio mods. I dont think this is the shop I'd like to trust my LS for any further work.

 

[Villalta]

So I just recently got a viper alarm installed on my LS. Took a few days. The "professionals" that installed it just didnt seam to get it right so took them a while.

When I had mine installed the guys at BB told me they had done like seven LS's before mine and it took them about 5 Hrs. You should find a reputable place and have then do it. Hope you get this resolved

 

[FrankLS]

Im actually thinking about emailing the intaller a link to this thread so he can maybe understand the LS a bit more and be ready in case of another LS comes his way.